Sci-Fi Infantry Versus

[Pablo Sanchez]

Out of all the infantry forces listed below, who would be the nastiest in a scrap? Add your own, but this is a pure infantry issue, and power armor doesn't count either. Just unaugmented foot-sloggers.

Kzin: They're two meters tall, they mass at least 200 kilograms, and they look like a rat-tailed orange tabby. My personal favorite. The Kzin are much stronger than any human, as well as being faster and more agile. They are very tenacious as well, but they suffer under the handicap of being a bit hot-tempered. I believe that they are armed with the standard sci-fi stuff, projectile/laser weapons.

USCM: You saw them in Aliens, and you probably love them. Well armed, well trained, and professional. Badass in every sense of the word.

Clone Troopers: Star Wars' contribution. They're well armed and armored, and have an insectlike lack of regard for their own safety. Will that be enough?

Jem'Hadar: They're fucked, but we need to represent ST at some point.

Again, your own suggestions are welcome.

[Mr Bean]

Hmm I'll fill in a few of the more common ones

Red-Shirts(ST)- No they don't fight that well, No they are not that well armed, Or trained, But they are endless!

Imperal Storm Troopers(SW)- Wearing Upgraded Armor from Clone Troopers and using better weapons they are not as smart or as strong as Clone Troopers however

DarkTroopers(SW)- He's Got a Gun, Armor, A Shield, Oh yes and he's an Evil Light Saber Carriering Storm Trooper who wears very heavy armor and can force-choke you if nessary

Gorden Freeman(HL)- Sure he's not any elite battleguard unit but this one Scientist does pretty well for himself though his weapons are Lacking the HEV suit he wears is better armor than what Stormtroopers wear

Imperal Guardsmen(40k) Nine to twelve Foot tall Bolter Carring Super Men with Armor to match and completly Fearless

Moble Suit Infantry(Gundum)- Sure this is a bit of a stretch in being infantry but see them as wearing the next, next, next, next, NEXT Generation of Personal Fully Body Armor

[Pablo Sanchez]

Hmm I'll fill in a few of the more common ones

Red-Shirts(ST)- No they don't fight that well, No they are not that well armed, Or trained, But they are endless!

They die, in great numbers.

Imperal Storm Troopers(SW)- Wearing Upgraded Armor from Clone Troopers and using better weapons they are not as smart or as strong as Clone Troopers however

Stormies are definitely smarter than Clone Troopers! I'm sorry to say that I was almost completely unimpressed by their performance in AOTC. The only good thing about them was that they were completely fearless and obedient.

Their tactics were apparently "walk towards enemy, fire, walk forwards." They didn't even take cover when under fire, for Christ's sake! They must have a death wish.

DarkTroopers(SW)- He's Got a Gun, Armor, A Shield, Oh yes and he's an Evil Light Saber Carriering Storm Trooper who wears very heavy armor and can force-choke you if nessary

They're not really infantry, more like commandos. Plus they wear power armor.

Gorden Freeman(HL)- Sure he's not any elite battleguard unit but this one Scientist does pretty well for himself though his weapons are Lacking the HEV suit he wears is better armor than what Stormtroopers wear

One man does not an infantry force make.

Imperal Guardsmen(40k) Nine to twelve Foot tall Bolter Carring Super Men with Armor to match and completly Fearless

Power armor = wrong thread. Besides which, I've already explained my disdain for these fellows.

Moble Suit Infantry(Gundum)- Sure this is a bit of a stretch in being infantry but see them as wearing the next, next, next, next, NEXT Generation of Personal Fully Body Armor

I said no power armor.

[Howedar]

I think of the original 4, the Clones and Kzin are pretty well tied. Little is known of Kzinti tactics or weapons (for that matter, you didn't specify an era). The Clones, too, are something of an unknown, as we've never really seen them in symmetrical combat.

I don't know enough about the USCM, and of course the Jemmies just blow.

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think of the original 4, the Clones and Kzin are pretty well tied. Little is known of Kzinti tactics or weapons (for that matter, you didn't specify an era).

