Next generation Imperial weapons

[Big Phil]

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that weapons systems are designed for specific purposes. By suggesting changes to existing Imperial technology, you are all sugguesting that there are flaws in that technology, and I don't agree that the flaws exist.

I think this is the misunderstanding. The way i see it, the idea here is adding to current applications of technology rather than outright replacing them. Much of the tech we see in ST was probably discarded ages ago, but it's not as if Trek's going to follow the exact same path of technological evolution as the SW galaxy did. No doubt at some points in history, ST cultures have had to further develop some tech to the point of usefulness where SW adopted a newly discovered better method. It's just that with an entire other galaxy of variations, developments and scales, the SW galaxy could add the more unique examples of treknology to its knowledge base. The isolation of factions due to the sluggishness of warp drive would have contributed to this rich variation. All the skills and knowledge in working with such primitive technology that have fallen out of use for thousands of years could offer new insights into niche applications or give a corporation a competitive edge.

In your earlier analogy of the Spaniards adopting obsidian-tipped arrows, bullets and arrows are basically the same thing. Obviously TLs aren't going to be replaced by phaser strips, but maybe engineering hurdles that the SW galaxy never had to leap regarding NDF tech could revitalise the mining industries? There's an entire galaxy that's just been conquered.

The only technology that doesn't seem to have some parallel in Star Wars is transporter technology, but given the semi-religious hatred of clones in the Star Wars galaxy, perhaps there are philosophical reasons why this isn't used or wasn't developed. Assuming there are no philosophical reasons, I don't see any reason why the Empire wouldn't adopt transporters for moving cargo around.

Well then they should already be using them. AFAIK nothing like transporter tech has ever been even mentioned in SW (except Luke's whimsical 'teleport me off this rock'), so i guess it's possible the principle was lost in the mists of time or even never saw application. Perhaps transporter tech is a mere Imperial lab curiosity which is considered totally impractical simply because it wasn't economic enough to ever fund. Or then think of all the shipping corporations and transport ship manufacturers who would kill to maintain the status quo.

I hear what you're saying, but I just don't agree. You dismissed the Aztec/Spaniard analogy by saying that arrows and guns are the same. Well, their function is the same (kill people), but the approach is completely different (chemical reaction propelling a projectile vs. human powered projectile).

Also, you'd have to show that there wasn't something that was already better in SW Universe, and I have a hard time believing that any military applications of Star Trek technology haven't already been utilized (and discarded?) in the natural course of technological development in the SW Universe.

As far as revitalizing the mining industries, SW can build particles from (at least) the sub-atomic level. Remember the droid manufacturing plant in Attack of the Clones? Droids were being assembled in a very quick process that can only be achieved by manipulating the matter that is being assembled. It was no normal production line, in other words. Given this capability, why wouldn't the Empire be able to effeciently mine every last resource from its planets and solar systems? Why would they need Federation technology 20,000 years less advanced?

[Lord of the Farce]

Given this capability, why wouldn't the Empire be able to effeciently mine every last resource from its planets and solar systems? Why would they need Federation technology 20,000 years less advanced?

Particularly when you consider the fact that Bespin city (and its Tibana gas operation) was "too small" to be worthy of attention of the Empire, and it's around the same size as the Federation's largest space station.

Hell, Coruscant alone should be proof enough of vastly superior mining capabilities.

[Admiral Bravo]

You cannot argue that Star Wars does not have the phase cloak. Perhaps they developed a phase cloak, but also developed countermeasures that made the phase cloak obsolete? Perhaps they once used phaser strips, but then realized that turbolasers offered fewer disadvantages and greater firepower.

Im not even going to respond to the first part of your post just because its so idiotic. Take a look at the other posts on this thread no ones going around saying that the Empires going to adapt anti-matter or phaser strips. The Empire is only going to adapt the tech that is USEFULL to them like the genesis device or transporters or the phase cloak.
For the second part of your post I am not implying that Star Wars might have not developed this tech but since were dealing with the Empire and were basing what tech they have from the movies, books, comics, games,etc we can assume that they havent bothered looking into it for their own reasons.

Go fuck yourself Bravo. There is absolutely no evidence that ANY Star Trek technology would be useful to Star Wars. Star Wars is thousands of years more advanced than Star Trek, and for you to dismiss this as idiotic shows just how much a retard you are.

