Scarborough Country: Tsunami is God's punishment

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-01-06 04:34pm

MSNBC —doing its bit to advance fundie assholism:

God and the tsunami

How can a merciful God allow such disaster and suffering?

TRANSCRIPT
Updated: 5:58 p.m. ET Jan. 5, 2005

With some 175,000 people dead and vast stretches of Asia ripped apart, a lot of people are asking, how can a merciful God allow such disaster and suffering? And should we interpret this as a sign from above?

Released JAN 5, 2005

Below are excerpts from a discussion with men and women of different faiths on 'Scarborough Country’ last night:

Anne Graham Lotz, author of "Visions of His Glory":

I know that God is a loving God. I don't look at the tsunami and what has happened at Asia.

I look at the cross. And when I look at the cross of Jesus Christ, when God sent his own son to die to take away my sin, I know that God loves me. So, I don't know the love of God is in question when this happens.

Why he has allowed it to happen, I don't know. I can't answer that question. But I think one of the things that we need to do when there's a disaster like that is to look up and ask God, “Are you trying to get our attention? Is there something we can learn from this? Is there something you're trying to say to us?”

What is interesting about this is that this tsunami did not increase death. All of those people who died were going to die anyway. And I don't mean to be cold. We desperately don't desire to see people suffer in such a horrific way. But, at the same time, every single one of us is going to die. And the critical thing is to determine what is going to happen to us the moment after we die. Where are we going to spend eternity?

And that's why God, who does love you, and he sent his own son to die on the cross, that, when I place my faith in him, I can be forgiven of my sin and I can know for sure that, when something happens to me—and I can die on the highway. I can die as a result of a disease. It doesn't have to be a tsunami. But one day, I'm going to die. And I know when I do, I am going to be ushered into my father's home into heaven because I have placed my faith in Jesus.

So, this is a tragedy and it's a disaster, but it's not a reflection on the fact that God doesn't love us, because God loves us and the proof of that is the cross.

Jennifer Giroux, director, Women Influencing the Nation:

Throughout history and reported early in the Bible, God has always used plagues, floods and natural disasters as a source of punishment.

One can talk about a sad lost generation over there in the disaster going on in Asia. We have a lost generation of 40 million aborted babies in this country that is being ignored by so many people. I believe that this situation that happens makes all of us look inward, realize God is ultimately in control of life and death.

Look at what we're looking with just in this country with cloning, homosexuality, trying to make homosexual marriages, abortion, lack of God in the schools, taking Jesus out of Christmas. I can't pretend to know the mind of God. But, historically, there have been warnings. And God, who is all-loving and all-good, and he will not be mocked.

What I’m saying is that God does allow natural disasters to happen. He always brings good out of bad. There is sin in this country. There is sin around the world. There's no way anybody could look over there and say they are more deserving than anybody else to have this disaster. We all look with horror.

And I think one thing that really has made all of us think is, we all know in the Bible it says death comes like a thief in the night and we know not the day or the hour. And it makes all of us look inward and ask, “Am I ready to meet my maker? And am I ready, if this were to happen right now, where is my life? Am I doing what God wants me to do? And am I living a moral life? “

We as individuals and as a country need to turn to God again, ask for forgiveness and mend our ways.

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, author, "Face Your Fear":

I think Jennifer Giroux is guilty of colossal blasphemy and even more colossal arrogance, because even Jesus on the cross says in Matthew 27 and Mark 15, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? “

He wanted to live. He was challenging God. He was saying life is precious, unlike Anne Graham Lotz, who just said only the afterlife matters. Jesus challenged God.

It's what Abraham also does when God says, “I'm going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.” And they were more sinful than any American or people living in Sri Lanka or Indonesia.

How dare one say that 150,000 people that you have never met who are probably more righteous than you, more innocent than you, poor people who just worked hard to feed their kids, how dare you say they were punished by God? You don't know those people.

Tim Lahaye, co-author, "Left Behind":

Bible prophesy is history written in advance. And it doesn't mean that God is arranging all these activities.

I think the God of the Bible is a God of love, as Anne has described. But in order to understand what he does in an isolated situation like this, we have to come back and understand who he is. And although it's true as, I think the rabbi said, that Jesus prayed, “Why have you forsaken me?” the fact is, that's not the end of the story. If you go on, three days later, Jesus was raised from the dead and God raised him up from the dead, proving that his sacrifice for sin was acceptable.

But the point is, we're looking through a glass darkly. We don't see the end from the beginning. Bible prophesy tells us that, as we get closer to the end of the age, there will be more and more of these natural phenomenon. And that's one of the things that I resent, people trying to say that this is the judgment of God. No, this is just the natural result of the phenomenon of nature.

As the Earth changes and shifts on its plates, you have earthquakes caused and such tidal waves that are just unbelievable and you have death and so on. I don't believe God is picking on these people. But we're approaching a time when people have to make sure that they are right before God, because all of these uncertainties—and certainly death is an uncertainty—when it comes, it's an uncertainty. It points out to us that we have to be ready at all times to understand not the God that man sees just in an isolated event, but the God of the Bible.

The amazing thing about it is, if you go to the U.S. Geological Society, you will find that they chart earthquakes and they have been increasing. For the past five decades, every decade has increased the number of earthquakes, killer earthquakes we're talking about. And this is one of the granddaddy of all earthquakes, and it has taken so much life. And the good thing about all of this is, it points out that man really has to get right before God, because the time is short.

