Kain in the World of Darkness.

FAN: Discuss various fictional worlds that don't qualify for SF.

Moderator: Steve

Murazor
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2425
Joined: 2003-12-10 05:29am

Post by Murazor »

Arrrgh. Pressed submit instead of preview.

In Blood Omen 2, he awakened from a centuries long coma and almost all of his previous powers had disappeared, but it was said that he would eventually recover them. He also gained a few new abilities in the meanwhile.

-Mist form is again used, although it is said that some kind of magic sensitive knights could detect him in this form and he cannot feed while using it.
-Fury. It allows him to make one powerful and "unblockable" attack.
-Jump. He can jump "massive" distances. I will try to find some quantification.
-Charm. He gained this one from a vampire that could use it to control most minds and read those particularly strong that he could not control (like Kain's). Kain was able to use it to control some humans, but it is unknown whether he developed it enough to read minds.
-Berserk. Increased speed and allows to make several powerful and "unblockable" attacks.
-Telekinesis. His natural TK powers were increased once he gained this. Again, there is no clear quantification, although it is said that a single hit is enough to kill some humans and that Kain had enough accuracy to make shattered statues reform.
-Inmolate. His most powerful attack in that game, also considered "unblockable". It incinerated any enemy (exception made of the final boss). For quantification purposes, it can be mentioned that the vampire that Kain gained it from used it to shatter stone statues.

Finally, in Defiance, he used several spells gained from the Reaver in its different incarnations.

-Flame Reaver. Nearby enemies attack each other/fire damage. It also granted Kain pyrokinetic powers.
-Dimension Reaver. All nearby enemies are damaged as the attacked enemy. Allows Kain to make short teleport jumps to attack nearby enemies before returning to his original position.
-Time Reaver. The enemies it hits are slowed. All nearby enemies are slowed.
-Lightning Reaver. All nearby enemies are hit by lightning.
-Soul Reaver. At this point, the Reaver becomes the Soul Reaver as seen in Blood Omen and SR1. Relevant quote.
"Time fades even legend, and the origin of Soul Reaver has been lost long ago. But its purpose remains - to feed on the souls of any creature it strikes. Kindred, this blade and I."

The Soul Reaver could explode most enemies with one hit. As the Soul Reaver was a two-handed weapon, Kain could not cast spells or use items while he was equipped with it. The sword required an expenditure of Kain's magical energy to maintain this level of power, and it drained his magic reserves by an amount equal to the health (hit points) of each creature it killed. If Kain had no magic energy left, the Soul Reaver was only as effective as his Iron Sword.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

SirNitram wrote:Kain is unlikely to be Antedeluvian in scope, though he is pretty powerful stacked against a Neonate in WoD. That being said, the WoD tends to hit people who don't fit like. With huge, fucking, hammers.
Is there a site where one can more info on what stuff like Antedeluvian and such means?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
Murazor
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2425
Joined: 2003-12-10 05:29am

Post by Murazor »

His Divine Shadow wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Kain is unlikely to be Antedeluvian in scope, though he is pretty powerful stacked against a Neonate in WoD. That being said, the WoD tends to hit people who don't fit like. With huge, fucking, hammers.
Is there a site where one can more info on what stuff like Antedeluvian and such means?
Antediluvian = the older vampires around (3th gen, IIRC) in WoD. Caine was the first vampire, cursed by God after murdering Abel. After some time, he created a city and three or four new vampires (2nd gen) that created thirteen vampires (3th gen or Antediluvian, because they lived before the Diluve) that turned against their fathers and killed them by force of numbers. Later, the 13 3th gen vampires created all the vampire bloodlines. From what I understand, 12 of them are still around.
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

So each generation gets weaker?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
Murazor
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2425
Joined: 2003-12-10 05:29am

Post by Murazor »

Just to end with Kain's powers, once the heart of Janos Audron was removed from his chest by Raziel, he lost all vampiric vulnerabilities (sunlight weakening, acidic water, staking and, seemingly, those magics designed to operate against vampires). With the Soul Reaver, it seems that he is more or less invulnerable to physical damage (certainly, Raziel was at the end of SR2) and the best the Elder God could work out to stop him and Raziel (he was unable to destroy either of them) was to bury them alive within the ruins of the Vampire Citadel. It should be noted, however, that the Elder godhood is highly debatable and that in spite of having some powers, the extent of those is completely unknown.

