Darth Wong wrote:Nevertheless, the syndrome of employees who don't know shit and give you some mealy-mouthed referral to a more qualified employee in some other part of the store is well known in retail. It's annoying as hell to go to a store where none of the employees know where anything is.
Thats retail business hardly has a monopoly on that- you just don't know as much about all the incompetents in all the other Industries because you don't run into them, or need to ask them questions, on a regular basis.
As for the griping about paying "market wages", lets use a little example to illustrate the idoicy of that position.
Lets say you want you lawn mowed- and there are two kids willing to do it.
Kid one offers to do it for 25 bucks. Kid two, hears this and attempts to undercut his competition by offering to do it for 20 bucks. Now assuming you are one of these "generous souls" (and not a clever person who whould exploit this and try to get them into a bidding war) you would pay the first kid 25 bucks... simply because he is offering the more expensive option. Afterall, both kids are, theoritically, equally deserving of your money- you're just paying the more expensive price simply because its the more expensive price. The same applies to the "mart" situation.
Devolution is quite as natural as evolution, and may be just as pleasing, or even a good deal more pleasing, to God. If the average man is made in God's image, then a man such as Beethoven or Aristotle is plainly superior to God, and so God may be jealous of him, and eager to see his superiority perish with his bodily frame.
Costco's wages allow them to be more selective when hiring potential employees because people who wouldn't even consider working at Wally Worly for $7/hr and no benefits probably would work at Costco for $14-$16/hr with benefits.
This enlarges their applicant pool and this increases the chances of hiring the 'right' people; i.e. intelligent, self-motivated people who take pride in doing a good job.
Though in my experience, the problems with shopping at Wal-Mart stem from bonehead management decisions* more than from the people on the floor.
*Like having only 1 checkout lane open despite the fact there's 20 people lined up waiting.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Have these analysts ever said a word about companies who take 'potential shareholder dividends' and pump it into executive bonuses and perks for top management?
Or is that merely accepted as management's due and passed over?
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Have these analysts ever said a word about companies who take 'potential shareholder dividends' and pump it into executive bonuses and perks for top management?
Or is that merely accepted as management's due and passed over?
Oddly enough, I can't think of a time they ever did.
Have these analysts ever said a word about companies who take 'potential shareholder dividends' and pump it into executive bonuses and perks for top management?
Or is that merely accepted as management's due and passed over?
Well, those guys are big shareholders ... so that would be enhancing shareholder value!
Logic wins again!
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon" Operation Freedom Fry
So these analysts are bitching about Costco's wages.
Did they speak out when Dennis Koz-whateverthefuckhisnamewas and his buddies were looting Tyco for hundreds of millions in order to fund their extravagant lifestyles at company expense?
Did they speak out about the Rigases and Adelphia before the Feds indicted practically the entire family for looting the company?
No?
O-Kay....
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
Glocksman wrote:So these analysts are bitching about Costco's wages.
Did they speak out when Dennis Koz-whateverthefuckhisnamewas and his buddies were looting Tyco for hundreds of millions in order to fund their extravagant lifestyles at company expense?
Did they speak out about the Rigases and Adelphia before the Feds indicted practically the entire family for looting the company?
No?
O-Kay....
Or for that matter the douche bags looting K-mart into the ground (literally!).
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:As for the griping about paying "market wages", lets use a little example to illustrate the idoicy of that position.
Lets say you want you lawn mowed- and there are two kids willing to do it.
Kid one offers to do it for 25 bucks. Kid two, hears this and attempts to undercut his competition by offering to do it for 20 bucks. Now assuming you are one of these "generous souls" (and not a clever person who whould exploit this and try to get them into a bidding war) you would pay the first kid 25 bucks... simply because he is offering the more expensive option. Afterall, both kids are, theoritically, equally deserving of your money- you're just paying the more expensive price simply because its the more expensive price. The same applies to the "mart" situation.
There's so many flaws with that analogy it's not even funny, but the main problem is you're assuming the 2 kids will do the same job with the same quality and one will do it for less pay. If you're trying to say that Walmart & Costco employees are equally competent & helpful, you're on fucking crack.
