NASA, get a fucking clue...

[Admiral Valdemar]

I think the OP misses the fact that most Space Elevator concepts are planned for decades from now, at the earliest. The seed money is to find out as much as possible, now, long before it's actually possible... ensuring that when it IS possible we have a wider body of knowledge to draw from.

I mean, really... $75,000 isn't going to build a new Saturn.

And if you REALLY want a feasible, cheap, and powerful heavy-lifting system, what about the old Omega nuclear-propulsion idea?

Foolish man. It has nuclear in the title and is doomed to becoming a doomsday weapon that will end the world, not an efficient and cutting edge propulsion system.

As for the space elevators, there's so many variations on the same theme, that it'll take a while just to see which is the cheapest and most practical. And that's forgetting the political and ecological issues that will rear their ugly heads.

[SirNitram]

And if you REALLY want a feasible, cheap, and powerful heavy-lifting system, what about the old Omega nuclear-propulsion idea?

What's Omega? Nuclear thermal, nuclear electric, or nuclear pulse? Or something else entirely?

[phongn]

I think he meant to say "Orion."

[SirNitram]

I think he meant to say "Orion."

Orion lacks the 'Cheap' factor. Yea, pound for pound it's good, but the material costs I've seen for a realistic Orion vehicle is billions of dollars, with billions of that going to the pulse bombs. Then there's the costs of shutting down the entire sky on your way up.

[Sam Or I]

This maybe just a silly thought from some one who is not educated in rocket science, but What if the cable snapped near the top? How long is this cable, how much does it weigh, how fast would it be slamming into the earth. Everyone who lived along the equator (in a geosynchronous orbit) is now cut in half by the space cable that fell to earth. Intresting news story.

[Crayz9000]

This maybe just a silly thought from some one who is not educated in rocket science, but What if the cable snapped near the top? How long is this cable, how much does it weigh, how fast would it be slamming into the earth. Everyone who lived along the equator (in a geosynchronous orbit) is now cut in half by the space cable that fell to earth. Intresting news story.

You'd have to cut it fairly low. The tension from the upper mass of the cable would hold it up.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Personally I relish the maxed-out Energia more than a modernized Saturn V. But perhaps a from-scratch vehicle built from a modernized F-1A would be better.

How about the maxed-out Saturn V designs? Puny Vulkan is no match for the might of Saturn

175 tons vs. 118, bitch.

[BenRG]

Suddenly, I have an image in my head of a mutated super-heavy Saturn-V (call it the Saturn-X?). A standard-configuaration Saturn with two 'outrigger' first stage boosters in the style of the current Delta-4 Heavy. Would such a thing even fly? I mean, it must be cutting the power/weight ratio pretty close.

The Energia is the great missed opportunity of the old Soviet space programe, IMHO. If NASA were to buy the technology from the Russians, it would end their super-heavy-lift problems in more or less one stroke.

Energia was derived from their moon rocket, the N1, with the bugs that made all of them blow up on the pad ironed out, of course. I wonder what could have been made with the Apollo/Saturn technology after 30 or 40 years. I seem to remember that in 'Mars', Stephen Baxter actually designed a Skylab/Saturn-V derived Mars exploration ship (via Venus), and that was practical even before you replaced the J2 in the boosters with NERVA-2 nuclear thermal engines.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Suddenly, I have an image in my head of a mutated super-heavy Saturn-V (call it the Saturn-X?). A standard-configuaration Saturn with two 'outrigger' first stage boosters in the style of the current Delta-4 Heavy. Would such a thing even fly? I mean, it must be cutting the power/weight ratio pretty close.

Sounds stupid. Better would be the 8 F-1A-engined Nova that NASA had on the drawing board.

Energia was derived from their moon rocket, the N1, with the bugs that made all of them blow up on the pad ironed out, of course.

No it wasn't, it was developed from a post-Proton concept, Vulkan (not the same thing as the max-configuration of Energia) using hypergolics.

[phongn]

175 tons vs. 118, bitch.

Saturn V-24(L): Initial stage 5x F-1A + 4x2 F-1A strap-on for 435 tons to LEO

Saturn V-4X(U): 20x F-1A for 527 tons to 486km orbit (technically four core Saturn V-25(S) lashed together )

[Illuminatus Primus]

Strap-on F-1s?

Where'd you get this stuff from? Direct me.

[phongn]

Strap-on F-1s?

Where'd you get this stuff from? Direct me.

Welcome to the Saturn V proposals

[Ma Deuce]

175 tons vs. 118, bitch.