As far as calling my post idiotic, and then appealing to eeryone else on this board, go fuck yourself. You're assuming that a civilization is going to find all sorts of useful technology, that they've never had before, from a civilization 20,000 years less advanced than they are? You think phaser strips are so much fucking better than turbolasers, than prove it asshole.

You make all sorts of unsubstantiated claims, that the Empire will add shielding to AT-AT's, that TIE's will receive improvements, that Stormtrooper armor is in need of improvement. Do you really think that the engineers who designed the AT-AT didn't consider shielding and discard it for some reason? Did it ever occur to you that Stormtrooper armor does an excellent job of protecting its wearer, or that tricorders give away the users position? Since the Empire has duplicator technology, why would they need replicators, which do exactly the same thing?

Why don't you grow a fucking brain and show WHY the Empire would take this technology, instead of insulting people who suggest reasons why your fantasy of Star Trek possessing vast quantities of undiscovered (by the Empire) technology might be a little unrealistic.

Alright calm down for christs sake. I am not saying that the Federation or Star Trek in general is superior to the Empire in any way. Just because I say that maybe the Empire would adapt something DOES NOT mean that there going to use everything they find. Maybe the Star Wars galaxy did develop transporters, we dont know. If they didnt why not use them, if they did and decided to abondon it thats fine. Also my improvments to the Empire are based on what I see. Walkers with shields is based on the military walkers catalogue in Dr. Saxtons site who does mention a very large walker that would be quite capable of carrying shields. Tie Fighters with improvments, well if the Empire is fighting other galaxy that are on the same tech level as them then it would be wise to improve them so that they can pose a bigger threat. Upgraded stormtrooper armor I'll admit was a stupid idea as it is quite alright how it is right now. Frankly though I dont know why you keep bringing up the whole "adapting Fed tech such as transporters for the Empire" thing. This thread is about what kind of weapons the Empire would need to develop to fight other galaxies, not the Federation, who are on par with the Empire. So it seems to me that your the one who needs to grow a fucking brain instead of barging in and screaming without even taking time to read this thread.

[Admiral Bravo]

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that weapons systems are designed for specific purposes. By suggesting changes to existing Imperial technology, you are all sugguesting that there are flaws in that technology, and I don't agree that the flaws exist.

I think this is the misunderstanding. The way i see it, the idea here is adding to current applications of technology rather than outright replacing them. Much of the tech we see in ST was probably discarded ages ago, but it's not as if Trek's going to follow the exact same path of technological evolution as the SW galaxy did. No doubt at some points in history, ST cultures have had to further develop some tech to the point of usefulness where SW adopted a newly discovered better method. It's just that with an entire other galaxy of variations, developments and scales, the SW galaxy could add the more unique examples of treknology to its knowledge base. The isolation of factions due to the sluggishness of warp drive would have contributed to this rich variation. All the skills and knowledge in working with such primitive technology that have fallen out of use for thousands of years could offer new insights into niche applications or give a corporation a competitive edge.

In your earlier analogy of the Spaniards adopting obsidian-tipped arrows, bullets and arrows are basically the same thing. Obviously TLs aren't going to be replaced by phaser strips, but maybe engineering hurdles that the SW galaxy never had to leap regarding NDF tech could revitalise the mining industries? There's an entire galaxy that's just been conquered.

The only technology that doesn't seem to have some parallel in Star Wars is transporter technology, but given the semi-religious hatred of clones in the Star Wars galaxy, perhaps there are philosophical reasons why this isn't used or wasn't developed. Assuming there are no philosophical reasons, I don't see any reason why the Empire wouldn't adopt transporters for moving cargo around.

Well then they should already be using them. AFAIK nothing like transporter tech has ever been even mentioned in SW (except Luke's whimsical 'teleport me off this rock'), so i guess it's possible the principle was lost in the mists of time or even never saw application. Perhaps transporter tech is a mere Imperial lab curiosity which is considered totally impractical simply because it wasn't economic enough to ever fund. Or then think of all the shipping corporations and transport ship manufacturers who would kill to maintain the status quo.

