Indonesia wants foreign troops out in three months

[Joe]

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050112/1/3psy7.html

Indonesia told foreign troops helping tsunami victims to get out of the country soon and defended tough new restrictions on aid workers, while rich nations prepared to freeze Jakarta's debt repayments.

Vice President Yusuf Kalla said foreign troops should leave tsunami-hit Aceh province on Sumatra island as soon as they finish their relief mission, staying no longer than three months.

"Three months are enough. In fact, the sooner the better," Kalla was quoted by the state Antara news agency as saying.

The armed forces of Australia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore and the United States have all rushed task forces to Aceh in the wake of the December 26 disaster which killed at least 106,500 Indonesians out of a total of more than 159,000 deaths in Asia.

United Nations officials struggling to coordinate a massive relief operation have welcomed their participation, particularly to deliver aid to isolated coastlines accessible only by sea or air.

But their presence in Indonesian territory has been a sensitive issue for the world's largest Muslim-populated nation which has traditionally kept foreign military, particularly the United States and Australia, at arm's length.

The vice president said Aceh in the near future would need foreign medical workers and engineers instead of military assistance.

"Foreign troops are no longer needed," he said.

Kalla's comments came after the country's military imposed sweeping new restrictions on foreign relief workers operating in Aceh, claiming they were in danger from rebels waging a long-running separatist war.

But an Indonesian doctor whose ordeal at the hands of rebels has been used to justify the government restrictions disputed the official version of the incident.

Mulia Hasyimi, the head of Aceh's health office, confirmed he was seized by the rebels, but told AFP he was not shot and his time in captivity lasted less than an hour, contrary to government claims he was reputedly held for several days and shot.

Analysts have said they believe the government move was an attempt to reassert the military's control over the province, an accusation the government has denied.

Senior officials said foreign journalists would also be confined to major towns in the province, closing a post-disaster window of press freedom in the region which was locked down almost two years ago during a military offensive.

Indonesian troops have already begun accompanying United Nations missions to help victims of the tsunami and liaison officers are to be posted on the scores of foreign navy ships and military and civilian aircraft bringing in thousands of tonnes of emergency supplies.

Despite statements from Free Aceh Movement rebels, known as GAM, pledging the safety of volunteers, Welfare Minister Alwi Shihab said the government was concerned attacks on aid staff could scare off foreign assistance.

The emergency phase of the tsunami relief effort in Aceh is not moving fast enough and is likely to last three more months, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's special humanitarian envoy said Wednesday.

Margareta Wahlstrom said relief work was progressing at a comparable pace to other tsunami-hit countries, given that the scale of destruction in Indonesia was so much greater, but that was still not fast enough.

Wahlstrom said she remained concerned with inadequate coordination among all groups taking part in the relief effort.

"There are a lot of resources, many organisations here. What we have to do is ensure better interfacing. That's our priority. Things need to move a little faster," she said.

However she said new government regulations imposed on foreign aid workers and journalists in Aceh province were not impeding the relief effort.

"I don't see these as restrictions. They are not saying you cannot go. They are saying, let us know when you go," Wahlstrom said.

Meanwhile, government creditors in the Paris Club of wealthy nations were set to agree at a meeting in the French capital Wednesday on freezing debt repayments by countries hit by the disaster.

Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Seychelles "will be the three countries I think which will accept this proposition," French Finance Minister Herve Gaymard told French radio Radio France Internationale.

Other countries affected, like Thailand and Malaysia, have "a lower level of indebtedness than the others and do not want their credit rating to be downgraded on the international financial markets," he explained.

Indonesia's foreign debt comes to about 132 billion dollars, and the country is looking at three billion dollars in payments this year to service that debt.

In Sri Lanka, an aid package estimated at about three billion dollars was being worked out as the island seeks to recover from the disaster which left more than 30,000 dead across the country.

Officials from the World Bank, the Asian Development Bank and the Japan International Cooperation Agency were in talks with the Sri Lankan government to work out the reconstruction plan.

On Tuesday, the United Nations secured 717 million dollars in record time for tsunami victims in Asia -- 73 percent of a 977-million-dollar appeal launched last week to meet immediate needs in the next six months.

Some nine billion dollars has been pledged worldwide in short and long term aid after the disaster.

The figure, obtained by an AFP count, includes government money, donations pledged in an unprecedented outpouring of global public sympathy -- "humanity at its best," Egeland said -- as well as debt relief and loans.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Whatever it takes. I can understand their apprehension at having such forces in the area, but they'd better make sure they've got their shit together when the pull out arrives.

