Did the Deathstar need to be that big?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-01-10 03:15pm

Is there any evidence that the Deathstar (both incarnations) needed to be as large as it was? Did a reactor need to be so enormous to power the super laser to its destructive potential or was the size of the death star merely a psychological and practical necessity. Psychological because it was just so fucking big it scared the shit out of you (In ANH Han seemed pretty convinved that no one had built any military platform that size in his experience)

A practical need because a battle station needs to carry alot of troops and provide parts and supplies to any escorting ships as well as erect garrsions and the like. After all wouldn't the superlaser have been just as effective mounted on a Superstradestroyer hull without the expense and investment in men and material that a deathstar requires?

Or did the superlaser actually need that kind of space for a reactor and support equioment thus not why go all the way and make it into a small moon sized battlestation.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2005-01-10 03:22pm

Not to mention KJA, but he had the hutts building Darksaber, which was literally just the superlaser element. Depending on how much you want to use his stuff, he had Bevel Lemelisk pointing out that you didnt need all the garrisons and support craft, just the superlaser and the reactor to power this. The superlaser ship was described as being a simple cylinder, which might suggest that the Death Star wasnt simply a big sodding weapon with a lot of surrounding technology to make it work and a few barracks thrown in, rather a colossal garrison and space station. But others will probably have more info to hand.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2005-01-10 03:40pm

My guess is, like most Imperial constructions, it was built at an exagerated scale to scare the shit out of what ever it was pointed at. The Death Star supposed to be Tarkins baby. Fear through threat of force rather than use of force, or words to that effect.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-10 03:51pm

Not only that, but if you view it as your one size fits all planetary suppression solution, it carries all the elements one needs to roll into a submission, subdue them with sheer terror, then drop all the forces one needs properly bring a world back into line. Being able to house an enormous number of troops and support craft is very efficient in making it a multi-role craft. Also it becomes very useful in fleet engagements by being able to directly function in a combat support role, while also being able to be used as a massive mobile supply dump.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2005-01-10 06:35pm

the reactor core (when exposed during the 2nd death star's construction) didn't take up much room on the Star.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-01-10 06:50pm

I'm thinking of the Death Star Technical Manual from Westend that showed a majority of the battlestation was taken up by the reactor, engines, hyperdrive and other support equipment with only the immediate surface being habitable and used for troops and such.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-10 06:56pm

Stravo wrote:I'm thinking of the Death Star Technical Manual from Westend that showed a majority of the battlestation was taken up by the reactor, engines, hyperdrive and other support equipment with only the immediate surface being habitable and used for troops and such.

Even if that's the case, that's still a sizable area to quarter troops, fighters, spare parts for fleet maintenance, you name it.

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2005-01-10 07:27pm

The_Lumberjack wrote:Not to mention KJA, but he had the hutts building Darksaber, which was literally just the superlaser element. Depending on how much you want to use his stuff, he had Bevel Lemelisk pointing out that you didnt need all the garrisons and support craft, just the superlaser and the reactor to power this. The superlaser ship was described as being a simple cylinder, which might suggest that the Death Star wasnt simply a big sodding weapon with a lot of surrounding technology to make it work and a few barracks thrown in, rather a colossal garrison and space station. But others will probably have more info to hand.

How durable was the superlaser ship? The DeathStar was essentially immune to any regular ship attacks (and then the Rebels went after the golden BB using the X wings).

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2005-01-10 07:51pm

IRRC An asteroid collision trashed 'Darksaber'

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-01-10 08:00pm

One thing about the Darksaber, it was cheep. Say what you willabout KJA, but it was a good idea. With the Empire's resources and industrial base they could build thousands, hundreds of thousands, of Darksabers. That would be, for lack of a better word, a fucking incredible fleet. Hyper-equipped mobile planet killers. Keep them hidden, send them out where and when you need, bye bye planets of whoever you're fighting.

The Hutts are basically thugs. They didnt have the money and shipyards to capitalize on that kind of development. But i always wondered why the Empire didnt personally.

Just my two cents, others with more indepth info probably can figure why, but it seems like a far more devastating terror weapon to have thousands of planet destroyers instead of one battlefortress to me.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2005-01-10 08:01pm

Darksaber couldn't steer, couldn't brake, had no worthwhile secondary weapons, no shielding worth noticing, and its main weapon didn't work. It was crushed into scrap by two massive rocks banging together, and good riddance to it.

Remember people, lowest bidder is a bad concept to apply to your superweapons.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-01-10 08:05pm

consequences wrote:Darksaber couldn't steer, couldn't brake, had no worthwhile secondary weapons, no shielding worth noticing, and its main weapon didn't work. It was crushed into scrap by two massive rocks banging together, and good riddance to it.

Remember people, lowest bidder is a bad concept to apply to your superweapons.

Hey i agree, the Hutts didnt build a very good mini-superlaser...BUT that doesnt mean the Empire couldnt do far better or that the idea of a fleet of planet destroyers is a bad idea. Just that the Hutts couldnt do it right. Which is what i meant.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2005-01-10 10:55pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:
consequences wrote:Darksaber couldn't steer, couldn't brake, had no worthwhile secondary weapons, no shielding worth noticing, and its main weapon didn't work. It was crushed into scrap by two massive rocks banging together, and good riddance to it.