Thank You. This is exactly what I have been trying to say. Star Trek most likely is not going to evolve tech wise like Star Wars so there might be a few unique technologies. Of course the Empire like you said might have looked into the idea and decided to abandon it for some reason. The Empire isnt going to start using phaser or photon torpedos just because we have never seen it being used. Only a idiot would belive that they would descard there immensly powerful turbolaser for a pathitic phaser.

[Big Phil]

Im not even going to respond to the first part of your post just because its so idiotic. Take a look at the other posts on this thread no ones going around saying that the Empires going to adapt anti-matter or phaser strips. /Snip

Alright calm down for christs sake. I am not saying that the Federation or Star Trek in general is superior to the Empire in any way. Just because I say that maybe the Empire would adapt something DOES NOT mean that there going to use everything they find. Maybe the Star Wars galaxy did develop transporters, we dont know. If they didnt why not use them, if they did and decided to abondon it thats fine. Also my improvments to the Empire are based on what I see. Walkers with shields is based on the military walkers catalogue in Dr. Saxtons site who does mention a very large walker that would be quite capable of carrying shields. Tie Fighters with improvments, well if the Empire is fighting other galaxy that are on the same tech level as them then it would be wise to improve them so that they can pose a bigger threat. Upgraded stormtrooper armor I'll admit was a stupid idea as it is quite alright how it is right now. Frankly though I dont know why you keep bringing up the whole "adapting Fed tech such as transporters for the Empire" thing. This thread is about what kind of weapons the Empire would need to develop to fight other galaxies, not the Federation, who are on par with the Empire. So it seems to me that your the one who needs to grow a fucking brain instead of barging in and screaming without even taking time to read this thread.

Perhaps you don't understand why I got pissed. I'll explain it using small words: You were an asshole. If you had simply responded without being a shitbrick I would have responded much more politely, as I have to others in this thread.

None of my posts, until my response to you, were angry or insulting. I simply pointed out that an Empire at the limits of scientific development, who has not made substantial scientific advances in the past 25,000 years, is unlikely to overnight develop whole hosts of new weapon systems, especially when their current systems work just fine.

[Big Phil]

Fuck, I got the quotes reversed. The one labeled Admiral Bravo was me, and the one below that was Admiral Bravo. Can somebody edit that, please?

[Bellator]

not really technology...but wouldn't one suppose that all those telepathic races in ST would prove quite usefull to the Empire? I know there are telepaths in SW, but from what I know they aren't as plentiful as in ST (where every other race encountered seems to be telepathic in some way).

[Big Phil]

not really technology...but wouldn't one suppose that all those telepathic races in ST would prove quite usefull to the Empire? I know there are telepaths in SW, but from what I know they aren't as plentiful as in ST (where every other race encountered seems to be telepathic in some way).

How would you see the Empire utilizing them? Enslave them and force them to do your bidding? Or recruit them into the armed forces and hav them perform psychological warfare functions?

[Techno_Union]

Whoops, sorry for not replying sooner.

What was the firepower of these earlier weapons? In KOTOR, the Sith Lord Malak's flagship (one ship) destroys the planet Taris. Unfortunately we don't know how complete the destruction was or how long it took.

Don't know the yields, but from what I understand, simply looking at the bombardment of Taris did not show any yield close to the more modern Imperial yields. Not to mention the fact that throughout SW, weapon yields are commonly escalating from a few GTs, to a few hundred, to a few TT, etc. Also look at the superlaser, its scale constantly went up.

As for Bevel Lemelisk - he was an arrogant self-promoter who exaggerated his own importance and capabilities.

And that has to do with? He was still a leading expert in the Empire on terror weapons.

Furthermore, Lemelisk was an engineer, who utilized existing science and technology and developed new applications for them. He didn't "invent" superlaser technology; he designed the largest superlaser in history.

Um, where did I say he "invented" the superlaser? Actually, I don't think once I actually mention a superlaser. As a matter of fact, I was looking at him designing the newer Galaxy Gun; a technology that wasn't around before DE II. I suggest you read my post a little more carefully.

I always took the view that scientific advancement in Star Wars was pretty stagnant, and that most improvements were cosmetic rather than new technology. It would seem to me that if you're using turbolasers and blasters 5000 years before ANH, and you're using the same technology 5000 years later, then things probably haven't changed too much.