Saturn V-24(L): Initial stage 5x F-1A + 4x2 F-1A strap-on for 435 tons to LEO

Saturn V-4X(U): 20x F-1A for 527 tons to 486km orbit (technically four core Saturn V-25(S) lashed together )

RAR!! The UR-700M could have lifted 750 tons to LEO .

[Sea Skimmer]

175 tons vs. 118, bitch.

UR-700M = 750 tons to LOE.

[phongn]

Curses, not even lashing together four Saturns Vs can beat the UR-700M monster. Obviously I need to emulate them and have a core 8x F-1A Nova booster surrounded by multiple 5x F-1A Saturns all stretched to 600ft to defeat this new menace.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Curses, not even lashing together four Saturns Vs can beat the UR-700M monster. Obviously I need to emulate them and have a core 8x F-1A Nova booster surrounded by multiple 5x F-1A Saturns all stretched to 600ft to defeat this new menace.

How about four expanded Saturn VIII's lashed together?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

How about four expanded Saturn VIII's lashed together?

With eight SRBs optional and a NERVA third stage for dirct lunar orbit insertions, I might add.

[Typhonis 1]

Given the size of a Saturn 5s first stage all the subsequent space shots would need to do is refurbishe them , hook em together and hey instant space station and its recycled too.

[Tommy J]

Linky


What a massive waste of money. All of this optimistic predictions forget
something; that you are going to need something to lift all of this pie
in the sky stuff into space, and well, the Shuttle is a piece of shit; all
this seed money would be better spent on reviving the Block II run
of the Saturn V, which is already designed.

Going into space will require a sustained effort, not pie in the sky, OOOH
WE SHALL DO IT EASILY because of this new widgit...

The advancement of science and the concept of 'Discovery' sometimes happends through unlikely research.

IBM said in the early 80's that 'one day everyone will have a computer on their desk.' They spent millions on developing the personal p.c. Companies like NEC thought they were crazy.

The Pentagon spent millions on trying to develop a way for the military to communicate during and after a nuclear war. Crazy -- huh? UCLA reserachers give birth to the internet.

While I agree that some of these concepts seem far fetched, the process may lead to other discovery.

As soon as space becomes profitable -- corporations will climb over the top of each other to get into the space race. I applaud Virgin Atlantic for being bold enough to take those first steps.

Funny thing is that this airline company Pan Am in the 1920's took the historic step and said that one day everyone is going to fly. Most pragmatists of the time said, "....why would I want to do that when I can get on an oceanliner...''

hummmmmmmmm

[Darth Wong]

The small portion of NASA's budget being spent on this stuff is not going to hurt anything, and you never know what might come out of it. But let's face it, the space elevator is problematic for a lot of reasons, not least of which is the huge increase in tensile strength required to make the cable hold together and the potential damage in case of breakage.

[Typhonis 1]

Also doesnt it require an equatorial location to be built from? not only would you have ground damage from cable fall BUT it could cause massie tsunamis when it hits ocean after all it will be several THOUSAND miles long.


Ideally I like Clarks sloution 4 cables connected to an artificial ring circling the planet but we have neither the terch or resources to build it.Helll in 3001 it took them finding dimonds the size of Mt Everest to build it.

[MKSheppard]

hummmmmmmmm

You're an idiot, pure and simple. Getting man into
space is not going to happen overnight because
of some new fancy invention, but because of
a long and SUSTAINED effort.

The internet, modern air travel, etc did not
suddenly go from Wright Fliers to 747s
without any intermediate steps, or from 100
baud modems to cable modems without any
in between.

Waiting for some super uber technology to fix all
of the problems inherent in space travel is a
sure way to ensure we're all stuck on this rock
forever.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Also doesnt it require an equatorial location to be built from? not only would you have ground damage from cable fall BUT it could cause massie tsunamis when it hits ocean after all it will be several THOUSAND miles long.

No, it wouldn't, becuase if it broke it would take hours or even longer to fall. That means that there could be no progressive buildup of a wave, because a tsunami happens when water is displaced very rapidly.

[Typhonis 1]

No, it wouldn't, becuase if it broke it would take hours or even longer to fall. That means that there could be no progressive buildup of a wave, because a tsunami happens when water is displaced very rapidly.

OK was thinking of the end of the cable when it would have picked up speed from the fall. Still it could cause considerabble damage.

[HemlockGrey]

Waiting for some super uber technology to fix all
of the problems inherent in space travel is a
sure way to ensure we're all stuck on this rock
forever.

Tommy's point was that it can't hurt to try, because we very well might come up with something workable.