I will try to dive around the cutscenes in order to produce some clearer examples of Kain's powers at work.
Murazor
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2425
Joined: 2003-12-10 05:29am

Post by Murazor »

His Divine Shadow wrote:So each generation gets weaker?
So it seems. They have reached the 13th generation of vampires, that are so weak that cannot create new vampires (or so I understand) and that is one of the signs of the incoming Gehenna (sp?), the Vampire Apocalypse where Caine will return and do... something.
Murazor
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2425
Joined: 2003-12-10 05:29am

Post by Murazor »

Connor MacLeod wrote:
-command of lightning

What do you mean "command of lightning?" He can call it from an existing storm, call it from the sky, or does it like shoot from his fingers Palpatine-style?
Both. He can call lightning from the sky and fire "energy" bolts.
-inspire hate among people
Hate as in making your opponents attack one another in a blind rage, or what?
Exactly that.
-project a magic barrier that renders him invulnerable
Which presumably is going to be a "double blind" effect.. since if people can't get "in" to him, he shouldn't be able to get out.
-slow/stop time
For how long? And how much can it be slowed by?
Don't know, although probably a short time and this is an artifact dependant power. TIme is slowed to a 25% of normal, which coupled with enhanced vampiric speed means bad shit. No Matrix like stuff, however.
-cause spontaneous combustion
Depends on what this means. If it means completely reducing someone to ash (ie cremation) we'd be talking mid to high MJ range, maybe low gigajoule range (depending on efficiency and the effects on nearby people. Someone who can stand a few feet away and not get burned probably means its not in the GJ range, for example.) It also depends on how long it takes people to "combust"
The incineration seems to be fairly fast. See Incinerate in one of my posts a bit above this one.
-modest telekinetic powers (can bring down stone buildings/structures
Not really useful without knowing the dimensions of the buildings/structures in question, and how long it takes.
A low limit can be calculated. Kain can effortlessly lift Moebius from the ground in a Darth Vader like gesture. In addition to this, it must be remembered that Moebius is a wizard and was perhaps fighting this TK attack.
-forcibly pull the blood from any living creature within a certain radius
as a telekinetic feat, depends on the quantity of blood and number of people affected (And how long it takes)
Fast. Up to four targets. All the blood in the body, it would seem.
-high resistance to telepathy
I don't see how this can be quantitfied (excecpt maybe by knowing how many normal people a given enemy could control, and whether or not Kain can resist that kind of person.)
He was able to resist an enemy vampire that could control a fair number of people, but was unable to prevent that vampire from reading his mind.
-create a fair semblance of himself
What?
Create an illusion to appear human.
-ontrol the minds of people
How many simultaneously?
It seems that no number limit, but must focus in one at a time. Possession attacks are limited to one target.
-"freeze" people
Like time stop, or are we talking telekinetic immobility?
Description says time stop, but it seems more like TK induced inmobility.
-generate magic light
What?
Create light illumination.
-melt people into acid
Do you mean "melt people by acid" or that their body mass is turned into acid?
Artifact based power that melts their body mass in acid.
Mobiboros
Jedi Knight
Posts: 506
Joined: 2004-12-20 10:44pm
Location: Long Island, New York
Contact:

Post by Mobiboros »

Murazor wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:So each generation gets weaker?
So it seems. They have reached the 13th generation of vampires, that are so weak that cannot create new vampires (or so I understand) and that is one of the signs of the incoming Gehenna (sp?), the Vampire Apocalypse where Caine will return and do... something.
Actually, that's not true. There are 14th and 15th generation Vampires (in the Old WoD setting). The 15th gen can no longer produce viable vampire 'childer', but they can actually get pregnant and give birth as they are almost not vampires anymore.

Also, the WoD did already have Gehenna. The book presented like 4 possible endings to the game line.
User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Post by NeoGoomba »

Connor MacLeod wrote: What do you mean "command of lightning?" He can call it from an existing storm, call it from the sky, or does it like shoot from his fingers Palpatine-style?
It comes from the sky. There doesnt need to be an existing storm.