But there are newer technologies being developed, just not on some huge-scale that would have affected the entire SW galaxy. What do you think the Maw Instillation was used for? The Sun Crusher, Galaxy Gun, quantum armor, newer cloaks, resonance torps, etc are all examples of new to relatively new technology being developed. Now, I have no problem saying that the Old Republic was stagnant because heck, it was, but the Empire was not by comparison as stagnant.

[wolveraptor]

What makes any of you think the Empire would adopt Federation technology? An analogy would be the Spaniards adopting obsidian-tipped spears and arrows after their conquest of the Aztec and Incan Empires, or the British adopting Spears after the Zulu Wars. Perhaps we don't see phase cloaks, phaser strips, and antimatter weapons in Star Wars because it is old technology, and it's irrelevant at their technology level.

You cannot argue that Star Wars does not have the phase cloak. Perhaps they developed a phase cloak, but also developed countermeasures that made the phase cloak obsolete? Perhaps they once used phaser strips, but then realized that turbolasers offered fewer disadvantages and greater firepower.

interestingly, some south american natives had already developed crude brain surgery, before the spanish had even gotten there. so while they were not above the spaniards in weapons technology, there were other facets. it isn't so 1 sided.

[NecronLord]

interestingly, some south american natives had already developed crude brain surgery, before the spanish had even gotten there. so while they were not above the spaniards in weapons technology, there were other facets. it isn't so 1 sided.

Trepanning is closer to skull surgery than brain surgery.

[Imperial Overlord]

Here's a funny note. A Jewish physician successfully performed cataract surgery in the 15th century. It was on Ferdinand I's father or grandfather and performed the first one on one eye (so if it went wrong, the king wouldn't be blinded). It worked, the king ordered a second operation, and the physician refused, saying the stars weren't right. The king insisted and the surgery was successful.

[Winston Blake]

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is that weapons systems are designed for specific purposes. By suggesting changes to existing Imperial technology, you are all sugguesting that there are flaws in that technology, and I don't agree that the flaws exist.

I think this is the misunderstanding. The way i see it, the idea here is adding to current applications of technology rather than outright replacing them. Much of the tech we see in ST was probably discarded ages ago, but it's not as if Trek's going to follow the exact same path of technological evolution as the SW galaxy did. No doubt at some points in history, ST cultures have had to further develop some tech to the point of usefulness where SW adopted a newly discovered better method. It's just that with an entire other galaxy of variations, developments and scales, the SW galaxy could add the more unique examples of treknology to its knowledge base. The isolation of factions due to the sluggishness of warp drive would have contributed to this rich variation. All the skills and knowledge in working with such primitive technology that have fallen out of use for thousands of years could offer new insights into niche applications or give a corporation a competitive edge.

In your earlier analogy of the Spaniards adopting obsidian-tipped arrows, bullets and arrows are basically the same thing. Obviously TLs aren't going to be replaced by phaser strips, but maybe engineering hurdles that the SW galaxy never had to leap regarding NDF tech could revitalise the mining industries? There's an entire galaxy that's just been conquered.

The only technology that doesn't seem to have some parallel in Star Wars is transporter technology, but given the semi-religious hatred of clones in the Star Wars galaxy, perhaps there are philosophical reasons why this isn't used or wasn't developed. Assuming there are no philosophical reasons, I don't see any reason why the Empire wouldn't adopt transporters for moving cargo around.

Well then they should already be using them. AFAIK nothing like transporter tech has ever been even mentioned in SW (except Luke's whimsical 'teleport me off this rock'), so i guess it's possible the principle was lost in the mists of time or even never saw application. Perhaps transporter tech is a mere Imperial lab curiosity which is considered totally impractical simply because it wasn't economic enough to ever fund. Or then think of all the shipping corporations and transport ship manufacturers who would kill to maintain the status quo.

I hear what you're saying, but I just don't agree. You dismissed the Aztec/Spaniard analogy by saying that arrows and guns are the same. Well, their function is the same (kill people), but the approach is completely different (chemical reaction propelling a projectile vs. human powered projectile).

