Had a Miscarriage? Go to Jail.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2005-01-07 04:42am

Virginia delegate tries to pass "Report of Fetal Death by mother, penalty" law

I can't speak for the reliability site itself, nor do I know how likely this is to be passed, but that someone could seriously conceive of such a bill makes me sick.

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2005-01-07 05:00am

someone please carpet nuke the shit out of Virginia, PLEASE!

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-07 05:05am

What... possible justification is there for this bill?

Dennis Toy · Post by **Dennis Toy** » 2005-01-07 05:11am

From the sub-human asshole who is nothing more than alien shit that happened to become sentient.

( Rep. Cosgrove)

This bill, which was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department, is an attempt to reduce the number of "trashcan" babies that are born and then abandoned in trashcans, toilets, or elsewhere to die from exposure or worse. There are numerous examples of these tragic deaths in Virginia, many in Northern Virginia and also in Hampton Roads. Once the body of a child is found, if the death of that child is undetermined by a coroner, the person abandoning that child can only be charged with "the improper disposal of a human body".

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-01-07 05:13am

Stofsk wrote:What... possible justification is there for this bill?

Pro-lifer shit, fetuses are people and thus their deaths should be reported. I hope this crashes and burns.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2005-01-07 06:52am

Even if it was passed, the Virgnia Supreme Court would have to throw it out on the simple grounds that it is unenforceable, because many fetuses abort spontaneously at such an early period in pregnancy that it's rare or impossible for the woman to even know she was pregnant. Generally, regardless of how conservative they are, courts look askance at laws that are unenforceable, though if it does pass the mere fact that it is going to require a disgusting and sordid court challenge to overturn is rather depressing.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-07 07:16am

Dennis Toy wrote:From the sub-human asshole who is nothing more than alien shit that happened to become sentient.

( Rep. Cosgrove)

This bill, which was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department, is an attempt to reduce the number of "trashcan" babies that are born and then abandoned in trashcans, toilets, or elsewhere to die from exposure or worse. There are numerous examples of these tragic deaths in Virginia, many in Northern Virginia and also in Hampton Roads. Once the body of a child is found, if the death of that child is undetermined by a coroner, the person abandoning that child can only be charged with "the improper disposal of a human body".

while we all can agree that disposing of a living newborn infant in a trash can or toilet is deplorable and demands legal remedy, this is not the way to fix the problem. Nor is that the true intent of this law.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-01-07 09:02am

I fucking hate my state. I really...really do. Remind me again why the North wanted to keep this shithole when it tried to split off?

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2005-01-07 10:41am

This bill definately needs refined. The most disturbing element is that it makes no distinction on gestational age.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-01-07 12:02pm

What's most disturbing to me is that Landover Baptist had an story where a woman had a miscarriage of a few week old embryo (essentially she was doing aerobics, didn't know she was pregnant, and out came a little bloody blob) and was arrested by their police and put in jail for murder.

It's getting harder and harder to tell satire and real life apart. It really scares me.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2005-01-07 12:47pm

Hang on--I'm confused here....

When it comes to abandoning babies, if the medical examiner can prove that exposure, dehydration, etc was the cause of death, then there's a whole host of 'child neglect', 'endangering the child's health' and a bunch of other child abuse laws that can be brought up, right? And if the ME can't determine the cause of death, then only this "the improper disposal of a human body" charge is brought up.

So--why not just crank up the penalties for this law rather than do this whole new bill?

Oh wait--I'm using logic again....sorry, my bad......

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-07 12:56pm

dr. what wrote:Hang on--I'm confused here....

When it comes to abandoning babies, if the medical examiner can prove that exposure, dehydration, etc was the cause of death, then there's a whole host of 'child neglect', 'endangering the child's health' and a bunch of other child abuse laws that can be brought up, right? And if the ME can't determine the cause of death, then only this "the improper disposal of a human body" charge is brought up.

So--why not just crank up the penalties for this law rather than do this whole new bill?

Looking at it from a rational stand point anyway, I believe the idea is to remove the commonly used miscarriage excuse that's often used in those cases. Which makes some sense when the pregnancy is farther along.

I'm not certain this is some attempt to jam some whacko law through. It's a misguided and rather henious law but I'm not sure it's done with malicious intent.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-01-07 01:01pm

Dennis Toy wrote:From the sub-human asshole who is nothing more than alien shit that happened to become sentient.

( Rep. Cosgrove)

This bill, which was requested by the Chesapeake Police Department, is an attempt to reduce the number of "trashcan" babies that are born and then abandoned in trashcans, toilets, or elsewhere to die from exposure or worse. There are numerous examples of these tragic deaths in Virginia, many in Northern Virginia and also in Hampton Roads. Once the body of a child is found, if the death of that child is undetermined by a coroner, the person abandoning that child can only be charged with "the improper disposal of a human body".

So going by this quote, his attempt to reduce the number of 'trashcan' babies would only result in minor misdemeanor* charges being filed against the mother.

He's either lying as to his true motivations or he's nuttier than a sackful of pecans.

*What's funny is the author's attempt to paint a 'Class 1 Misdemeanor' as a serious crime.

So Delegate Cosgrove is basically saying that failing to violate your own privacy within 12 hours of a miscarriage is the criminal equivalent of statutory rape, arson, stalking, and other serious crimes.

I hardly think that potential punishments of less than a year in the pen are the ones VA law prescribes for 'serious' crimes.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-01-07 01:07pm

Oh yeah, I thought this cite of VA law was interesting:

Let's see. What other crimes are punishable as Class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia? A cursory Google search reveals just a few...

A person 18 years of age or older engaging in consensual intercourse with a child 15 or older not his spouse, child or grandchild (more commonly known as "statutory rape")

WTF?

