Train crash in Italy

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-09 05:05am

North of Bologna. 14 or so people killed.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2005-01-09 05:28am

BOLOGNINA DI CREVALCORE, Italy -- Rescue workers on Saturday combed through the mangled remains of two trains that collided head-on in northern Italy, searching for bodies.

A day after the crash, the death toll was 14.

Fire department officials in Bologna said that several train cars were so badly crushed and ripped apart that they had still been unable to thoroughly inspect them more than 24 hours after the crash on the line between Bologna and Verona.

Officials on Saturday discovered a 14th body, an unidentified man, the fire department said. Rescue workers did not rule out finding others and expected to continue the search for at least one more day.

The passenger train collided with a freight train Friday in heavy fog in a field in Bolognina di Crevalcore, north of Bologna.

The force of the crash left one carriage standing on end nearly perpendicular with the tracks.

Dozens of people were injured, most of them lightly.

The ANSA news agency said that five people were still hospitalized Saturday.

Investigators were studying the possibility that one train failed to stop at a red light and wait for the other train to pass on a second track, news reports said.

But a prosecutor in Bologna heading the investigation declined to comment on the report.

"We have not been able to verify any hypotheses with the information we have had from station records," Prosecutor Enrico Cieri told TG1 television news.

The Civil Defense department said around 100 people were on board the passenger train, which was traveling south from Verona to Bologna.

The freighter, which carried long metal rods, was headed north from Rome to San Zeno Falzano.

Though most train accidents in Italy are minor, the country has occasionally seen deadly crashes.

The most recent was in July 2002, when a train from Palermo to Messina derailed in northeastern Sicily, killing at least eight people.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-01-09 05:45am

A train head-on collision?

In 2005?

How?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-09 06:09am

Frank Hipper wrote:A train head-on collision?

In 2005?

How?

One track, two trains. It was so foggy that the passenger train didn't see the red light indicating the other train was already on the shared line.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2005-01-09 06:26am

BoredShirtless wrote:One track, two trains. It was so foggy that the passenger train didn't see the red light indicating the other train was already on the shared line.

Didn't either of them get a warning via radio, cell phone, or whatever system is used in case of emergency?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-09 06:34am

Sharpshooter wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:One track, two trains. It was so foggy that the passenger train didn't see the red light indicating the other train was already on the shared line.
Didn't either of them get a warning via radio, cell phone, or whatever system is used in case of emergency?

This isn't the Money Train. There is no rail map of the country side rail lines showing where trains are in real time.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2005-01-09 09:34am

I know the US has train traffic control facilities arguably better than what the FAA uses for airplanes. I know we also make extensive use of remote sensors and automatic braking in trains, having had my morning commute delayed on occassion by the system kicking in.

These systems - perhaps even more sophisticated systems - are also widely used in Japan, Germany, France, Belgium, and the UK (probably others, too). All countries with very low rates of rail accidents (Germany did have a catastrophic high-speed rail crash but that was due to a train part actually breaking, not to failure of warning and signalling systems)

Why doesn't Italy have and use such systems? Or do they, and the system failed?

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2005-01-09 11:30am

Broomstick wrote:Why doesn't Italy have and use such systems? Or do they, and the system failed?

We don't, not on 95%+ of our railway. The trait in question, as most of our railway, has not seen any decent change in more than 50 years.

Thunderfire · Post by **Thunderfire** » 2005-01-09 11:41am

Broomstick wrote:(Germany did have a catastrophic high-speed rail crash but that was due to a train part actually breaking, not to failure of warning and signalling systems)

There was a simiilar accident in germany 1.5 years ago. A wrong signal caused a head on crash between two pasenger trains.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-09 12:35pm

Hendrake wrote:
Broomstick wrote:Why doesn't Italy have and use such systems? Or do they, and the system failed?
We don't, not on 95%+ of our railway. The trait in question, as most of our railway, has not seen any decent change in more than 50 years.

Are you serious? With the European Union's heavy dependance on rail for travel I find that more than a little disturbing.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-09 01:28pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:you serious? With the European Union's heavy dependance on rail for travel I find that more than a little disturbing.

This is Italy you're talking about; a country that hasn't been entirely stable since the end of WW2. Train difficulties are just some of problems I would expect them to have, though it happens to be an enormously serious one they will have to cope with. Hopefully this tragedy will inspire them to do so.

Ma Deuce · Post by **Ma Deuce** » 2005-01-09 07:33pm

I know the US has train traffic control facilities arguably better than what the FAA uses for airplanes. I know we also make extensive use of remote sensors and automatic braking in trains, having had my morning commute delayed on occassion by the system kicking in.

Yet head-ons still occasionally happen in North America, like that BNSF collision at Clarendon, Texas in 2002, and at Gunter, Texas just this year: there was also a CSX head-on at Vitis, Florida about a month ago: of course, these were all freight trains, but you get the idea...

Rear-enders can be almost as devastating, such as the ones at Bellamont, Arizona (BNSF), Mojave California (UP), or Arminto, Wyoming (BNSF)...

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-09 09:11pm

The money budgeted for new rail safety systems has probably been spent on new suits for Berlesconi .... seriously, no other EU/NATO country comes close in governmental corruption.

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2005-01-10 06:07am

Chmee wrote:The money budgeted for new rail safety systems has probably been spent on new suits for Berlesconi .... seriously, no other EU/NATO country comes close in governmental corruption.

About right: Berlusconi promised to restructure the railway, but the money initially allocated was insufficent. And then cut to finance his tax cuts, from wich he saved about one hundred million euros.

Then he spent a lot of the money left for a project of a bridge in Messina (wich is a SEISMIC ZONE and the bridge is going to be 3.7 km long).

And the last of the money was spent in making mostly uneeded galleries since our minister of Transportation's realtives has a gallery drilling company.

And, with the last tax cuts, train personnel has been downsized and maintenance funds decreased.

The previous governments didn't do as much to sabotage the infrastructure but did no better at improving it from the post WW2 standard.