I said 'basically' the same, since both arrows and bullets are essentially hard pointed projectiles flying fast enough to kill someone. Phasers and turbolasers both fill the role of a shipboard directed energy weapon, but although the device principles are different (just like explosive vs elastic), the nature of the discharge is also completely different (the most obvious property being NDF). I'm saying that the bow was replaced by the firearm in the role of 'hard fast pointy projectile weapon', but your analogy isnt quite right since phasers don't fire watered-down TL bolts or vice-versa, so the idea of a fixed technological 'advancement' path from phasers to turbolasers isn't necessarily valid.

Also, you'd have to show that there wasn't something that was already better in SW Universe, and I have a hard time believing that any military applications of Star Trek technology haven't already been utilized (and discarded?) in the natural course of technological development in the SW Universe.

'Better' can refer to lots of properties, and tech development could take an intricate web of possible courses. No doubt phasers were never used as shipboard weapons because, as you said, something was already better. The SW galaxy could still learn about the nature of phaser principles from a galaxy where that technology was the most common shipboard directed energy weapon, and so was applied and studied intensely. I'm just saying that since the SW galaxy never had any need to go down those roads, the fruits of a galaxy's-worth of research could be integrated into the general knowledge base, possibly enabling useful innovations.

As far as revitalizing the mining industries, SW can build particles from (at least) the sub-atomic level. Remember the droid manufacturing plant in Attack of the Clones? Droids were being assembled in a very quick process that can only be achieved by manipulating the matter that is being assembled. It was no normal production line, in other words. Given this capability, why wouldn't the Empire be able to effeciently mine every last resource from its planets and solar systems? Why would they need Federation technology 20,000 years less advanced?

Well, the mining thing was just an off-the-cuff example, i'm sure you can think of better ones.

[Big Phil]

Whoops, sorry for not replying sooner.

What was the firepower of these earlier weapons? In KOTOR, the Sith Lord Malak's flagship (one ship) destroys the planet Taris. Unfortunately we don't know how complete the destruction was or how long it took.

Don't know the yields, but from what I understand, simply looking at the bombardment of Taris did not show any yield close to the more modern Imperial yields. Not to mention the fact that throughout SW, weapon yields are commonly escalating from a few GTs, to a few hundred, to a few TT, etc. Also look at the superlaser, its scale constantly went up.

Can you provide supporting evidence for your statement that weapon yields increase from a few GT's to a few TT's? Or for the Taris bombardment being weaker than Imperial yields?

Furthermore, Lemelisk was an engineer, who utilized existing science and technology and developed new applications for them. He didn't "invent" superlaser technology; he designed the largest superlaser in history.

Um, where did I say he "invented" the superlaser? Actually, I don't think once I actually mention a superlaser. As a matter of fact, I was looking at him designing the newer Galaxy Gun; a technology that wasn't around before DE II. I suggest you read my post a little more carefully.

I responded to his design of the Death Star and you were discussing the Galaxy Gun. My point, however, still stands. Bevel Lemelisk and his team designed new applications for existing technology; we don't know when the science behind the Sun Crusher, Galaxy Gun, or quantum armor was developed. Lemelisk developed a weapon system which had apparently never existed before, so I'll grant you this point.

I always took the view that scientific advancement in Star Wars was pretty stagnant, and that most improvements were cosmetic rather than new technology. It would seem to me that if you're using turbolasers and blasters 5000 years before ANH, and you're using the same technology 5000 years later, then things probably haven't changed too much.

But there are newer technologies being developed, just not on some huge-scale that would have affected the entire SW galaxy. What do you think the Maw Instillation was used for? The Sun Crusher, Galaxy Gun, quantum armor, newer cloaks, resonance torps, etc are all examples of new to relatively new technology being developed. Now, I have no problem saying that the Old Republic was stagnant because heck, it was, but the Empire was not by comparison as stagnant.

But once again, we're talking about different applications of existing technology, not quantum leaps in scientific advancement. I'll grant that the Empire was very creative in finding new and better ways to kill people and destroy ships and planets, but that doesn't equate to technological advancement, which was my point.

[Big Phil]

What makes any of you think the Empire would adopt Federation technology? An analogy would be the Spaniards adopting obsidian-tipped spears and arrows after their conquest of the Aztec and Incan Empires, or the British adopting Spears after the Zulu Wars. Perhaps we don't see phase cloaks, phaser strips, and antimatter weapons in Star Wars because it is old technology, and it's irrelevant at their technology level.

