On the Eleventh Hour of the Eleventh Day of the 11th Month..

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-11-11 05:28pm

I just don't like the idea of killing people en masse when not necessary (ie, WWI), especially when it oculd have been avoided.

Not many people do. That's the point of celebrating the end - as a sign of respect for those who fell.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:29pm

Cyril wrote:
I just don't like the idea of killing people en masse when not necessary (ie, WWI), especially when it oculd have been avoided.
Not many people do. That's the point of celebrating the end - as a sign of respect for those who fell.

Okay, enbough underlining the end. I get the picture. Goddamn you guys seem thick-headed sometimes....

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-11 05:31pm

Speak for yourself.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:33pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Speak for yourself.

Bah. You just don't seem to see that I can't really think all that well when I am tired. Damn.

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-11 05:34pm

verilon wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Speak for yourself.
Bah. You just don't seem to see that I can't really think all that well when I am tired. Damn.

Which is often.....

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:35pm

IG-88E wrote:
verilon wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Speak for yourself.
Bah. You just don't seem to see that I can't really think all that well when I am tired. Damn.
Which is often.....

Your point being....?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-11 05:35pm

No shit.

If you keep saying dumb stuff when you go without sleep, I suggest keeping your mouth shut.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:36pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No shit.

If you keep saying dumb stuff when you go without sleep, I suggest keeping your mouth shut.

Okay, but no need to be rude about it. And you tell ME to watch the attitude...

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-11 05:39pm

verilon wrote:
IG-88E wrote:
verilon wrote: Bah. You just don't seem to see that I can't really think all that well when I am tired. Damn.
Which is often.....
Your point being....?

I rest my case.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:40pm

IG-88E wrote:
verilon wrote:
IG-88E wrote: Which is often.....
Your point being....?
I rest my case.

I'm not sure whether to laugh at that or to thwap you, Iggy...

Post by **Kuja** » 2002-11-11 05:41pm

Laugh. It was a joke.

Post by **haas mark** » 2002-11-11 05:43pm

IG-88E wrote:Laugh. It was a joke.

Okay. HAHAHA!!!

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-11-11 05:46pm

We should celebrate the veterans, regardless of whatever opinion we hold as to the necessity of the particular conflict. Remembers, soldiers don't make policy, they are simply charged with enforcing it. Many men didn't want to go fight in France, but they did so because their country called them to action. They're not the ones who declared war, they didn't order themselves across the pond, but they are the ones who shed their blood in what they may or may not have thought to be a noble cause. It is their sacrifice we are remembering.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2002-11-11 05:46pm

Cyril wrote:
I just am not proud that we continue to celebrate the fact that a war WE PARTICIPATED IN ended.
Why not? We went in, kicked ass, took names, liberated Europe from Imperial Germany. It was a good cause, in the end.

IIRC, WW1 was considerably less black and white than WW2. It was all about geopolitik, ultimately. I don't WW1 history much, but I think that if one of the German offensives had managed to take Paris (they came darned close AFAIK), then the Allies would have negotiated peace, which would have been a better deal for both sides. Instead, the Allies won and imposed a harsh deal on the Germans which led to the Weimar and then the Nazis. The French are sore winners, in comparison, Germany had defeated the French several times in the 19th century but never did kick the French in the balls when they were down.

KG

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-11-11 06:03pm

kheegan wrote:
Cyril wrote:
I just am not proud that we continue to celebrate the fact that a war WE PARTICIPATED IN ended.
Why not? We went in, kicked ass, took names, liberated Europe from Imperial Germany. It was a good cause, in the end.
IIRC, WW1 was considerably less black and white than WW2. It was all about geopolitik, ultimately. I don't WW1 history much, but I think that if one of the German offensives had managed to take Paris (they came darned close AFAIK), then the Allies would have negotiated peace, which would have been a better deal for both sides. Instead, the Allies won and imposed a harsh deal on the Germans which led to the Weimar and then the Nazis. The French are sore winners, in comparison, Germany had defeated the French several times in the 19th century but never did kick the French in the balls when they were down.

KG

A negotiated peace would simply have led to another massive war down the line, likely right around the same time as WW2. It might not have looked the same, but the body counts would be just as high. The Allied mistake was not so much as imposing harsh terms but failing to enforce them once it had.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-11-11 06:44pm

I'll just pay a tribute to my grand grand father courage, by reciting his postcard to his girlfriend, later his wife:

---------------------

Bourgelles, 14 - 11 - 918

My love,

The cannon has ceased its tenebrous voice.

The horror has ended, and on all faces we see joy, and tears of joy.

The bloody field of battle has became the peaceful region of old.

Forever, Peace!

------------------------

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2002-11-11 06:53pm

Anybody else, aside from Colonel Olrik, have a family member serve in the war? My great-uncle fought the Nazis during WWII. He was a Danish policeman who was part of the resistance.

XPViking

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-11-11 06:59pm

My grandfather on my mother's side served in the Pacific Theatre in WWII.

I believe my grandfather (the man my grandmother remarried after my father's father died) served in Europe.

My dad's father wanted to serve in WWII, but my great-grand parents wouldn't let him, as he was in college/medical school. He did serve in Alaska during the Korean War.

Olrik, that's beautiful. Do you mind if I copy-paste that?

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2002-11-11 07:45pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote: Olrik, that's beautiful. Do you mind if I copy-paste that?

Of course not. And thanks for the sentiment. I have five years worth of postcards in my possession, all written by him to my future grand grandmother. And some of them still bring tears to my eyes.

He fought in those damned holes that made WW1 notorious. Rats were useful. Not to eat, but to warn about gas attacks. They died quickly, and then everybody put their masks.

The portuguese contingent (fighting for the Allies, in case there is any doubt) met disaster. He was one of the survivors.

After returning to portugal, he was one of the military who didn't show support for the new dictatorship. The government wrecked is career because of that.

He died at age 65, due to problems caused by the gas attacks. His son was already a coronel, his grandson eventually became a PhD.

Tosho · Post by **Tosho** » 2002-11-11 07:52pm

None of my family as far as I know fought in any twentieth century war.

This feels appropriate for some reason.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-11-11 07:58pm

My grandfather was an anti-aircraft gunner fighting in North Africa, then later, as the Allies pushed onward, in Corsica...

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-11-11 08:01pm

All my Grandfther's brothers went too Korea, him being te oldest got in July 1950, joined the guard instead of the Reserve which payed better, had he gone into the Reserve I might not be talking too you today the Reseve arrived in the heat of Pusan. Anyway, all my Uncles, qwent too Korea one a Marine, another in the Navy another in Army, and another a radioman which was captured by the Chinese, and broke out with the prison and race too the 38th Parallel. Oh, and my Grandfather on my Dad's side was in the Army in Korea. But anyway, my Mom's brother was a Green Beret of the 5th SFG which served in Grenada, and most probably but never confirmed Bosina and Afghanistan in the war aganist the Soviets. But too the Veterans I say glory too you & scarifice.