Rocks To The Head

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-01-02 04:28pm

Recall the scene in ROTJ where Ewoks were lobbing rocks the size of their heads onto the stormtroopers below? Some (rabid) Trekkies thought stormies in a helmet wouldn't have been knocked down.

I believe Mike made a calc on his website that the rocks were about 30 pounds, IIRC, using figures for limerstone? Well, here's a real-life referent. Some idiot "Jackass" fan allowed a CAR BATTERY to be dropped on his head while wearing a helmet:

http://www.muchosucko.com/video-batterytothehead.html

Now, tthe average weight of an automotive battery is less than 40lbs. This guy doesn't look like he'll be up and dancing anytime soon...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-02 05:00pm

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-01-02 05:23pm

The fact some of the Stormtroopers tried to get back up says a lot about the armour's shock absorbing abilities as is...

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2005-01-02 05:55pm

I'm sure the helm survived. Just his neck that couldn't deal with the impact.

Hardy · Post by **Hardy** » 2005-01-02 05:55pm

I timed that fall to .67 seconds with a stopwatch. The battery therefore fell 2.2 metres. If the battery "weighs" about 20kg, then that's gotta be at least 430 Joules to the head.

Compare with a shotgun shell which has a KE of about 500-600 Joules. The battery has a lot more surface area, however.

Stormtroopers weren't simply dealing with rocks and the force of gravity. IIRC, the Ewoks were forcefully throwing the rocks onto the troopers' heads. The rocks would obviously present much less surface area to the troopers by virtue of their spherical shape.

Stormie helmets are much tougher than motorcycle helmets, I suppose.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-02 06:01pm

The fate of the Stormies vs. Ewok opposition was yet another sign of what happens to troops that serve a repressive regime like the Empire. Individual initiative and thought is discouraged, and you end up with officers who can't adapt, blindly following 'standard' orders and leading their troops to disaster.

With good officers, Stormies vs. Ewoks would have been a rerun of Pizarro vs. the Incas.

Bellator · Post by **Bellator** » 2005-01-02 06:04pm

Pizarro vs. the Incas.

Capturing the king and demanding a room filled with gold as ransom?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2005-01-02 06:04pm

Here we go again...

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-02 06:46pm

As Howedar points out...take to another topic if you have a grievance and just for the record, the Ewok were LOSING until Chewie got the AT-ST.

And this was with the Auxillary force, at their back door....with ORDERS from LORD VADER to not kill the main three officers of the enemy.

Yeah, so please...given they were not in the best conditions against a force vastly larger then their own, they held on admirablely and still were able to regroup and counter attack successfully.

Luck saved their asses, nothing else

As for on the topic...great find Poe. That's some quality shit there

.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-01-02 07:04pm

Ghost Rider wrote:As for on the topic...great find Poe. That's some quality shit there .

Thanks! Dammit, QT isn't letting me save it for some reason. Anyone have any pointers on how to do so? The actual file is here:

+http://mediax.muchosucko.com/movies/512 ... e_head.mov

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-01-02 07:43pm

Hardy wrote:I timed that fall to .67 seconds with a stopwatch. The battery therefore fell 2.2 metres. If the battery "weighs" about 20kg, then that's gotta be at least 430 Joules to the head.

Compare with a shotgun shell which has a KE of about 500-600 Joules. The battery has a lot more surface area, however.

Stormtroopers weren't simply dealing with rocks and the force of gravity. IIRC, the Ewoks were forcefully throwing the rocks onto the troopers' heads. The rocks would obviously present much less surface area to the troopers by virtue of their spherical shape.

Stormie helmets are much tougher than motorcycle helmets, I suppose.

Actually the point of interest is the momentum of the impacts, not the kinetic energy. (we know from the DK VD books and Tatooine Ghost that stormtrooper/clonetrooper armor is considered resistant/impervious to at least conventional projectile and shrapnel. This means at least a few thousand joules at a bare minimum - probably substantially more given that according to Shatterpoint that even people on backwater worlds have access to projectile weapons that fire bullets at hypersonic speeds.)

We're looking at (in other words) the helmets being struck by some 50-60 kg*m/s worth of momentum or so.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2005-01-02 07:52pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:As for on the topic...great find Poe. That's some quality shit there .
Thanks! Dammit, QT isn't letting me save it for some reason. Anyone have any pointers on how to do so? The actual file is here:

+http://mediax.muchosucko.com/movies/512 ... e_head.mov

Right click and save as the direct link (from Google or somewhere), or get QT Pro.

It costs $30 to upgrade. Or you can PM me.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-01-02 08:24pm

YT300000 wrote:Right click and save as the direct link (from Google or somewhere), or get QT Pro.

It costs $30 to upgrade. Or you can PM me.

Thanks. I've got QT Pro at home. (I'm at work right now!)

McC · Post by **McC** » 2005-01-02 09:07pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:Actually the point of interest is the momentum of the impacts, not the kinetic energy. (we know from the DK VD books and Tatooine Ghost that stormtrooper/clonetrooper armor is considered resistant/impervious to at least conventional projectile and shrapnel. This means at least a few thousand joules at a bare minimum - probably substantially more given that according to Shatterpoint that even people on backwater worlds have access to projectile weapons that fire bullets at hypersonic speeds.)