The correct analogy would be as follows. One kid will mow your lawn for $25, he will do a neat perfect job in 1 hour. He will leave nice straight lines in your lawn, clean up the clippings, and do no damage to the flower beds. Another kid will cut your lawn for $15. But this schmuck will leave ugly wavy lines in your lawn, trample on your flower beds, miss spots on the lawn, and leave grass clippings all over your sidewalk, driveway, and walkways. Oh, and he'll take 3 hours to do the job. You know this because you've seen their work in your neighbourhood. Which kid do you hire now?
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either.
To elaborate, both stores have been around long enough that the kids of the original shoppers are themselves shopping. Kids that grew up going to Costco will probably keep going there, even if they're dirt-poor college students (I fit in this category). Kids who grew up going to Sam's Club will probably keep going there, even if they end up financially more successful.
Howedar wrote:The line is more blurred than you might think.
They're really not that blurred. 20 years of research data tell me that Costco customers are very different from Sam's Club customers. The demographics aren't even in the same range.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Actually, I think Howedar might be right, Costco is very popular around my area with college students who like the price savings and are smart enough to know that shopping at Wal-Mart is a poor idea.
The Kernel wrote:Actually, I think Howedar might be right, Costco is very popular around my area with college students who like the price savings and are smart enough to know that shopping at Wal-Mart is a poor idea.
There's no arguing that young people shop at Costco, and that rich people shop at Wal-Mart, but I'm telling you, having done research for Costco on their membership and Sam's Club membership for the past 20 years, I know that they are fundamentally different demographics.
The average age of a Costco member is about 45 with six figure incomes, while for Wal-Mart/Sam's Club it's about 35 with incomes under $50,000 per year.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
There's no arguing that young people shop at Costco, and that rich people shop at Wal-Mart, but I'm telling you, having done research for Costco on their membership and Sam's Club membership for the past 20 years, I know that they are fundamentally different demographics.
The average age of a Costco member is about 45 with six figure incomes, while for Wal-Mart/Sam's Club it's about 35 with incomes under $50,000 per year.
That "average age" doesn't help any, you need to show breakdowns of the different demographics that shop there. There might be a larger bulk of older people that shop at Costco then at Wal-Mart, but there is still a group of younger people that shop there and I'd like to see the breakdown of such before dismissing the young people as an insignificant part of the Costco customer base.
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
There's no arguing that young people shop at Costco, and that rich people shop at Wal-Mart, but I'm telling you, having done research for Costco on their membership and Sam's Club membership for the past 20 years, I know that they are fundamentally different demographics.
The average age of a Costco member is about 45 with six figure incomes, while for Wal-Mart/Sam's Club it's about 35 with incomes under $50,000 per year.
That "average age" doesn't help any, you need to show breakdowns of the different demographics that shop there. There might be a larger bulk of older people that shop at Costco then at Wal-Mart, but there is still a group of younger people that shop there and I'd like to see the breakdown of such before dismissing the young people as an insignificant part of the Costco customer base.
I know what the breakdown is, but for obvious reasons I can't show you. I can say that the proportion of Costco members under age 30 is less than 10%, while at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club it's more like 25%. It certainly differs by geography; if a bunch of colleges are located nearby Costco's, the probability is that some of those students will shop at Costco, and will therefore over-index in these demographics. Overall, however, Costco's members are older.
Interestingly, very few Costco members are over age 60 as well (less than 15%), which means that this group is under-represented as a proportion of the population. Wal-Mart over-represents in these age groups. Older and younger people (who often have lower incomes than people in their 30's, 40's and 50's) over-index at Wal-Mart.
As far as dismissing younger people, that's not the point of the discussion. Younger people (under 30 years of age) are under-represented as Costco members relative to their proportion of the population over 18 years of age. It doesn't mean they're not important, but it does mean that Costco serves a very different demographic than does Wal-Mart.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
Howedar wrote:The line is more blurred than you might think.
They're really not that blurred. 20 years of research data tell me that Costco customers are very different from Sam's Club customers. The demographics aren't even in the same range.
I would expect recent data to show much less divison than old data.
Howedar wrote:The line is more blurred than you might think.
They're really not that blurred. 20 years of research data tell me that Costco customers are very different from Sam's Club customers. The demographics aren't even in the same range.
I would expect recent data to show much less divison than old data.