You cannot argue that Star Wars does not have the phase cloak. Perhaps they developed a phase cloak, but also developed countermeasures that made the phase cloak obsolete? Perhaps they once used phaser strips, but then realized that turbolasers offered fewer disadvantages and greater firepower.

interestingly, some south american natives had already developed crude brain surgery, before the spanish had even gotten there. so while they were not above the spaniards in weapons technology, there were other facets. it isn't so 1 sided.

True. These same natives, however, had not discovered how to mine or smelt copper, bronze, or iron. I believe what we were discussing was military applications to help the Empire fight other galaxies, not interesting medical techniques that are useful once in a blue moon.

[Big Phil]

I said 'basically' the same, since both arrows and bullets are essentially hard pointed projectiles flying fast enough to kill someone. Phasers and turbolasers both fill the role of a shipboard directed energy weapon, but although the device principles are different (just like explosive vs elastic), the nature of the discharge is also completely different (the most obvious property being NDF). I'm saying that the bow was replaced by the firearm in the role of 'hard fast pointy projectile weapon', but your analogy isnt quite right since phasers don't fire watered-down TL bolts or vice-versa, so the idea of a fixed technological 'advancement' path from phasers to turbolasers isn't necessarily valid.

Guns/arrow & phaser/turbolasers aren't basically the same, however. They are fundamentally different technologies with the same application. Also, I never suggested that there was a "fixed technological 'advancement' path from phasers to turbolasers."

'Better' can refer to lots of properties, and tech development could take an intricate web of possible courses. No doubt phasers were never used as shipboard weapons because, as you said, something was already better. The SW galaxy could still learn about the nature of phaser principles from a galaxy where that technology was the most common shipboard directed energy weapon, and so was applied and studied intensely. I'm just saying that since the SW galaxy never had any need to go down those roads, the fruits of a galaxy's-worth of research could be integrated into the general knowledge base, possibly enabling useful innovations.

While they might study phasers, why would they bother to utilize the technology in any way? It's an inferior technology with a whole host of inherent flaws with underwhelming firepower.

This thread was pretty clear in that it asked us to come up with ideas for Imperial advancements based on a conquest of the Federation in order to fight other, Empire-like, civilizations. Much like the English/American conquest of North America, or the Spanish/Portuguese conquest of South America, the conquerors will impose their technology and way of life on the conquered, not the other way around. Furthermore, the technological gap between Empire and Federation is far in excess of that between European and American Indian.

[Techno_Union]

Can you provide supporting evidence for your statement that weapon yields increase from a few GT's to a few TT's?

You're really new here aren't you? In any case, the 200GT figure for an Acclamator class is now the medium yield for an ISD with the HTLs being in the TT range based on calculations off of the ICS and, if I remember correctly, the size of the reactors and weapons themselves.

Or for the Taris bombardment being weaker than Imperial yields?

The Taris bombardment was nothing in the GT or TT range (not even sure if it was MT range), that is based on simple observations of the TLs striking the city and no massive damage was done with the exception of whatever building the TLs hit being destroyed.

I responded to his design of the Death Star and you were discussing the Galaxy Gun. My point, however, still stands. Bevel Lemelisk and his team designed new applications for existing technology; we don't know when the science behind the Sun Crusher,

Any other SW weapon (with the exception of the ancient Sith weapon) that destroys stars?

Galaxy Gun,

Any other missile that traveled the length of the galaxy to strike any target it wanted in SW history? Not to mention the way in which it did its task?

or quantum armor was developed.

Again, any other armor like the QC armor in SW history?

But once again, we're talking about different applications of existing technology, not quantum leaps in scientific advancement. I'll grant that the Empire was very creative in finding new and better ways to kill people and destroy ships and planets, but that doesn't equate to technological advancement, which was my point.

You do know what stagnant means right? It doesn't have to be some quantum leap in which they suddenly have uber tech, they progress slower than most other Sci-Fi races, that's it, however under the Empire, most tech was moving upwards rather than staying where it was, which is the case, generally, for the OR. Also, see the points I brought up about the newer tech developed, ie. Sun Crusher, GG, etc etc. They were advancing technology under the Empire, it just wasn't some massive leap into their future.

Tell me this though, what is the existing technology they used for a galaxy missile? If they are merely using the technology in a different application, what was said tech?