Hate as in making your opponents attack one another in a blind rage, or what?
Basically any living creature would turn on another living creature within the radius of the spell

Which presumably is going to be a "double blind" effect.. since if people can't get "in" to him, he shouldn't be able to get out.
Kain can still attack people physically and magically while the barrier surrounds him.
For how long? And how much can it be slowed by?
That I'm not quite sure of, as its been awhile since I've played Blood Omen 1. I know it was enough for a pretty slow "slow motion effect" on the surroundings
Depends on what this means. If it means completely reducing someone to ash (ie cremation) we'd be talking mid to high MJ range, maybe low gigajoule range (depending on efficiency and the effects on nearby people. Someone who can stand a few feet away and not get burned probably means its not in the GJ range, for example.) It also depends on how long it takes people to "combust"
Its instantaneous, and I think it just leaves skeletal remains. It can be countered magically (it takes a few tries for this to be effective against the Hylden Lord for example), and it is also based on Kains own line of sight.
-modest telekinetic powers (can bring down stone buildings/structures
Not really useful without knowing the dimensions of the buildings/structures in question, and how long it takes.
His TK feats in Defiance are all near-instantaneous, from turning a switch to hurling someone onto spikes to tearing a door apart. But as to the material composition and exact dimenions, I dont know.
-generic magic blasts
-render someone "stunned"
Not very quantitatively useful.
The generic magic blasts vary depending on who it is used against. Either it rips them apart in one hit, or multiple, but it does tend to rip them apart. The "Stun" spell is used to incapacitate a person so he can feed on them, it wears off after five-ten seconds.
as a telekinetic feat, depends on the quantity of blood and number of people affected (And how long it takes)
At least up to eight people (I've done personally) and it only takes about two or three seconds.
-high resistance to telepathy
I don't see how this can be quantitfied (excecpt maybe by knowing how many normal people a given enemy could control, and whether or not Kain can resist that kind of person.)
Granted. I'm basing this off his resistance to Nupraptor the Mentalists powers, who had an entire town under his mind control that was at least a kilometer away from him, and he could not affect Kain with the same mind control. But it isnt given how long it took Nupraptor to gain control of the people
-create a fair semblance of himself
What?


This is so Kain can avoid detection as a Vampire, he casts an illusion of humanity as well as his former nobility around himself.
-ontrol the minds of people
How many simultaneously?
Just one at a time
-control animated objects
What?
At several points Kain has used a variation of mind control when he controlled golems or other enchanted "sentient" creations
-"freeze" people
Like time stop, or are we talking telekinetic immobility?
Telekinetically
-generate magic light
What?
Light. Magic. He can generate it
Do you mean "melt people by acid" or that their body mass is turned into acid?
Its pretty self explainatory
-hurl energy-based blades
Not really useful unless one knows the effect of the blades on objects/people.
They tear people apart, with body parts flying
-implode people
What?
That isnt self explainatory? He magically causes people to implode, and the pressure then causes them to die messily
-explode people
Not sure how ot quantify this. A grenade could probably "explode" a person if they had it buried inside them.
With the Penchalat of Tarot enemies either explode or melt around him, or simply disappear. Guess it could be a magically induced expansion of their insides.
User avatar
Captain Cyran
Psycho Mini-lop
Posts: 7037
Joined: 2002-07-05 11:00pm
Location: College... w00t?

Post by Captain Cyran »

Mobiboros wrote:
Murazor wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:So each generation gets weaker?
So it seems. They have reached the 13th generation of vampires, that are so weak that cannot create new vampires (or so I understand) and that is one of the signs of the incoming Gehenna (sp?), the Vampire Apocalypse where Caine will return and do... something.
Actually, that's not true. There are 14th and 15th generation Vampires (in the Old WoD setting). The 15th gen can no longer produce viable vampire 'childer', but they can actually get pregnant and give birth as they are almost not vampires anymore.