I'm referring to October 2004 data, a representative probability sample of 1000 US Costco members.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
They're really not that blurred. 20 years of research data tell me that Costco customers are very different from Sam's Club customers. The demographics aren't even in the same range.
I would expect recent data to show much less divison than old data.
I'm referring to October 2004 data, a representative probability sample of 1000 US Costco members.
What about the data about Sam's Club members? Are those from areas that also have a Costco, or are they nationwide? The Sam's Club statistics could be skewed if they do nationwide surveys that include poorer, middle-of-nowhere areas where there are no Costcos or similar competition.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!
SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
Howedar wrote:I would expect recent data to show much less divison than old data.
I'm referring to October 2004 data, a representative probability sample of 1000 US Costco members.
What about the data about Sam's Club members? Are those from areas that also have a Costco, or are they nationwide? The Sam's Club statistics could be skewed if they do nationwide surveys that include poorer, middle-of-nowhere areas where there are no Costcos or similar competition.
This particular study included data from Sam's Club and BJ's club members only in locations where Costco also operates. So it doesn't include data from Podunk, Kentucky if there isn't a Costco there. We have done studies of Sam's Club and BJ's member independent of Costco, however, and nationwide, they tend to index even lower in income than in locations with Costco.
Costco doesn't place warehouses in low income areas, while Wal-Mart or Sam's Club target lower income areas extensively. In areas where there are both Sam's Clubs and Costco's, they still draw from a different customer base. Something like 10% of Costco members also have a Sam's Club membership, which is pretty low. It tends to be one or the other, not both.
In Brazil they say that Pele was the best, but Garrincha was better
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
This particular study included data from Sam's Club and BJ's club members only in locations where Costco also operates. So it doesn't include data from Podunk, Kentucky if there isn't a Costco there. We have done studies of Sam's Club and BJ's member independent of Costco, however, and nationwide, they tend to index even lower in income than in locations with Costco.
Costco doesn't place warehouses in low income areas, while Wal-Mart or Sam's Club target lower income areas extensively. In areas where there are both Sam's Clubs and Costco's, they still draw from a different customer base. Something like 10% of Costco members also have a Sam's Club membership, which is pretty low. It tends to be one or the other, not both.
Ah, interesting. Thank you.
DPDarkPrimus is my boyfriend!
SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
Howedar wrote:The line is more blurred than you might think.
They're really not that blurred. 20 years of research data tell me that Costco customers are very different from Sam's Club customers. The demographics aren't even in the same range.
Maybe it's because WalMart/Sam's Club is in areas with a large number of blue-collar workers, such as the Appalachian Region, and especially WV. I have yet to even hear of a Costco anywhere in WV. Here, the upperclass go to Sams, the lower class (like me) go to WalMarts cause we don't have the money to spare for a membership to Sams.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Costco doesn't place warehouses in low income areas, while Wal-Mart or Sam's Club target lower income areas extensively.
Well, that explains why there's upteen-dozen WalMarts in WV, and not one single Costco.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
SancheztheWhaler wrote:
I'm referring to October 2004 data, a representative probability sample of 1000 US Costco members.
What about the data about Sam's Club members? Are those from areas that also have a Costco, or are they nationwide? The Sam's Club statistics could be skewed if they do nationwide surveys that include poorer, middle-of-nowhere areas where there are no Costcos or similar competition.
This particular study included data from Sam's Club and BJ's club members only in locations where Costco also operates. So it doesn't include data from Podunk, Kentucky if there isn't a Costco there. We have done studies of Sam's Club and BJ's member independent of Costco, however, and nationwide, they tend to index even lower in income than in locations with Costco.
Costco doesn't place warehouses in low income areas, while Wal-Mart or Sam's Club target lower income areas extensively. In areas where there are both Sam's Clubs and Costco's, they still draw from a different customer base. Something like 10% of Costco members also have a Sam's Club membership, which is pretty low. It tends to be one or the other, not both.
I had Sam's Club for the last 18 months because I lived about 2 miles from the new one in Renton, no Costco nearby (mostly wanted the cheap gas) .... now that I'm back in West Seattle I'm going back to Costco, so they better hurry up and finish rebuilding the new flagship store at the south end of downtown!
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon" Operation Freedom Fry
