Miliant Islamists really DO hate freedom...

[Admiral_K]

On Thursday, the radical Ansar al-Sunnah Army (search) and two other insurgent groups issued a statement warning that democracy was un-Islamic. Democracy could lead to passing un-Islamic laws, such as permitting homosexual marriage, if the majority or people agreed to it, the statement said.

"Democracy is a Greek word meaning the rule of the people, which means that the people do what they see fit," said the statement. "This concept is considered apostasy and defies the belief in one God — Muslims' doctrine."

Ansar al-Sunnah earlier posted a manifesto on its Web site saying democracy amounts to idolizing human beings. Thursday's joint statement — also signed by the Islamic Army in Iraq and the Mujahedeen Army — reiterated the threat that "anyone who accepts to take part in this dirty farce will not be safe."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,143010,00.html

Seems pretty clear to me. The Bush administration line about these groups "hating freedom" isn't without base. They aren't against democratic elections because of the American occuption. They are against democratic elections because they believe democracy is a crime against God.

[HemlockGrey]

Yes, but what popular support for them exists does so due to other factors.

[Aaron]

Now this is my opinion mind you. But if the Islamic people in the Middle East truely understood what kind of government these fanatics want, would they be so gung ho about it? Why would you willingly sign away your freedom for religous oppression, if the Taliban proved anything in Afghanistan it's that religious government doesn't make people happy.

[Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba]

I doubt these fanatical armies actually garner as much support as would be thought with this.

[Admiral_K]

I've got to believe that most people in their heart of hearts over there aren't supporting terrorists. They may be supporting them vocally, but if the choice is to do that or be killed, I don't blame many of them for doing so.

[Tribun]

Why do you think the radicals didn't any more have a strong foothold in Afghanistan? Because people had lived through that horror for some years, clearly showing them what the wish for a abolute Islamic dictatorship can have for consequences.

Obviously they can only learn that the hard way.....

[The Third Man]

Freedom != democracy

[Chmee]

Militant theists of every persuasion hate democratic choice, because they have The Answer ... every other answer/choice is wrong (actually Sin) so a system that allows Sinful choices is of course undesireable. Why would militant Islam vary from this formula?

[Chmee]

Why do you think the radicals didn't any more have a strong foothold in Afghanistan? Because people had lived through that horror for some years, clearly showing them what the wish for a abolute Islamic dictatorship can have for consequences.

Obviously they can only learn that the hard way.....

Historically, Afghanistan was one of the most tolerant Islamic societies around, because of the long history of multicultural influences brought by sitting on such important trade routes.

The only way the Talib ever came to power was because the country was so screwed up by the greed, corruption and rape of the warlords in the civil war following the ouster of the Russians, that the people would take *anybody* who gave them a semblance of law and order.

Unfortunately, now that the Talib are out and the warlords are back in, rape and drug production are back through the roof .... gonna take a while to get back to that equilibrium of being a tolerant multicultural society, if it ever happens. The West really screwed the pooch on abandoning the Afghans after getting the Russians out.

[Admiral_K]

Freedom != democracy

President Bush has been openly criticized and made fun of because he protrayed these people as being "enemies of democracy" and "hating freedom". After all, who could possibly hate freedom and democracy? No, people argued, it must be America's policys and that we "just want the oil" that is causing them to rise up against us. I too felt that portraying these people as "hating freedom" was a little overly dramatic. However, based on the statements by these groups I'm forced to conclude that Mr Bush was pretty much right on this issue.

Freedom != Democracy you say?

Depends on your definition of freedom. If you believe "freedom" is being able to do whatever you want whenever you want, then Anarchy is what you want.

However, if you wish to take the traditional American view of "freedom" then that is enshrined by Democracy. It is the freedom of the people to choose rather than have things chosen for them such as their religion and leaders. Thats what President Bush means when he talks about freedom. And apparently, thats what these groups hate and fear.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I, for one, applaud these millitant Muslims, for having the testicles to claim that they are fundamentalist, and that they believe all their holy writs to be entirely true, and yet not turn around and profess that a form of government that is contrary to the Bible's instructions to be the "Right One".