Remember people, lowest bidder is a bad concept to apply to your superweapons.
Hey i agree, the Hutts didnt build a very good mini-superlaser...BUT that doesnt mean the Empire couldnt do far better or that the idea of a fleet of planet destroyers is a bad idea. Just that the Hutts couldnt do it right. Which is what i meant.

The number one thing the Hutts did wrong was use those funny critters as their construction crews. The things built the Darksaber piecemeal. Lemckish was constantly having to get the things back on task. If it had been built the normal way the Darksaber would have been a formible weapons platform-

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-11 12:48am

I don't know about scale, but the holo projection of the 'Deathstar' as seen on AotC was pretty much the same in apperance as the actual Deathstar in ANH.

While the Empire would and could build a super weapon with lots of room for accessories, I don't think the design specs of the Geonosians and the SEP would follow the Empires exactly. While the reactor doesn't fill up the entire Deathstar, hyperdrives, fuel silo's, secondary equipment and all that shit seems to fill the interior of the ICS cut away.

So I guess, really, it has to be roughly the size as the Deathstar I and that the II was really just to scare the shit out of people more.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-11 12:59am

consequences wrote:Darksaber couldn't steer, couldn't brake, had no worthwhile secondary weapons, no shielding worth noticing, and its main weapon didn't work. It was crushed into scrap by two massive rocks banging together, and good riddance to it.

Remember people, lowest bidder is a bad concept to apply to your superweapons.

Yeah, but the Hutt's were cutting costs and using barely sentient slaves for labor. They completely screwed it up. Had it been properly completed, it would have had breaks and worthy shielding and a main superlaser. No secondary weapons though.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-01-11 09:54pm

*Points to this craft*

Now this would be, IMO, the best possible substitute for a Death Star... even at half again the diameter of DSI, it still has less mass (I think?) than DSII. What with the sheer size of this craft, it undoubtedly would be quite capable of carrying a fuckton of troops, armor, and several garrisons' worth of equipment... the ideal Darksaber.

I recommend HIMS Adequate as the name of this worthy craft...

The Cleric · Post by **The Cleric** » 2005-01-11 11:12pm

Pulsar Station

. Oh yeah, I'll take one of those.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-01-11 11:22pm

My theory on the Death Star's size: Perhaps Tarkin planned for it to be a completely self-contained mini-nation? Housing enough raw materials and ships and crew and firepower into one centralized source? Perhaps move the entire Imperial government onboard it and rule from there? Imagine the security one would have...

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-11 11:33pm

SPOOFE wrote:My theory on the Death Star's size: Perhaps Tarkin planned for it to be a completely self-contained mini-nation? Housing enough raw materials and ships and crew and firepower into one centralized source? Perhaps move the entire Imperial government onboard it and rule from there? Imagine the security one would have...

Thats a good idea, since Tarkin was Moff of the outer rim, IIRC. A modern, techno, super secure, mobile base.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2005-01-12 10:17am

My guess is the Empire intended the Death Star to be an invincible battle platform. The Death Star was mentioned to be the ultimate power in the universe. In order to do this it must have shielding and firepower dwarfing an entire fleets. And to achieve this the stations needs to be huge in order to mount the necessary equipment.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-01-12 08:31pm

The Death Star was mentioned to be the ultimate power in the universe. In order to do this it must have shielding and firepower dwarfing an entire fleets.

As well as the ability to near-perpetually feed its crew and produce new material. What good is an invincible battle station if you could starve it to death?

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-12 10:09pm

SPOOFE wrote:As well as the ability to near-perpetually feed its crew and produce new material. What good is an invincible battle station if you could starve it to death?

Eeeeeh, I see your point. But at the time of ANH, who could actually beseige that thing? Unless you had something on the order of the Vong invasion or something, it was proverbial 800 pound gorilla that could go wherever it wanted, whenever it wanted.

That said, I could see all sorts of uses for it to be able to produce both food and spare parts independently.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-01-12 11:09pm

But at the time of ANH, who could actually beseige that thing?

The Empire.

Think about it: This was Tarkin's station, not Palpatine's. Wasn't there an EU source that stated that Tarkin hoped to use the Death Star to take the Imperial throne?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2005-01-12 11:14pm

I doubt the Darksabre would have had the firepower, the speed, the protection, the endurance, the range, and the secondary roles either Death Star had.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-01-12 11:34pm

SPOOFE wrote:
But at the time of ANH, who could actually beseige that thing?
The Empire.

Think about it: This was Tarkin's station, not Palpatine's. Wasn't there an EU source that stated that Tarkin hoped to use the Death Star to take the Imperial throne?

True. However, besieging a vessel that can destroy your vessels as fast as the superlaser can recharge is a losing game. Do we know the range of the distortion effect of an interdictor vs. the range of the superlaser?