Also, the WoD did already have Gehenna. The book presented like 4 possible endings to the game line.
Actually there is a novel, but that only covers up to right before Gehenna starts, it also introduces two other Ante's, Lasombra and Haqim, neither of which have actual bodies anymore.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew... The Black Mage with The Knife SD.Net Chronicler of the Past Bun Bun is my hero. The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
Mobiboros
Jedi Knight
Posts: 506
Joined: 2004-12-20 10:44pm
Location: Long Island, New York
Contact:

Post by Mobiboros »

Captain_Cyran wrote:Actually there is a novel, but that only covers up to right before Gehenna starts, it also introduces two other Ante's, Lasombra and Haqim, neither of which have actual bodies anymore.
That's true. There wee Time of Judgement novels as well. However, I was simly saying htat as far as the RPG itself went, there was a book called "Gehenna" (Likewise "Apocalypse" for werewolf and "Ascension" for mage and "The Time of Judgement" for all the rest) that details 'possible' endings to the game lines. There wasn't any 'official' ending, just possibilities. In "Gehenna", depending on which story path you follow, there are many Antedeluvians. The book also tells you the most probable things that happened to some of them.
Lasombra, for example, exists only as a 'living shadow' and is one of the possble reasons the Demons were freed from the Abyss. On the flip side Ravnos simply said "Too Bad, So Sad. Byebye". Because the Technocracy Nuked him THEN shot him with orbital satellite lasers (fragging much of Bangladesh in the process).
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

No official ending? Hrm. Ascension had an 'Official' conclusion to the Metaplot(Judgement).
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
Mobiboros
Jedi Knight
Posts: 506
Joined: 2004-12-20 10:44pm
Location: Long Island, New York
Contact:

Post by Mobiboros »

SirNitram wrote:No official ending? Hrm. Ascension had an 'Official' conclusion to the Metaplot(Judgement).
I believe the Werewolf and Mage books had official endings. The Vampire one presented 4 possible scenarios. I think the one the novels follow is the one with the 'quiet' ending where Vampires are gone from the world and no one ever notices. The novels are closest to 'official' but aren't the 'definite' ending.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Mobiboros wrote:
SirNitram wrote:No official ending? Hrm. Ascension had an 'Official' conclusion to the Metaplot(Judgement).
I believe the Werewolf and Mage books had official endings. The Vampire one presented 4 possible scenarios. I think the one the novels follow is the one with the 'quiet' ending where Vampires are gone from the world and no one ever notices. The novels are closest to 'official' but aren't the 'definite' ending.
Given that all the references to Gehenna in Apocalypse and Ascension refer to it as being so quiet no Werewolf or Mage would notice, that's probably the official one, and it's definately the official one with the novel agreeing.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
His Divine Shadow
Commence Primary Ignition
Posts: 12791
Joined: 2002-07-03 07:22am
Location: Finland, west coast

Post by His Divine Shadow »

Poor vamps, what about the rest of humanity? And the werewolves and demons and mages and so on?
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who did not.
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

His Divine Shadow wrote:Poor vamps, what about the rest of humanity? And the werewolves and demons and mages and so on?
Well, if we try and link Ascension's official(Judgement), Gehenna's 'Quiet', and Apocalypse's official(Last Battleground) together, the rest of Humanity drags through half and half:

Downside: Civilization is destroyed, billions dead by the end.
Upside: Those that survive have reached 'Ascension': A state of being where they can alter reality and move on to the 'next plane of existance'. The corrupting influences of the World of Darkness are pretty much annihilated by the end.

Werewolves: Almost all die in the final battle with the Wyrm, but, by great sacrifice and sheer fucking firepower, they can shatter the Wyrm forever. Of course, they annihilate themselves in the process, but such was always their fate. Gaia will heal in time.

Mages: Aforementioned Ascension. Technocracy and Tradition wind up uniting against a dude called Voormas whose out to stop the cycle of Life and Death entirely and the hordes of Marauders trying to assault Earth. The Nephandi vanish into the nightmares they worshipped, once and for all..
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Captain Cyran
Psycho Mini-lop
Posts: 7037
Joined: 2002-07-05 11:00pm
Location: College... w00t?

Post by Captain Cyran »

Yep, Whitewolf wasn't joking when it said "As a vampire... you're fucked. It doesn't matter what you do, it won't matter, you're fucked." so vampires simply faded into obscurity, for the most part. The west coast went to hell in a hand basket, and Europe and the Middle East was having weird blackouts, but that was really the extent of it. By the Werewolf book the werewolves mention that no body knows what happened to the vamps, they just disappeared.
Justice League, Super-Villain Carnage "Carnage Rules!" Cult of the Kitten Mew... The Black Mage with The Knife SD.Net Chronicler of the Past Bun Bun is my hero. The Official Verilonitis Vaccinator
Post Reply