Ehh...not really. Impervious to shrapnel/bullets just means that it shrapnel/bullets won't penetrate. Both of them tend to be sharp, meaning the armor itself won't break from intense localized pressure. However, that doesn't mean that a stormtrooper isn't going to fall over by being hit with a bullet or feel pain from such an impact. The fact that the armor is attached to the body somehwere means that there's force-coupling going on.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-01-03 12:20am

i'm thinking that the ewoks have superior lbs for lbs strength to humans. it is natural for smaller creatures to be this way, since their cross-sectional muscle area is greater in proportion to their overall volume.

http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html

also note that apes have immense lbs for lbs strength (greater than any other mammal) despite their size. a female chimp has been shown to pull with 10 times her body weight on a dynamometre, and silverback gorillas are estimated to life nearly 4000 lbs.

on the other hand, there was no indication of extreme strength in the Ewoks on film. at least not of ape-like proportions.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-01-03 02:38am

on the other hand, there was no indication of extreme strength in the Ewoks on film.

There was at least one case of a Stormtrooper being knocked violently back by an ewok club. (When Leia and Han are pinned down by three or four troopers firing behind a big log, a party of ewoks ambush them. The trooper in question is one the far right on the screen when they hit. Made me laugh when I first saw it.)

at least not of ape-like proportions.

True, but still impressive for their size.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-01-03 02:43am

The fact that the Ewoks were able to manhandle the rocks in question up into the trees to drop speaks of great strength by itself, even if we don't get into the log traps and so forth.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-01-03 10:02pm

if we had more knowledge about their diet, we could make more conclusive statements.

simply put: if they eat a ton, they're strong. gorillas spend nearly all of their time eating, resulting in high-performance muscles.

well, all apes appear to be strong for their size. this may have something to do with their arboreal nature. they need to be able to easily heft their own weight through the trees.

this may not be the case for ewoks. they don't have a brachiator's build. does anyone know how they traverse the tree-tops?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-03 10:06pm

unbeataBULL wrote:if we had more knowledge about their diet, we could make more conclusive statements.

simply put: if they eat a ton, they're strong. gorillas spend nearly all of their time eating, resulting in high-performance muscles.

well, all apes appear to be strong for their size. this may have something to do with their arboreal nature. they need to be able to easily heft their own weight through the trees.

this may not be the case for ewoks. they don't have a brachiator's build. does anyone know how they traverse the tree-tops?

Ummm...we know they are strong for their size...in comparison to humans.

We saw objective proof of this...who cares if they sustain themselves off of sunlight.

We saw how big they were, what they hefted, and what was the likely force they threw those objects at.

What are you saying...they are weaker then what?

Seriously we have objective proof of their minimal strength and we know of their accomplishments, so saying diet makes a more conclusive statement is a pointless red herring.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-01-04 12:33pm

unbeataBULL wrote: this may not be the case for ewoks. they don't have a brachiator's build. does anyone know how they traverse the tree-tops?

There's a little bit where one of them swings on a vine, when they're taking Luke, Han et al to the village. I reckon they started down on the surface, and moved up to the trees in order to avoid predators and all that.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2005-01-04 01:24pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
unbeataBULL wrote: this may not be the case for ewoks. they don't have a brachiator's build. does anyone know how they traverse the tree-tops?
There's a little bit where one of them swings on a vine, when they're taking Luke, Han et al to the village. I reckon they started down on the surface, and moved up to the trees in order to avoid predators and all that.

They make me think more of raccoons and other animals that forage both on the ground and in the trees. Small build, stubby but agile fingers, cunning and clever with problem-solving skills.

Darwin · Post by **Darwin** » 2005-01-04 03:47pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
Ummm...we know they are strong for their size...in comparison to humans.

We saw objective proof of this...who cares if they sustain themselves off of sunlight.

We saw how big they were, what they hefted, and what was the likely force they threw those objects at.

What are you saying...they are weaker then what?

Seriously we have objective proof of their minimal strength and we know of their accomplishments, so saying diet makes a more conclusive statement is a pointless red herring.

We know thay can throw around head-sized rocks like they were made of foam-rubber.

Seriously though, I think Ewoks must be stronger than they're given credit for.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-04 03:49pm

Darwin wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Ummm...we know they are strong for their size...in comparison to humans.

We saw objective proof of this...who cares if they sustain themselves off of sunlight.

We saw how big they were, what they hefted, and what was the likely force they threw those objects at.

What are you saying...they are weaker then what?

Seriously we have objective proof of their minimal strength and we know of their accomplishments, so saying diet makes a more conclusive statement is a pointless red herring.
We know thay can throw around head-sized rocks like they were made of foam-rubber.

Seriously though, I think Ewoks must be stronger than they're given credit for.

Hey, let's not knock the poor dwarves that had to be used in those suits, I for one would not like to be in the middle of the forest with bugs wearing a fur suit

.

And yeah, they have to be rather strong...if for nothing to be able to literally construct some of the equipment they did.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-01-04 03:49pm

I can't tell for certain, but how many Ewoks carried Chewbacca?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-01-04 03:51pm

Ghost Rider wrote:And yeah, they have to be rather strong...if for nothing to be able to literally construct some of the equipment they did.

I'm wondering how much they constructed, versus how much the Rebel commandos constructed?