1.) Makes sense. Look at what happend to the Ghosts when they where given standard type three power packs instead of type fives(or was it the other way around?) Could you imagine that happening on the level battlegroup?
2.) Again makes sense. I still don't like the idea of multi-warhead torps but I agree it could be possible. They just seem....counter to the idea of torpedos.....Then again I can be stubborn. I just can't shake the idea multi-warheads are better used as part of the weapons battery.
As to the Lunar, yes you can do that but it's not the original design and usually requires a major refit where they strip out the tubes and install the nova cannon's workings. You could also point out that Dictators are just Lunars that have had thier lance cannons gutted out to fit lanuch bays.
Maybe I should ahve used a Gothic for that example.
Dictators have weapon batteries, Gothics don't. It wouldn't work for that example.
They do use short range missles as part of the weapons battery.
It comes down to different torps for different jobs with some being more versitile than others. A whole bunch of 5GT munitions will work better than standard torps at taking out ordinance or wiping out large chunks of an unshielded space hulk, but probably not nearly as well at damaging a shielded battleship with an admantium prow.
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The Lunar is not used throughout the imperium as a whole. It's used in the areas around the eye of terror, and throughout the segmentum, but the other side of the galaxy has ships that look very different. And the Lunar is as close to a ubiquitous ship as you can get.
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Spiritbw wrote:
2.) Again makes sense. I still don't like the idea of multi-warhead torps but I agree it could be possible. They just seem....counter to the idea of torpedos.....Then again I can be stubborn. I just can't shake the idea multi-warheads are better used as part of the weapons battery.
When dealing with a Space Hulk, which is a huge, fairly-loosely-held-together collection of debris and smaller ships, it seems to me that a multi-warhead weapon would make a lot of sense - individual bits of the Hulk aren't going to be that resilient, but there's a lot of stuff to destroy, so you want to spread the blast out as much as possible. In such a situation, putting a GT-range warhead into a specific locations would be rather wasteful - sure, you'll reduce that bit to stray atoms, but the overall damage done will be much less.
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"This was evil manifest."
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Spiritbw wrote:Are you lookinga t the rulebook that comes in the boxset for BFG? Or is there another version out there? I'm looking at mine and all I have is a quote and info on how to use the bearing compass on page seven.
Sorry 'bout that, messed up the coding. Should've said 78. And the quote itself:
Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, page 78 wrote:At around two thousand, the turrets opened up with an impressive show of firing and knocked down some of the torps, but they were already splitting, each one spawning a swarm of a dozen smaller fireflies that when through the defensive fire like meteors.
I'm assuming Words of Blood: Raptor Down is book which I'll have to see about getting. Was it a collection of short stories or was it a single book?
Collection of short stories.
"I do not say the French cannot come. I only say they cannot come by sea." - Admiral Lord St. Vincent, Royal Navy, during the Napoleonic Wars
"Show me a general who has made no mistakes and you speak of a general who has seldom waged war." - Marshal Turenne, 1641
By what method does the basic torpedo penetrate the hull of a ship, or is this one of those GW weapons that doesn't make the slightest sense?
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
Gunhead wrote:By what method does the basic torpedo penetrate the hull of a ship, or is this one of those GW weapons that doesn't make the slightest sense?
-Gunhead
Adamantium penetrator tip, with charges to fire the main warhead into the target's hull.
"I do not say the French cannot come. I only say they cannot come by sea." - Admiral Lord St. Vincent, Royal Navy, during the Napoleonic Wars
"Show me a general who has made no mistakes and you speak of a general who has seldom waged war." - Marshal Turenne, 1641
What about guidance? I for one wouldn't be using rocket propelled kinetic penetrators in space combat. But let's see...
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
Well their torps make sense If they can accelerate fast enough. Other method would be to use an explosive charge to ram the adamantium penetrator through the armor, which then explodes doing maximum amount to damage to the interior of the ship.
Just using velocity to penetrate the hull makes them bit iffy. (Glancing and that sort of thing, maybe the AI can handle it. Then again don't have that much confidence in 40K AIs)
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
AIs....from the same people who gave us 'the machine spirit' and priesthood-technicians? Please tell me you're joking.
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AIs....from the same people who gave us 'the machine spirit' and priesthood-technicians? Please tell me you're joking.
Their AIs work by steam of course. It's GW, what do you expect?
They have created some of the most stupid weapons in existence.
Nobody ever talked about consistency or logic.
-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
AIs....from the same people who gave us 'the machine spirit' and priesthood-technicians? Please tell me you're joking.
The machine spirit, as the coggies call it, is the AI. Dark Imperium: Battle of the Archeosaurs explains this, and the Titan books/Crusade For Armageddon refinforce it.
"I do not say the French cannot come. I only say they cannot come by sea." - Admiral Lord St. Vincent, Royal Navy, during the Napoleonic Wars
"Show me a general who has made no mistakes and you speak of a general who has seldom waged war." - Marshal Turenne, 1641
'Machine spirits' are the way the Imperium gets around the injunction against 'soulless technology'. It's pretty obvious when reading the fluff that it's just regular tech, but mystified by the AM.
The primary reasoning behind this is to keep technology out of the hands of the common folk and to curtail private research.
There's a lot of goofy stuff in 40K, but supposed machine spirits are actually a nifty creation and storyline element, IMO.
AIs....from the same people who gave us 'the machine spirit' and priesthood-technicians? Please tell me you're joking.
They don't understand how they work. The technology predates them. In the past, AIs ruled humankind. There are some surviving examples, primative versions of which are used in torpedos.
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AIs....from the same people who gave us 'the machine spirit' and priesthood-technicians? Please tell me you're joking.