[Big Phil]

Can you provide supporting evidence for your statement that weapon yields increase from a few GT's to a few TT's?

You're really new here aren't you? In any case, the 200GT figure for an Acclamator class is now the medium yield for an ISD with the HTLs being in the TT range based on calculations off of the ICS and, if I remember correctly, the size of the reactors and weapons themselves.

"You're really new here aren't you?" Wow, you blew me away with that argument. I guess I should assume you're right because you've been on the board longer than me, even though you're comparing the turbolasers on a transport with the turbolasers on a capital ship?

Or for the Taris bombardment being weaker than Imperial yields?

The Taris bombardment was nothing in the GT or TT range (not even sure if it was MT range), that is based on simple observations of the TLs striking the city and no massive damage was done with the exception of whatever building the TLs hit being destroyed.

So your analysis is based on observation with no math to back it up, based on the dubious claim of increased firepower during the Imperial period, which itself is based on a comparison of firepower between a transport and a capital ship? We didn't see the end result of the attack on Taris - all we saw was 20 seconds of screen time, a Sith Lord ordering his Admiral to "wipe this patheic planet off the face of the galaxy," and a planet "destroyed" afterwards. That could mean anything, and can't be analyzed.

So what do I look at - landspeeders, droids, lightsabers, blasters, ship propulsion systems, etc., and what do I see? No significant advancements in 5,000 years.

Buddy, if I'm wrong about the advancement issue, I'll concede, but you're going to have to do better than comparing an Acclamator against an ISD.

[Lord Pounder]

The Turbolasers on the Acclamator Transport are the same MEDIUM guns used on a Imperial Stardestroyer, the comparison is valid.

[Techno_Union]

"You're really new here aren't you?" Wow, you blew me away with that argument. I guess I should assume you're right because you've been on the board longer than me, even though you're comparing the turbolasers on a transport with the turbolasers on a capital ship?

Nice of you to turn it into an argument where I come off as the bad guy, really, nice. I made the comment with the not so appropriate smiley, it should have been a different one, to show a sense of being stunned rather than looking down on you; it's just that I haven't seen (with the exception of rabid Trekkies), any poster who actually disagrees that TL firepower hasn't gone up over the thousands of years of SW history. Seriously, I'm not the kind of debater to scream who has been here the longest.

In any case the technology used on a transport (ie. TLs) is not different from the tech used on a later Imperial craft. However the Acclamators were Republic Assault crafts, they were the primary capital ship until the Dreadnaughts and Victories cam about. There is absolutely no reason to assume that just because it was primarily a transport (which at the same time being a capital ship for the OR) that their TLs would be the weakest, or not the strongest around.

So your analysis is based on observation with no math to back it up, based on the dubious claim of increased firepower during the Imperial period, which itself is based on a comparison of firepower between a transport and a capital ship? We didn't see the end result of the attack on Taris - all we saw was 20 seconds of screen time, a Sith Lord ordering his Admiral to "wipe this patheic planet off the face of the galaxy," and a planet "destroyed" afterwards. That could mean anything, and can't be analyzed.

Dubious claim?

Yes, so you should completely throw out what we actually saw based on that fact that the planet was destroyed in an unknown amount of time? Right... what math would you like me to provide? The Hiroshima bomb leveled more than 20 sq kilometers and it was around 45kt, we didn't even see anything remotely similar to this in the clip. Granted TLs are not the same as a thermonuclear device so we can't expect to see the same results, but the fact remains that the damage done was very little. If the Lord asked to wipe the planet out, would you think they would use minimum power to do so?

So what do I look at - landspeeders, droids, lightsabers, blasters, ship propulsion systems, etc., and what do I see? No significant advancements in 5,000 years.

What more do you want done with a landspeeder? What would they need to advance in that department?

Droids? Perhaps you didn't notice the SD 10s in DE II that had new self-healing metals, or the Human Replica Droids that were produced during the Empire's time, or the Shadow Droids that were the new product of tying a brain into a computer, or the Viper X1s that used new molecular shielding?

What more can be done to a lightsaber?

What more needs to be advanced in blasters?

Yes, there haven't been much in the way of newer propulsion with the exception of faster speeds.