[fgalkin]

I, for one, applaud these millitant Muslims, for having the testicles to claim that they are fundamentalist, and that they believe all their holy writs to be entirely true, and yet not turn around and profess that a form of government that is contrary to the Bible's instructions to be the "Right One".

Yes, and now we can bomb the shit out of them and kill them like the fundie scum they are.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Axis Kast]

Many in the Arab world cling to terrorist organizations because it endows them with a sense of dignity - of taking a stand against what they consider the most visible representations of their problems. There are "true believers," and then there are true belivers - and the later provide the popular support for the much smaller core of deranged fundamentalists.

[Durandal]

Seems pretty clear to me. The Bush administration line about these groups "hating freedom" isn't without base. They aren't against democratic elections because of the American occuption. They are against democratic elections because they believe democracy is a crime against God.

Well done, retard. You've taken the criticism completely out of context and twisted its meaning. The fact that fundamentalist Muslims want their own governments to be Islamic theocracies does not mean that they are going to attack any government which is not an Islamic theocracy, nor does it mean they necessarily care.

Do they like the traditional Western-style democracy? Of course not. Is that why they hate the United States so much? Wake up and get a clue, retard. They reserve special disdain for the United States because of our fanatical support of Israel and our culturally imperialist actions in the Middle East. This is perfectly in-line with the Qur'an's teachings. They don't give a shit about your way of government unless they think they're being attacked by you. And here's a special bulletin for Admiral_K: They do think we're attacking them. Not in a military sense necessarily, but in a cultural sense. They don't like us because we're spreading our Western traditions which go against everything they believe in. That's why they're mad.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Ansar al-Sunnah earlier posted a manifesto on its Web site saying democracy amounts to idolizing human beings.

For some reason, it feels as if coincidentally that most major religious are in direct contradiction with Humanism. Why must human beings must always be considered such trash?

[Petrosjko]

For some reason, it feels as if coincidentally that most major religious are in direct contradiction with Humanism. Why must human beings must always be considered such trash?

Because that creates a need for a caste of individuals to guide you and intercede upon your behalf with the divine, in whatever form it takes. Thus allowing otherwise useless people to be gainfully employed as preachers/priests/whatever.

[Chmee]

They don't like us because we're spreading our Western traditions which go against everything they believe in. That's why they're mad.

You mean they don't like porn and fast-food obesity? Closed-minded bastards!

[Pint0 Xtreme]

For some reason, it feels as if coincidentally that most major religious are in direct contradiction with Humanism. Why must human beings must always be considered such trash?

Because that creates a need for a caste of individuals to guide you and intercede upon your behalf with the divine, in whatever form it takes. Thus allowing otherwise useless people to be gainfully employed as preachers/priests/whatever.

Non sequitur. I don't see how viewing humanity in a more positive light necessitates religious authority on certain individuals.

[Durandal]

Religious beliefs and a negative view of humanity aren't mutually inclusive. Buddhism and Hinduism view life as a quest for enlightenment and wisdom. Does this imply that human beings are not, as present, as enlightened or as wise as they could be? Sure, but that's not so much negative as a statement of fact.

The question I think you're trying to ask is why religions like Christianity, which have a decided disdain for humanity, are so popular. I'd say it's because they're written like fairy tales and include lots of drama. If you can avoid temptation to commit harmless acts like premarital sex, you must have strong willpower, so you're special and chosen. It's a way for someone to distinctify himself from the unwashed masses.

[Petrosjko]

Non sequitur. I don't see how viewing humanity in a more positive light necessitates religious authority on certain individuals.

I'm saying that it's in the interests of religious hierarchy for people to feel inherently sinful in order to increase the influence of said religion.

If you view all religion as human-created mythos, as I do, then you can critically examine their actions and structures under the notion of 'who profits by this?'

[Pint0 Xtreme]

The question I think you're trying to ask is why religions like Christianity, which have a decided disdain for humanity, are so popular. I'd say it's because they're written like fairy tales and include lots of drama. If you can avoid temptation to commit harmless acts like premarital sex, you must have strong willpower, so you're special and chosen. It's a way for someone to distinctify himself from the unwashed masses.