Sorry. About the time of the Cathouse story, when they still have projectile weapons in common use, but the standard weapon is the Laser rifle. I go with that era, because it's either that, non-lethal weaponry , or badass laser-flashlights and impact armor supplemented with superconduct cloaks.

[Mr Bean]

Pablo I have to ask
What cover was avaible on that planet?

It was kinda a flat plain correct? They where under orders To advance, How exaclty are they going to get under cover now?

[Pablo Sanchez]

Pablo I have to ask
What cover was avaible on that planet?

It was kinda a flat plain correct?

Actually, it was rocky and pitted with fair sized craters, bolders, and gullies. Besides which, they didn't even take the time to lay prone, which is standard training for every soldier in modern times. When fire comes your way, your belly should be touching the dirt. This reduces your target profile and makes it easier for you to aim.

They where under orders To advance, How exaclty are they going to get under cover now?

Simple leapfrog advance. Half the squad gets behind cover and offers covering fire while the other half advances. They then reverse roles, over and over again, until they have reached their objective.

[Mr. B]

The Kzin sound very powerful and compared to the other three choices they appear to be the best soldier.

But stormtroopers are smarter than clonies. If they were stormies they might have a chance.

And if the Hunters of Halo were involved they would become a serious threst for these Kzin(BTY where are they from)

[Pablo Sanchez]

And if the Hunters of Halo were involved they would become a serious threst for these Kzin(BTY where are they from)

Niven's Known Space. They were conquerors in the biggest way possible for Sublight drive, but they were inferior in tactics and strategy to humans. They discovered Earth and engaged in three major battles trying to take Sol, failing each attempt but coming close every time. The Fourth strike would have succeeded, except that it was superseded by faster than light ships from the cut-off human colony of We Made It. The Kzin couldn't intercept the Hyperdrive Armada, so they lost quite a bit of territory. I believe the human offensive peetered out after a while because they couldn't continue taking planets by assault and losing 3 men to every Kzin.

There were several more wars between Humans and Kzin, and the Kzin lost all of them because of the N-Square Law (humans started with initial numbers advantage, which only grew as the fight continued).

[Darth_Shinji]

Would super-soldiers be allowed? As long as they don't have power armour?

[Howedar]

or badass laser-flashlights and impact armor supplemented with superconduct cloaks.

That was my thought. Sure as hell those Kzinti would crush anything on that list.

[paladin]

I would have to go with the Kzin. Their size and speed give them a great advantage.

[Patrick Ogaard]

I think the Space Marines of the Imperium of Man (WH40K) should be allowed back in. Their powered armor is powered only to the extent that its weight does not encumber the wearer. The real power-armor troops of WH40K would be Space Marine Terminators in Tactical Dreadnought Armor.

Put up against red-shirts, the Space Marines would win, as would a competently-led troop of girl scouts.

Against the USCMC of Aliens, the Space Marines would win only if they managed to close the range and engage the Colonial Marines in close combat. The Space Marines tend to lack a sense of self-preservation and do not appear to possess any particular tactical ability, so the Colonial Marines should be fine as long as they keep their heads down and the range open. All this assumes that the Colonial Marines are led by an officer with at least half a brain, of course, an advantage not enjoyed by the marines of Aliens. It also assumes that the Space Marines can not employ troops with jump packs to send armored troops into the midst of the enemy with twin bolt pistols blazing.

Against the Kzin, well, the Space Marines can match the mass, strength and fury of the Heroes in close combat, and the Space Marines have better body armor. The contest should be relatively even, though in the end I would bet on the Space Marines. Conventional projectile guns and laser rifles are unreliable against Space Marine armor, and the armor-piercing explosive 20 mm shells of Space Marine bolters are unlikely to take much notice of Kzin impact armor and will take absolutely no notice of superconduct cloaks.

Against clone troopers the Space Marines stand no chance unless they manage to close the range with the clones and can bring superior Space Marine mass and strength into play. Clone trooper armor is at least as protective as Space Marine armor, and at a fraction of the mass and bulk. The clone trooper rifles and carbines are high energy plasma weapons, a weapon type that Space Marine armor is not strong enough to withstand. In open field combat the clone troopers should win every engagement, matching their determination against Space Marine zeal. Also, since a chapter has only around a thousand fighting troops, and replacements can take years for their implanted organs to take, Space Marine losses are difficult to replace. Space Marine success relies on being the toughest and meanest and best protected, and clone troopers take that advantage away from them.