[Alyeska]

I find it highly amussing that the two countries providing the most direct assistance to Indonesia are the two that are least desired.

[BoredShirtless]

I find it highly amussing that the two countries providing the most direct assistance to Indonesia are the two that are least desired.

It's not that funny, when you think about it. Australia took the side against the government in an Indonesian internal conflict, helping seperatists in East Timor to...seperate. Australia and the US invaded Iraq, without just cause. From Indonesias POV, Australia and the US are rogue nations.

[Illuminatus Primus]

It's not that funny, when you think about it. Australia took the side against the government in an Indonesian internal conflict, helping seperatists in East Timor to...seperate. Australia and the US invaded Iraq, without just cause. From Indonesias POV, Australia and the US are rogue nations.

Yes, because Indonesia did not unilaterally invade East Timor when it was abandoned by Portugal in '75. Blinders, dipshit? They originally wished to be independent. Suharto decided otherwise.

And rogue states by definition eskew things like human rights and popular rule. As fun as it is for you to bounce about one your "moral equivalency of the backward despotic Third World and the evil West," your rhetorical games impress no one, and continue to discredit you as a poster of worth.

[BoredShirtless]

It's not that funny, when you think about it. Australia took the side against the government in an Indonesian internal conflict, helping seperatists in East Timor to...seperate. Australia and the US invaded Iraq, without just cause. From Indonesias POV, Australia and the US are rogue nations.

Yes, because Indonesia did not unilaterally invade East Timor when it was abandoned by Portugal in '75. Blinders, dipshit? They originally wished to be independent. Suharto decided otherwise.

I wrote from Indonesias POV, not mine. Dumbass. Learn to read.

And rogue states by definition eskew things like human rights and popular rule. As fun as it is for you to bounce about one your "moral equivalency of the backward despotic Third World and the evil West," your rhetorical games impress no one, and continue to discredit you as a poster of worth.

I'm not playing any games, nor did I use rhetoric. That's the way Indonesia sees the US and Australia, it's a fact. But because you aren't emotionally stable, when I type something bad about the US, you automatically assume it's coming from me. I'm the messenger here in other words. Moron.

[Alyeska]

When you commented that what I said wasn't funny, you put your own POV into the rest of what you talked about.

Besides, Indonesia doesn't have any place to bitch about the rest of the worlds morality when theirs is so fucked up.

[BoredShirtless]

When you commented that what I said wasn't funny, you put your own POV into the rest of what you talked about.

Right. It isn't funny. What's your point?

[Alyrium Denryle]

All they are doing is hurting their own people.

[Illuminatus Primus]

I wrote from Indonesias POV, not mine. Dumbass. Learn to read.

Their POV is crocked from a pragmatic point of view and from a moral point of view. That's what everyone's complaining about. The fact they have a POV matters precisely dick.

I'm not playing any games, nor did I use rhetoric. That's the way Indonesia sees the US and Australia, it's a fact.

You quoted the Foriegn Minister? I do not see any "facts," Shitless.

But because you aren't emotionally stable, when I type something bad about the US, you automatically assume it's coming from me. I'm the messenger here in other words. Moron.

No, because you took a few historical facts, conjectured a possible POV, and then treated it like utter unambiguous fact. Sorry moron, but when you go to anti-West shit like maggots to meat, people assume you're a whacko. And you've proved it many a time.

[Axis Kast]

Shitless is correct.

While I mightn't have used the same words to describe the situation - I doubt, for example, most Indonesians take the time to articulate opinions that the U.S. and Australia are "rogue" states -, his analysis that the government might be wary of offending its own Muslim population is indeed credible. Not to mention Indonesia's resentment at Australia's intervention in what was deemed to be an internal matter.

[Alyeska]

When you commented that what I said wasn't funny, you put your own POV into the rest of what you talked about.

Right. It isn't funny. What's your point?

That Indonesia must rely on the two nations it detests the most is actualy very funny.

[BoredShirtless]

I'm not playing any games, nor did I use rhetoric. That's the way Indonesia sees the US and Australia, it's a fact.

You quoted the Foriegn Minister? I do not see any "facts," Shitless.

That's too bad. Maybe you need to learn how to use google, along with your lessons on how to read, asshole.

But because you aren't emotionally stable, when I type something bad about the US, you automatically assume it's coming from me. I'm the messenger here in other words. Moron.

