Marijuana - God's gift. [WTF]

moku · Post by **moku** » 2005-01-14 08:33pm

+http://www.geocities.com/ovidduke/ganja.html

*Speechless*
This 'guy' popped into this other forum, and is sprouting his pro-pot views.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-01-14 08:38pm

Perhaps you can refute some of these pro-pot views with something other than presumption?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-01-14 08:42pm

Firstly, does anyone else find "Hey guys, look at this guy on a completely different forum, isn't he stupid/give me a counter-argument" threads growing increasinly annoying?

Secondly, this board is fairly pot-friendly. Anti-anti-drug, you might say.

moku · Post by **moku** » 2005-01-14 08:58pm

I am not linking or asking anyone to view the forum - just this site of a particular member and what you think of it.
If you don't want to - then don't.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-14 09:02pm

Pot is a tame and non-physiologically addictive substance. Like any drug, it should be used wisely and can be abused, but it's hardly anything to get your panties in a knot over.

Now, if the guy was going on about crack cocaine or something, we'd bat an eyelid. But he isn't. And so we won't.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2005-01-14 09:04pm

It is a most excellent site, like the one that's linked from the picture in my sig.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-01-14 09:37pm

I copied and pasted the address listed, but it doesn't work. Is there another address that I could use to get to it?

As for the health effects of pot, my search results were mixed. The National Institute of Health's web page on it was very anti-pot, listing side effects such as

A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers(9)

but they may have a bias influencing their conclusions. Another essay written on the health effects of marijuana, available here, pointed out that many of the arguments used, such as marijuana destroys brain cells, were not duplicated in additional studies along the same lines.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-14 09:53pm

Okay, let's not turn this into a weed discussion because we've been over the effects time and time again and there are studies still being done. I think it's safe to say it isn't the society destroying drug the far right would have us believe.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-01-14 09:58pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Okay, let's not turn this into a weed discussion because we've been over the effects time and time again and there are studies still being done. I think it's safe to say it isn't the society destroying drug the far right would have us believe.

Okay, I was just pointing it out because of Moku's indignation at the guy's pro-pot arguments. There was one interesting factoid in the second paper.

Shedler et al. (1990) reported these results in a longitudinal survey of adolescents:
"Adolescents who engaged in some drug experimentation (primarily with marijuana) were the best adjusted in the sample. Adolescents who used drugs frequently were maladjusted, showing distinct personality syndrome marked by interpersonal alienation, poor impulse control, and manifest emotional distress. Adolescents who, by age 18, had never experimented with any drug were relatively anxious, emotionally constricted, and lacking in social skills."

I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned this before.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-14 10:02pm

Probably an uncountable number of times by myself and others. It is, however, irrelevent as certain risk are known with the drug anyway. The point is that they are very minor unless you're a pot-head.

moku · Post by **moku** » 2005-01-14 10:12pm

I've heard many stories from people claiming tobacco is more damaging than marijuana. I don't know whether or not it is true, mainly since I haven't touched a cigarette or a bong. Neither have I been facinated enough to actually hunt down the facts on the net.

I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.

That is just me.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-01-14 10:24pm

I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.

Wait, he's a fanatical pro-pot religous person?

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-01-14 10:26pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:
I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.
Wait, he's a fanatical pro-pot religous person?

It is pretty much the only thing God doesn't demand the death sentence for. Give him a break.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-01-14 10:29pm

moku wrote:I've heard many stories from people claiming tobacco is more damaging than marijuana. I don't know whether or not it is true, mainly since I haven't touched a cigarette or a bong. Neither have I been facinated enough to actually hunt down the facts on the net.

I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.

That is just me.

Don't let your own lack of experience be a negative appeal to personal anecdote. Try finding ONE death attributed to pot.
Directly.

In the way thousands, or tens of thousands of deaths, annually, are directly attributed to tobacco.

As to his religious beliefs concerning pot go, at least you can grow a pot plant, and verify it's real. If your head works that way, why not attribute weed a gift from god?

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-01-14 10:34pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
Guardsman Bass wrote:
I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.
Wait, he's a fanatical pro-pot religous person?
It is pretty much the only thing God doesn't demand the death sentence for. Give him a break.

Actually, I want to give him an award for that stance! That is very unusual, in my opinion.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-01-14 10:36pm

moku wrote:I've heard many stories from people claiming tobacco is more damaging than marijuana. I don't know whether or not it is true, mainly since I haven't touched a cigarette or a bong. Neither have I been facinated enough to actually hunt down the facts on the net.