Well, their appeal to emotion seems to be working very well. It's almost... ingenious in a sickening way.

[fgalkin]

They don't like us because we're spreading our Western traditions which go against everything they believe in. That's why they're mad.

You mean they don't like porn and fast-food obesity? Closed-minded bastards!

Yes, and treating women like human beings, not farm animals? The West is so horrible! Democratic elections? An abomination! Science? False religion! Those people are right in rejecting Western values. After all, the 7th century was a much more progressive time!

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Admiral_K]

Seems pretty clear to me. The Bush administration line about these groups "hating freedom" isn't without base. They aren't against democratic elections because of the American occuption. They are against democratic elections because they believe democracy is a crime against God.

Well done, retard. You've taken the criticism completely out of context and twisted its meaning. The fact that fundamentalist Muslims want their own governments to be Islamic theocracies does not mean that they are going to attack any government which is not an Islamic theocracy, nor does it mean they necessarily care.

Do they like the traditional Western-style democracy? Of course not. Is that why they hate the United States so much? Wake up and get a clue, retard. They reserve special disdain for the United States because of our fanatical support of Israel and our culturally imperialist actions in the Middle East. This is perfectly in-line with the Qur'an's teachings. They don't give a shit about your way of government unless they think they're being attacked by you. And here's a special bulletin for Admiral_K: They do think we're attacking them. Not in a military sense necessarily, but in a cultural sense. They don't like us because we're spreading our Western traditions which go against everything they believe in. That's why they're mad.

And a wacko leftist comes out of the woodwork to defend the militant islamists. I was wondering where you guys were.

Pretty brave of you to call someone names over the internet. Do it in real life, and you're liable to get punched in your big fucking mouth.

There is no possible way to "twist the meaning" of the following statement:
"Democracy is a Greek word meaning the rule of the people, which means that the people do what they see fit," said the statement. "This concept is considered apostasy and defies the belief in one God — Muslims' doctrine."

There isn't exactly any "grey" area there. They make no disctinction between "western democracy" or "american support of Israel". They consider the very concept of Democracy to be against Muslim doctrine. They consider "rule of the people" to be against Muslim doctrine. Its crystal clear what they are saying. If you can't see it you are an idiot.

I'm sure they don't like the spread of our culture. They HATE FREEDOM. I really don't give a fuck if it is perfectly in-line with the Qur'an's teachings or not. It is still true.

As far as our "fanatical" support of Israel goes, I'm sure they hate the fact that we are preventing their "muslim brothers" from invading and killing the lone democracy in the middle east. If Arafat hadn't been so thick skulled regarding Clinton's peace proposal, the Palestinians likely would've had their own state by now. And so long as militant islamic groups continue to use terrorist attacks, they are all but guaranteeing a pro-longed process of getting their state. But then, maybe thats what they want after all.

[Wicked Pilot]

There isn't exactly any "grey" area there. They make no disctinction between "western democracy" or "american support of Israel". They consider the very concept of Democracy to be against Muslim doctrine. They consider "rule of the people" to be against Muslim doctrine. Its crystal clear what they are saying. If you can't see it you are an idiot.

That must explain their attacks on Canada, Australia, France, and all the other democracies out there.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

Do they like the traditional Western-style democracy? Of course not. Is that why they hate the United States so much? Wake up and get a clue, retard. They reserve special disdain for the United States because of our fanatical support of Israel and our culturally imperialist actions in the Middle East. This is perfectly in-line with the Qur'an's teachings. They don't give a shit about your way of government unless they think they're being attacked by you. And here's a special bulletin for Admiral_K: They do think we're attacking them. Not in a military sense necessarily, but in a cultural sense. They don't like us because we're spreading our Western traditions which go against everything they believe in. That's why they're mad.

Translation from the idoitic language of political correctess and multi-culturalism:

Their culture sucks and many people in the region realize this and are embracing Western Culture as a result. Consequently, the religious nuts intend to force these people, at gun point, to obey their irrational dogmas.