No, because you took a few historical facts, conjectured a possible POV, and then treated it like utter unambiguous fact.

You're wrong. That isn't my opinion, and you'd know that if you had been paying attention to international news for the last couple of years.

Sorry moron, but when you go to anti-West shit like maggots to meat, people assume you're a whacko. And you've proved it many a time.

Anti-West? Moron, how am I anti-West?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Shitless is correct.

While I mightn't have used the same words to describe the situation - I doubt, for example, most Indonesians take the time to articulate opinions that the U.S. and Australia are "rogue" states -, his analysis that the government might be wary of offending its own Muslim population is indeed credible. Not to mention Indonesia's resentment at Australia's intervention in what was deemed to be an internal matter.

Maybe they could handle it themselves if they weren't a degenerate Third World Islamic happy land.

[MKSheppard]

Let us withdraw our CVBGs and all our assorted assets now. We are spending
$6 MILLION dollars A DAY out of US Department of Defense funding to help
these ungrateful little shits.

[Axis Kast]

Maybe they could handle it themselves if they weren't a degenerate Third World Islamic happy land.

Irrelevant. The argument still stands: Indonesians dislike the United States and Australia for a number of reasons, ranging from the War on Terror - which is percieved to be anti-Muslim - to Australia's support for East Timorean independence.

Let us withdraw our CVBGs and all our assorted assets now. We are spending
$6 MILLION dollars A DAY out of US Department of Defense funding to help
these ungrateful little shits.

The public relations fallout would be absolutely massive.

If you think the bleeding hearts were wimpering about the need to prove America's superpower by sharing its superwealth before, just think about what kind of uproar making an about-face would cause.

And that's not including stunned responses from the East Asian and Muslim communities, which would doubtless cry "foul" on Bush.

[MKSheppard]

And that's not including stunned responses from the East Asian and Muslim communities, which would doubtless cry "foul" on Bush.

Fuck em, we'll redeploy the CVBG to Thailand or some other state, which
is happy to accept our aid.

[Chmee]

That'll show our elevated level of civilization ... a government spokesman says a couple critical things about us so we pack up and let a few hundred thousand people suffer. Let's be that shining city on a hill! Cue the music, my GOD we're so fucking noble it makes my teeth ache!

[MKSheppard]

Cue the music, my GOD we're so fucking noble it makes my teeth ache!

Nobility my ass. The Thais deserve our help more than those islamic fuckheads in Indonesia who want to take our aid, but tell us to leave
in three months

[BoredShirtless]

Cue the music, my GOD we're so fucking noble it makes my teeth ache!

Nobility my ass. The Thais deserve our help more than those islamic fuckheads in Indonesia who want to take our aid, but tell us to leave
in three months

The Indonesians deserve it more, if you measure by the level of damage and death. But if you measure by manners, then you're right. Which would you like to measure by?

[Mayabird]

Maybe they just don't want other people with guns around when they go back to their civil war.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 13,00.html

[Admiral Valdemar]

Maybe they just don't want other people with guns around when they go back to their civil war.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 13,00.html

*Sigh*

Sometimes I have to wonder why humanity even deserves to survive any disaster. If this wasn't a wake-up call, then I guess extinction is all that's left.

[Stofsk]

Nobility my ass. The Thais deserve our help more than those islamic fuckheads in Indonesia who want to take our aid, but tell us to leave in three months

Who cares what some arsehole VP says about what we're doing there? The point is, we're helping, which is more that can be said for the pencil dicked politician. If he doesn't like us being there then he can quite frankly lick my arse, because I don't give a shit. It's when the people we're rescuing and helping turn around and say, "We don't want you." That's when we leave.

Not that this doesn't make me angry. The petty part of me wants to leave them to rot, let them fuck themselves over.

[Glocksman]

Not that this doesn't make me angry. The petty part of me wants to leave them to rot, let them fuck themselves over.

Indeed.

When I saw that picture a while back of 2 aid workers carrying some guy on a stretcher and a bystander was wearing an Osama bin Laden T-shirt, my initial reaction was 'let 'em rot'.
Then I realized that for every one asshole like that, there's probably 1000 who don't give a damn about politics and they need our help.

Though I wouldn't be unduly upset if the asshole in the bin Laden shirt was 'accidentally' run over by a truck.

[Chmee]

Imagine an aid team of 5,000 Ethiopians or Kenyans responding to a disaster in South Carolina or Georgia. Think they wouldn't see and hear shit to make them ask themselves why they bothered?

Every country has its share of ignorant pricks .....