They don't understand how they work. The technology predates them. In the past, AIs ruled humankind. There are some surviving examples, primative versions of which are used in torpedos.
And some batshit insane examples, that make Cthulthuesque Cyborg-Monsters as toys, and resurrect dead people to have someone to talk to when stuck behind stasis fields.......
Cyclonic torps are Exterminatus weapons. Rare, but carried by most Space Marine battle barges (they don't have to give up anything to perform Exterminatus).
I dunno, it might be that they seem to be able to brute force an exterminatus pretty nicely from the Firewarrior ending.
I'm not even going to TRY to figure out why you need an AI of any sort to make a missile home in on a target. We seemed to do fairly well about thirty-nine millenia ago without that.
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-'If you really want to fuck with these idiots tell them that there is a vaccine for chemtrails.'
White Haven wrote:I'm not even going to TRY to figure out why you need an AI of any sort to make a missile home in on a target. We seemed to do fairly well about thirty-nine millenia ago without that.
It's a target a few kilometers away, sixty thousand miles away. Furthermore, don't confuse AI with Sentient AI. We're talking Expert Systems here.
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"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
The only thing close to a sentient AI in W40kverse was apparently this uber-titan that was used in the Horus Heresy, lot bigger than Imperators. They supposedly shut it down afterwards cause it would attack both sides.
I don't know if that's true. Someone mentioned it on SB.
Shinova wrote:The only thing close to a sentient AI in W40kverse was apparently this uber-titan that was used in the Horus Heresy, lot bigger than Imperators. They supposedly shut it down afterwards cause it would attack both sides.
I don't know if that's true. Someone mentioned it on SB.
I think that was Klavo-hunter...
So unless someone else is around who has this little snippet, its a load of bollocks,
And I really would love to see you support such a nice absolute statement anyway.
For the battle, the inital assault, etc., I would see a different mode:
Assuming 1000 ships, I would go for 400 ISDs, and 600 World Devastators. You send them through, and have the World Devastators chow down on uninhabited planets, and load up on material, growing, and getting more powerful.
Then, you start mapping out the Sol system. Fleet locatiomns, patrols, etc, as was mentioned earlier. From there, you proceed around the system, identifying a weak point, and hammering that point. When the defenders try to capture you, just hyper away.
Repeat that for several days. Sol has called for help, and nearby fleets are likely getting underway.
Continue that until the whole system has all of its defenses destroyed. From there, you bombard Terra until only Europe is still fairly intact (assuming they know where the Emperor is).
After that, you do NOT perform a ground assault. You use the World Devastators to circle around the remaining parts of the palace, consuming the ground beneath them. Send a force of several million droids in every few hours, to keep the defenders from getting much sleep.
If they send out the Titans, the World devastators use their anti-shipping weapons to splatter them. If they remain in side the palace, just slowly eat your way around the palace, maknig a bigger drop off every hour.
Eventually, you've got the whole palace balanced on a small sliver of rock/adamantium at the base. Pop that last partition, and let the whole thing fall over.
Bombard again, and bring down the shield. From there, keep on eating the palace, and sending droids in to wear down the defenders. Kamikazi droids would be best. Give them armor, and a low-yied nuke (or a shrapnel warhead, that launches thermal detnators instead).
It may take 100 or more droids to kill a single Custodian, but those droids get built in a matter of days/weeks. The Custodians will run out.
After that, grab the IoM Emperor, bug out, and let the GE Emperor have a sit-down, and a chance to talk to someone his mental equal.
Oh, and remove a Hive fleet or few, as a gift to the IoM Emperor. Plus a few Ork Waaaghs, a Chaos incursion, and annihilate the pirates that likely sprung up.
Essentially, you offer the IoM Emperor a chance to make humanity the top dog in the galaxy within a decade, tops.
Of course, he is going to be mighty PO'd that you splattered his home, so you might want to slowly wake him up (not kill him, merely use medical tech to heal him).
Shinova wrote:The only thing close to a sentient AI in W40kverse was apparently this uber-titan that was used in the Horus Heresy, lot bigger than Imperators. They supposedly shut it down afterwards cause it would attack both sides.
I don't know if that's true. Someone mentioned it on SB.
Every necron ship, and in all likelyhood, every necron monolith is sentient. Admittedly, the latter don't seem to have much in the way of personality, but they are supposedly sentient.
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Shinova wrote:The only thing close to a sentient AI in W40kverse was apparently this uber-titan that was used in the Horus Heresy, lot bigger than Imperators. They supposedly shut it down afterwards cause it would attack both sides.
I don't know if that's true. Someone mentioned it on SB.
All Titans are sentient (though to what degree depends on how old they are, amongst other things), and starships have sentient AIs, after a fashion.
The Blood Angels battle barge Bellus for instance has a semi-sentient AI.
"I do not say the French cannot come. I only say they cannot come by sea." - Admiral Lord St. Vincent, Royal Navy, during the Napoleonic Wars
"Show me a general who has made no mistakes and you speak of a general who has seldom waged war." - Marshal Turenne, 1641
This could very well be the GE version of the Somme or Verdun..... I don`t see the GE winning this easily ....\then you have the fact that if they Did scout around some first they could have alerted others to there prescence...the Necrontyr come to mind, finally the GE has NO experience dealing with Deamons and even if there spies manage to gut the proper gear there is no guarantee of compatability or even that they can reverse engineer the stuff to let it work for them allowing that the GE even believes that these 'Daemons' are a threat not just local superstition.
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I just can't shake the idea multi-warheads are better used as part of the weapons battery.
You could also point out that Dictators are just Lunars that have had thier lance cannons gutted out to fit lanuch bays.
I'm looking at mine and all I have is a quote and info on how to use the bearing compass on page seven.