Buddy, if I'm wrong about the advancement issue, I'll concede, but you're going to have to do better than comparing an Acclamator against an ISD.

So I see you dropped the other part where I mention the GG, Sun Crusher and what not, are they not new tech? Are they not the product of advancement?

Unless you can provide some reason why the Acclamators would not be carrying the more powerful TLs of the day, keeping in mind they were also an assault ship, then you have no choice but to concede the point.

[Big Phil]

The Turbolasers on the Acclamator Transport are the same MEDIUM guns used on a Imperial Stardestroyer, the comparison is valid.

If they are the same guns, how did the firepower increase?

[Ghost Rider]

The Turbolasers on the Acclamator Transport are the same MEDIUM guns used on a Imperial Stardestroyer, the comparison is valid.

If they are the same guns, how did the firepower increase?

A reactor that is nearly a order greater given the size difference of the two.

[Big Phil]

Nice of you to turn it into an argument where I come off as the bad guy, really, nice. I made the comment with the not so appropriate smiley, it should have been a different one, to show a sense of being stunned rather than looking down on you; it's just that I haven't seen (with the exception of rabid Trekkies), any poster who actually disagrees that TL firepower hasn't gone up over the thousands of years of SW history. Seriously, I'm not the kind of debater to scream who has been here the longest.

In any case the technology used on a transport (ie. TLs) is not different from the tech used on a later Imperial craft. However the Acclamators were Republic Assault crafts, they were the primary capital ship until the Dreadnaughts and Victories cam about. There is absolutely no reason to assume that just because it was primarily a transport (which at the same time being a capital ship for the OR) that their TLs would be the weakest, or not the strongest around.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post - I've seen too many people try claim they were right simply by virtue of seniority to feel comfortable with your post. Also, you used the "what the fuck" smiley, which didn't set well with me. I'm not trying to be an ass, so my apologies for jumping on you.

Please explain two things:
- How does firepower on a medium turbolaser increase from Acclamator to ISD? You said the MTL's on an Acclamator rate 200GT, whiel HTL's on an ISD rate several TT's. Aren't you comparing two different weapons?
- What capabilities did the droids have that were used during the time of Xim the Despot? As I understand it his entire army was composed of droids.

Part of the problem that I'm having with believing that there was such rapid advancement under the Empire is that so many other things remained virtually static during the Republic's 25,000 year history, and now all of a sudden under the Empire weapons are advancing by leaps and bounds. Propulsion speeds remained the same, blaster firepower and technology remained about the same, droids didn't change a whole lot, etc. It strikes me as a little unrealistic to have 25,000 years of stagnation, and then 30 years of rapid change.

I can certainly see how firepower would increase over time, but I would expect commensurate increases in propulsion speed, blaster firepower, droid capabilities, etc., which we don't see. I'm truly not trying to be stubborn, but I do question whether what we are seeing in quantum armor, the Galaxy Gun, etc., is truly technological advancement and new weapons, or just new applications for existing/old technology. [/b]

[Big Phil]

The Turbolasers on the Acclamator Transport are the same MEDIUM guns used on a Imperial Stardestroyer, the comparison is valid.

If they are the same guns, how did the firepower increase?

A reactor that is nearly a order greater given the size difference of the two.

I just rechecked the SD.net main site and saw that Mike calculated 22,500 TW as a minimum firepower output for light turbolasers. Should have done that earlier, I suppose. This is what he wrote:

"There are 12 heavy turbolasers and roughly 120 light turbolasers on an ISD1 (ref. SWICS). The heavy turbolasers are roughly 125 times bigger than the light turbolasers (which were seen vaporizing asteroids in TESB). If firepower is proportional to size (an unsubstantiated but not unreasonable postulate) then the sustainable power outputs of the heavy and light guns work out to 47 million TW and 375,000 TW respectively. Refire rates seem to be roughly 1 shot per 2 seconds, so the energy level of each individual blast would have to be 94 million TJ (22 gigatons of TNT) for heavy turbolasers and 750,000 TJ ( 179 megatons) for light turbolasers."

Wouldn't this mean that the guns on an ISD were actually weaker than the guns on an Acclamator?

[Big Phil]

That last quote comes from the beam weapon technology page on the main site. I used Mike's BDZ calculations, assuming that these would be the highest.