I just saw this site and noticed some of his religious beliefs concerning pot, and his 'views'. I found them quite fanatical.

That is just me.

one thing that makes pot considerably safer than tobacco is the fact that it's not physically addicting. there may be some psychological dependence developed, but for the most part anyone who's smoked pot can simply quit with the drop of a hat, while the same cannot be said of tobacco.

moku · Post by **moku** » 2005-01-14 10:40pm

I just found it weird. That's all.
And I suppose tobacco kills more than weed does. Yet it is illegal - and there must be a reason behind that decision.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-14 10:47pm

moku wrote:I just found it weird. That's all.
And I suppose tobacco kills more than weed does. Yet it is illegal - and there must be a reason behind that decision.

Because tobacco is big business, and pot is criminalised.

Yes, the distinction is that arbitrary. I'm sure there's more detail involved, but in a nutshell that's what it boils down to.

People have a tendency to compartmentalise information in easy-to-digest chunks that don't represent the whole truth. "Drugs are bad, mmmkay" is an example of this. It doesn't matter if the drug addict is a pothead, a heroin junkie or a crackhead. To the 'guy on the street' one drug addict is the same as any drug addict... EXCEPT if the drug happens to be tobacco or alcohol. Those drugs are 'respectable', even if in many respects they cause more damage. (certainly more than pot; as Frank said, find how many people have died from pot as opposed to cigarettes or booze.)

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2005-01-14 10:50pm

moku wrote:I just found it weird. That's all.
And I suppose tobacco kills more than weed does. Yet it is illegal - and there must be a reason behind that decision.

the tobacco industry simply doesn't want the competition.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-01-14 10:53pm

Yes, the distinction is that arbitrary. I'm sure there's more detail involved, but in a nutshell that's what it boils down to.

It is not that arbitrary. Tobacco is a leaf. An addictive leaf that is incredibly stupid to smoke, but a leaf nonetheless. Marijuana is a mind-altering drug.

However, when you get to alcohol, this distinction starts to break down.

Cyborg Stan · Post by **Cyborg Stan** » 2005-01-14 10:58pm

The only thing I found all that strange was his stating that all plants were harmless until Man adds chemicals to it. And while strange, it does seem to be a somewhat 'logical' conclusion from his apparently YEC position. (Although it would be more likely to see one claim that plants only became harmful to us after the Fall - with the way he states things, it's like he would believe that irritants in poison ivy or other things were stuck there by humans.)

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-14 10:59pm

Joe wrote:
Yes, the distinction is that arbitrary. I'm sure there's more detail involved, but in a nutshell that's what it boils down to.
It is not that arbitrary. Tobacco is a leaf. An addictive leaf that is incredibly stupid to smoke, but a leaf nonetheless. Marijuana is a mind-altering drug.

However, when you get to alcohol, this distinction starts to break down.

What about nicotein? That's the drug. I was talking about tobacco 'big business'.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-01-14 11:01pm

et it is illegal - and there must be a reason behind that decision

Well, the original reason has something to do with discrimination against Mexican immigrants way back in the dawning years of the 20th century, and the rest is essentially a tale of 70 years of self-perpetuating government beaucracy.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2005-01-14 11:04pm

What about nicotein? That's the drug. I was talking about tobacco 'big business'.

Nicotine doesn't screw with your mind the way THC does. It is merely addictive.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-01-14 11:06pm

Joe wrote:
Yes, the distinction is that arbitrary. I'm sure there's more detail involved, but in a nutshell that's what it boils down to.
It is not that arbitrary. Tobacco is a leaf. An addictive leaf that is incredibly stupid to smoke, but a leaf nonetheless. Marijuana is a mind-altering drug.

However, when you get to alcohol, this distinction starts to break down.

Tobacco is a behavior altering addictive drug that kills.

Alcohol not only alters a person's personality and judgement in ways that can't even begin to be compared to pot, but it kills, directly and indirectly.

I'd like to see something that shows that "mind altering" is a negative property.

Again, all I ask is for proof of one (1) person that has died from marijuana use. Not indirectly from being in a car wreck and pot was found in their system, not the train wreck from the 80's that killed several people, but 1 instance of someone who has died directly from injesting weed in the way many die every day, or every hour even, from smoking tobacco.