Is it legal to have sex with your 15 year old sister, but not your 17 year old girlfriend?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-01-07 01:09pm

Stormbringer wrote:Looking at it from a rational stand point anyway, I believe the idea is to remove the commonly used miscarriage excuse that's often used in those cases. Which makes some sense when the pregnancy is farther along.

I'm not certain this is some attempt to jam some whacko law through. It's a misguided and rather henious law but I'm not sure it's done with malicious intent.

Now that you mention it, I remember when the state of Georgia passed a law to ban female genital mutilation in state and to prosecute people who do it to their children elsewhere, a very worthy law to pass. Unfortunately, it also ended up banning genital piercings of adult women, because state legislators from Bumblefuck, Nowhere honestly didn't know the difference between clitorisectomies of children and adult women on their own volition getting a piercing. I've met quite a few state legislators, and the vast majority of them (especially from rural areas) are really ignorant if not just plain stupid when things from outside their tiny little home area arise.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-07 01:10pm

Glocksman wrote:Oh yeah, I thought this cite of VA law was interesting:

Let's see. What other crimes are punishable as Class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia? A cursory Google search reveals just a few...

A person 18 years of age or older engaging in consensual intercourse with a child 15 or older not his spouse, child or grandchild (more commonly known as "statutory rape")
WTF?

Is it legal to have sex with your 15 year old sister, but not your 17 year old girlfriend?

One would figure that sort of thing is covered by something else. Sexual assualt or the like.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2005-01-07 01:12pm

Perhaps, but the word 'spouse' makes me wonder.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-07 01:14pm

Glocksman wrote:Perhaps, but the word 'spouse' makes me wonder.

Minors that are married are generally exempted from stuatory rape laws.

Flakin · Post by **Flakin** » 2005-01-07 01:17pm

Jesus fucking Christ on a motorbike. What a crock of shit.

As if the experience of a miscarriage wouldn't be painful and upsetting enough.

And as far as the disclaimer that he's trying to prevent 'trashcan babies' - you would think that someone with as much experience in the house as this douchebag would be able to write a clearer bill. I don't buy it for a second.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-07 01:29pm

Flakin wrote:And as far as the disclaimer that he's trying to prevent 'trashcan babies' - you would think that someone with as much experience in the house as this douchebag would be able to write a clearer bill. I don't buy it for a second.

Yes, because everyone South of the Mason-Dixon line has an evil hidden agenda.

Sorry but it seems right that this is just a monumentally stupid bill. Those happen all the time, especially at the state level! It's one of the things about having a democracy, those that draft the bills might not be the best at the job.

Admiral_K · Post by **Admiral_K** » 2005-01-07 01:32pm

Glocksman wrote:Oh yeah, I thought this cite of VA law was interesting:

Let's see. What other crimes are punishable as Class 1 misdemeanors in Virginia? A cursory Google search reveals just a few...

A person 18 years of age or older engaging in consensual intercourse with a child 15 or older not his spouse, child or grandchild (more commonly known as "statutory rape")
WTF?

Is it legal to have sex with your 15 year old sister, but not your 17 year old girlfriend?

I would assume that its not legal, but rather is covered by a more harsh penalty.

Flakin · Post by **Flakin** » 2005-01-07 01:58pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Flakin wrote:And as far as the disclaimer that he's trying to prevent 'trashcan babies' - you would think that someone with as much experience in the house as this douchebag would be able to write a clearer bill. I don't buy it for a second.
Yes, because everyone South of the Mason-Dixon line has an evil hidden agenda.

Sorry but it seems right that this is just a monumentally stupid bill. Those happen all the time, especially at the state level! It's one of the things about having a democracy, those that draft the bills might not be the best at the job.

Storm, I'm south of the Mason-Dixie myself. I don't beleive that everyone here has a hidden agenda - by and large I think that most people here are as honest as you'll find anywhere. I like it here enough to stay.

I do think that politicians who've been in the house for that long would have a clearer idea about how to write a clear bill though. Because the way the bill is written in its current form it makes no distinction that I can see between a miscarried fetus and a viable baby.

Flakin · Post by **Flakin** » 2005-01-07 01:59pm

And I agree, its a monumentally stupid bill.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-01-07 04:13pm

Flakin wrote:Storm, I'm south of the Mason-Dixie myself. I don't beleive that everyone here has a hidden agenda - by and large I think that most people here are as honest as you'll find anywhere. I like it here enough to stay.

Sorry, you have an av that's almost indistinguishable from one of the more obnoxious commentaters and I overreacted on a mistaken indentity.

Flakin wrote:I do think that politicians who've been in the house for that long would have a clearer idea about how to write a clear bill though. Because the way the bill is written in its current form it makes no distinction that I can see between a miscarried fetus and a viable baby.

I would think they would too. But the fact is they as often as not don't, one reason we have such an active court system. That doesn't mean that it's necessarily malicious, whether you buy it or not.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-01-07 04:35pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Flakin wrote:And as far as the disclaimer that he's trying to prevent 'trashcan babies' - you would think that someone with as much experience in the house as this douchebag would be able to write a clearer bill. I don't buy it for a second.
Yes, because everyone South of the Mason-Dixon line has an evil hidden agenda.

How does "this assclown has a hidden agenda" translate to "everyone there has a hidden agenda"?

Sorry but it seems right that this is just a monumentally stupid bill. Those happen all the time, especially at the state level! It's one of the things about having a democracy, those that draft the bills might not be the best at the job.

On the contrary, this seems like a bill that would come from a hardcore Pro-Lifer. Notice how he responds to accusations about a fetal death bill by talking about babies; now who do you know that routinely treats "fetus" and "baby" as synonyms? Don't try to think too hard; I wouldn't want you hurting yourself.