Things are happening so rapidly today. Even unsaved secular scientists say they see no hope for this world beyond 25 or 50 years. What should our response be?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2005-01-06 04:41pm

Plate tectonics is the more accurate reason as to why this happened. And based upon that fact this disaster could have prevented if a mere fraction of the money mindlessly donated to churchs and other religious institutions would have been put towards an early warning system. The fundies can go fuck themselves.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-06 04:45pm

Dingbat Bitch wrote:But I think one of the things that we need to do when there's a disaster like that is to look up and ask God, “Are you trying to get our attention? Is there something we can learn from this? Is there something you're trying to say to us?”

Y'know, if God wants to get my attention, he could email. Or phone. I have two phones, which he should be well aware of, being omniscient and all.

Stupid Motherfucker wrote:And the good thing about all of this is, it points out that man really has to get right before God, because the time is short.

This God of theirs has a lot more to get right before me than I have to get right before him.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-06 04:46pm

God is an abusive parent .... where's the Interdimensional Department of Health & Social Services? I think our planet needs to sue for emancipation.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-01-06 04:58pm

For a second there, I could've sworn it was the year 2005.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-01-06 06:00pm

don't almost all religious nutters say something about a big natural disaster or bombing (9/11?) being caused by god's wrath? nothing too terribly surprising here.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2005-01-06 06:19pm

Jennifer Giroux, director, Women Influencing the Nation:

Throughout history and reported early in the Bible, God has always used plagues, floods and natural disasters as a source of punishment.

One can talk about a sad lost generation over there in the disaster going on in Asia. We have a lost generation of 40 million aborted babies in this country that is being ignored by so many people. I believe that this situation that happens makes all of us look inward, realize God is ultimately in control of life and death.

Look at what we're looking with just in this country with cloning, homosexuality, trying to make homosexual marriages, abortion, lack of God in the schools, taking Jesus out of Christmas. I can't pretend to know the mind of God. But, historically, there have been warnings. And God, who is all-loving and all-good, and he will not be mocked.

What I’m saying is that God does allow natural disasters to happen. He always brings good out of bad. There is sin in this country. There is sin around the world. There's no way anybody could look over there and say they are more deserving than anybody else to have this disaster. We all look with horror.

And I think one thing that really has made all of us think is, we all know in the Bible it says death comes like a thief in the night and we know not the day or the hour. And it makes all of us look inward and ask, “Am I ready to meet my maker? And am I ready, if this were to happen right now, where is my life? Am I doing what God wants me to do? And am I living a moral life? “

We as individuals and as a country need to turn to God again, ask for forgiveness and mend our ways.

So... all the sinnin' in America is the reason God sicced tsunamis on people on the opposite side of the fucking planet?!

He's managed to kill just about everybody else. But like
a poor marksman, He keeps missing the target!

Big Phil · Post by **Big Phil** » 2005-01-06 06:20pm

Didn't you read the post - secular scientists say we're in trouble in 25 to 50 years because of Gawd sending more earthquakes. It's because we're all sinners and homosexuals and lesbians who want to abort children.

Me personally - I'm going home tonight and I'm going to have premarital sex with my girlfriend, and then we're going to sleep in the house where we're living together in sin. While I'm at it, I may take the name of the lord in vain a few times, and covet a few things here and there.

If Gawd wants to teach me a lesson, maybe he can send a lightning bolt to smack down a few Christers...

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2005-01-06 07:25pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Plate tectonics is the more accurate reason as to why this happened. And based upon that fact this disaster could have prevented if a mere fraction of the money mindlessly donated to churchs and other religious institutions would have been put towards an early warning system. The fundies can go fuck themselves.

Plate tectonics is just a THEORY. Silly atheist, relying on theories! It's PURE religion. The tsunami had specified irreducible complexity, and required God to lift his protective kilt from the East for following false gods for so long.

The bible talks of natural disasters and HERE is a natural disaster. Could this be some sort of coincidence? No, the skeptics are beside themselves in fear of what this means. End times people, end times.

The religious reich are always so tiresomely predictable. "Oh, a new disaster, people in pain, lots of dead... time to take advantage and pimp my archaic ideas." Prophets used to have to predict these things, they'd get messages from God and take the righteous to a afety, and if they didn't, they'd be killed for being a false prophet. Now, they just complain about people they hate and then blame them when something happens, saying "told you so". Yeah, thanks for the heads up, guys.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-06 08:27pm

Like Jesus gave a shit about dying when he's both God and the Holy Spirit at the same time. He must've been a masochist if anything, why he dragged us into it I'll never know.

Just as well Nietzsche killed God. I'd hate to have to write him a letter of disgust right now.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-01-06 10:11pm

Just as well Nietzsche killed God. I'd hate to have to write him a letter of disgust right now.

I suddenly have a vision of Nieztche standing over a very big corpse with a knife and thinking to himself, "Man, maybe I should write about this..."

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2005-01-06 11:14pm

Jesus Christ. Ooops. Shit here comes another tsunami!

Jesus Christ · Post by **Jesus Christ** » 2005-01-07 12:39am

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:Jesus Christ. Ooops. Shit here comes another tsunami!

No tsunami, my child, but if thou keeps bothering me a smack upside the head may come thy way.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-01-07 12:40am

You been boozin' again, Mr. Mackey?

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2005-01-07 12:43am

Joe wrote:You been boozin' again, Mr. Mackey?

eh? not in some time by work shifts dont really allow for it.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-01-07 02:46am

Anyone seen the Muslim fundies response to this?

"Allah has sent a cleansing wave to clean the dirty beaches of prositution and sin."(paraphrased from some Kuwait cleric)

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-01-07 09:37am

Zeus was much more accurate with his lightning bolts.