Jem'Hadar vs. Space Marines: Both employ similar tactics, but the Space Marines are heavier, stronger, meaner, armored, and in possession of squad level support weapons like flamers, missile launchers or heavy bolters, as well as dedicated fire support squads with massive loadouts of support weapons. The Jem'Hadar die in droves even if some of their standard weapons are classed as plasma rifles (per one line of dialogue that I recall). If a devastator squad or two is available to provide a Space Marine detachment with antipersonnel fire support, kill ratios should be at least 100:1 in favor of the Space Marines, possibly greater.

[NecronLord]

I think you might be underestimating the space marines there, Their weapons do have very good range, it's just scaled down as 40k is a wargame, In all of their background info their pistols can blw a mans head off at about a thousand yards.

However thier basic power armour is, powered armour. It can and does enhance their strength. In the background as opposed to the game they can easily take on ten normal humans, and could probably take on 5 clones with no difficulty. also they do have combined arms at least as good as the clone troopers,

[Dralan]

You seem to have forgotten one of the best infantry troops in this thread.

The High Guard's Imperial Lancers should be in the frey too...

[Patrick Ogaard]

I think you might be underestimating the space marines there, Their weapons do have very good range, it's just scaled down as 40k is a wargame, In all of their background info their pistols can blw a mans head off at about a thousand yards.

However thier basic power armour is, powered armour. It can and does enhance their strength. In the background as opposed to the game they can easily take on ten normal humans, and could probably take on 5 clones with no difficulty. also they do have combined arms at least as good as the clone troopers,

I'm not discounting the Imperium of Man's finest by any means. They're much too mean for that.

My evaluation is based primarily on the WH40K 3rd Edition Rulebook and the Space Marine Codex for the same edition.

The greatest weakness of the Space Marines when facing off against clone troopers is that the armor of Space Marines is not designed to stand up to high energy plasma weapons, and high energy plasma weapons technology is what the Galactic Empire has developed to an extremely high level. Under WH40K rules, plasma weapons tear through regular ceramite power armor like it isn't there, making the Space Marines extremely vulnerable to fire from the heavy military plasma guns used by clone troopers.

Conversely, the bolter is basically a low-velocity cross between a .75 caliber (or 20 mm) cannon and a rocket launcher. Boltguns and bolt pistols fire the same projectiles, with pistols just having smaller magazines and lower ranges. Even if one is downplays the effectiveness of clone trooper armor dramatically, it is still at least as protective as carapace armor, meaning that at least half of all bolter hits will fail to penetrate clone trooper armor.

The clone troopers should win, just because in WH40K terms they are troops outfitted with extremely high quality carapace armor and plasma guns that can not overheat. The clone troopers also display unshakeable morale similar to that of Space Marines.

The one major chance that the Space Marines have is to deploy as many rapid strike forces as possible, particularly close combat troops with jump packs and two close combat weapons each. A clone trooper's only chance in that situation is to put a big, smoking hole in the Space Marine's chest before the Imperium's genetically modified supersoldier rips the clone trooper into pieces. Back the close combat troops up with devastator squads and the Space Marines may be able to tip the scales in their favor occasionally.

[General G]

Imperal Guardsmen(40k) Nine to twelve Foot tall Bolter Carring Super Men with Armor to match and completly Fearless

I think your talking about the marines.

Imperial Guardsmen- Flak Vests, Lasguns, Tanks lots of tanks. prefer to use vast numbers of troops because they are not very strong compared to most of their enemys.

[Pablo Sanchez]

take absolutely no notice of superconduct cloaks.

I mistyped, I meant superconducting cloaks. They're just a cloak made of superconducting thread. It makes the Kzin almost impossible to kill with laser weapons, because the thermal effect heats the entire cloak at the same speed. If they're near a body of water, you should just give up.