human wanking syndrome - another sci fi brain bug?

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2005-01-13 12:50am

My own universe has the main human polity in a state of rough technological, economic, and military parity with half a dozen neighboring alien polities (there are other human states, but they're generally small, weak, and isolated). This is, of course, highly improbable, which is a plot point...

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-13 10:21am

It's not a brainbug per se but a combination of laziness and a story telling device.

For one the reader will most probably be a human and not a asdhfoaiw erhoiafoiahdf oias'f kha'[sghfwoeu (short version), so it is generally nice to appeal to a human if it is written with them in mind.

Second the laziness factor comes in a few shapes and forms (not all of which I will talk about here), two of which are laziness to invent and original alien species, and laziness not to do the typical.

I mean what are the chances of aliens being anything remotely like us? Very low, but sci-fi writers need to comprimise in order to get on with the story rather than spend the entire book talking about the aliens, so they give us a general frame of reference (bi-pedial and looks like a cat is a popular one, only surpased by the 'giant inscect' variety).

The other form of lazyness is that the writter can't take the chance of us the readers (who are most likely going to be human) are not going to like reading a story of us having our asses handed to us (not a lot of room for maneouver there for sequels you see). Or us being the bad guys (you see the audience - humans - wouldn't sit through that with a genuine alien species).

I mean for crying out loud, Hollywood butchered Homer's Illiad for fucks sake, a classic that has survived for 3000 years and was the fist major western story, because they didn't believe the modern audience could have understood that there doesn't need to by a 'good guy' and 'bad guy'.

Why all of you expect modern paperback mass marketing popcorn fluff books to be any different, I have no idea.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-01-13 10:31am

Crown wrote:Why all of you expect modern paperback mass marketing popcorn fluff books to be any different, I have no idea.

Hope, my friend...hope

.

In all honesty I do agree with many of your points, it's just that in so many of us there is this small flicker that others will see some of our points and try to realize them beyond the cookiee cutter norm.

I myself?

I don't see it as much as a brain bug as sheer outright laziness and reorting to the classic cookiee cutter fashion. In that is why people who try something new and/or different AND make it succeed get success.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-13 11:01am

Ghost Rider wrote:Hope, my friend...hope .

In all honesty I do agree with many of your points, it's just that in so many of us there is this small flicker that others will see some of our points and try to realize them beyond the cookiee cutter norm.

I myself?

I don't see it as much as a brain bug as sheer outright laziness and reorting to the classic cookiee cutter fashion. In that is why people who try something new and/or different AND make it succeed get success.

I know man, I know.

acesand8s · Post by **acesand8s** » 2005-01-13 07:55pm

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:In the Strykerverse, Humans have only recently hit the space, qnd only because the Fraal(Greys) decided that Humans needed to be protected after one Illithis Colonial cruiser nearly succeeded in enslaving Man. They are one of the smaller factions of an alliance, and only have power because they border directly on the massive Illithid Empire, and thus must be a buffer and not piss the Illithids off at all, and because of technology left on Mars and Antarctica by other aliens millions of years ago that may put Humans ahead in the technology race. However, for now, they must tread lightly, as skirmishes between provinces are still common.

Sounds interesting. What are the books in that series? I've never heard of it.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-13 10:19pm

Crown wrote:I mean what are the chances of aliens being anything remotely like us? Very low,

This very topic came up in PSW. It just seems to me that if you had three alien species - one a silicon rock creature who lives on planets that resembles Venus, the second a hydrogen gasbag that farts helium and lives in the clouds of gasgiants, and the third a Twi'lek chick with a fantastic rack - it just seems plausible to me that you would associate with the one that's closer to your frame of reference.

As you say, the writer must compromise for the needs of the story. But I do wonder at how many more permutations of the generic "We're lion men, we are warlike though honourable, and we have come to conquer you!" alien motif we have to keep getting?

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2005-01-14 01:12am

Well, intelligent silicon 'rocks' don't produce spaceships.

Twilek chicks do.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-01-14 01:41am

Farting gasbags in gas giants can't reach the stoneage, for one...

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-14 04:17am

...and both of you hit on my point.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-14 09:44am

Stofsk wrote:...and both of you hit on my point.

Which goes back to the symptome being more a story telling device than a 'brainbug' per se (the alien features).

Where as the Human wanking is a combination of story telling lazyness and lack of imagination.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2005-01-14 10:54am

Aside of Star Wars, IIRC there's not many sci-fi depicting humans as the most advanced race. I think the more dominant brain bug is depicting humans as a 'young-but-fast-advancing/adapting' race like in Babylon Five or StarCraft. But probably these also consider as human-wanking brainbug? "Most adaptable race", "primitive race with latent potential", etc.

Of course, naturally I'd also be interested in the discussion on literal meaning of 'human-wanking', although no sci-fi had displayed such brain bug by far.....

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2005-01-14 04:43pm

I believe there is another problem with making a story revolve around a different type of alien species or whatever that your missing.
Create an advanced human race, thats just another 1 in a billion thats be thought up and printed.
Come up with something different for aliens, and if it becomes successful there is a good chance the author is going to have to wade through claims that they stole someone else's idea or was based on another race therefore the authur should forfiet some or all of their royalties.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-01-14 06:34pm

acesand8s wrote:
Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:In the Strykerverse, Humans have only recently hit the space, qnd only because the Fraal(Greys) decided that Humans needed to be protected after one Illithis Colonial cruiser nearly succeeded in enslaving Man. They are one of the smaller factions of an alliance, and only have power because they border directly on the massive Illithid Empire, and thus must be a buffer and not piss the Illithids off at all, and because of technology left on Mars and Antarctica by other aliens millions of years ago that may put Humans ahead in the technology race. However, for now, they must tread lightly, as skirmishes between provinces are still common.
Sounds interesting. What are the books in that series? I've never heard of it.

Unfortunately, the books havn't actually been published- the author is a friend of mine who at the time just made a series of mostly short stories about it for fun since he was unable to contact a publisher at that time. I own all the stories, and only about 3 copies were made of each. I don't have a scanner or anything to upload these things onto the net, either.

Pretty good writing. They tend to be a bit contrived, though.

Medic · Post by **Medic** » 2005-01-15 08:32am

My interpretation/summary of the mass opinon...

Universal sci-fi human traits
1. Reckless expansionists
2. Greatest potential
3. Most adaptive
4. Superlative power (underdogs or Empire)

Universal sci-fi alien traits
1. One note aliens (honorable, psychic, warlike, peaceful; basicall Wong's description of racism in Star Trek)
2. Static evolution (they are supposed to be strong or supposed to be weak)
3. CANNOT, for the life of them, adapt (always used to differentiate them from humans / terrans) Set in their ways like the Vong.

1 and 2 go hand in hand, if they are pacifistic they expand only so much and if they are warlike are obviously the antagonists. If they are spiritual they are above it all and a non-factor. So yeah, it looks like the result of a writer filling roles in a storyline.

Lusankya · Post by **Lusankya** » 2005-01-15 07:44pm

If it's done from a human perspective, though, then won't most humans see most aliens as being the same, you know, in the same way that all Americans are stupid cowboys, all Aussies are drunken larrikins and all Frenchmen are arrogant twats?