The A380: Boom or Bust?

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The A380: Boom or Bust?

Post by HyperionX »

Airbus to Unveil $16 Billion Wager on the World's Biggest Plane

Jan. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest planemaker, tomorrow will unveil its 555-seat A380, a 12 billion- euro ($16 billion) wager that airlines will order giant aircraft to ferry passengers between major airports over the next 20 years.

The A380 will surpass Boeing Co.'s 35-year-old 747 as the world's largest passenger plane and is meant to help the Toulouse, France-based planemaker maintain its lead in sales and deliveries over Chicago-based Boeing, said Airbus Chief Executive Noel Forgeard on Jan. 12. Boeing has no plan for a competing aircraft.

Airbus said on Dec. 15 it expects be demand for 1,250 new planes seating at least 400 passengers and 398 giant freighters through 2024. It aims to get contracts for 700 of those aircraft and says the A380 will break even with 250 orders. Boeing, by contrast, estimates demand for about a third of the large planes.

``This is a plane for big airports, flying to other big airports,'' said Joseph Campbell, an analyst at Lehman Brothers in New York who has ``overweight/positive'' ratings on Airbus parent European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co. and Boeing. ``Maybe there's not room for two planes, but now, there's only one.''

The double-decker A380 plane has a wing span of 80 meters (262 feet), almost the length of an American football field. It's 73 meters long and weighs as much as 569 tons (1.2 million pounds) when fully loaded for takeoff. It will have a range of 8,000 nautical miles (15,000 kilometers) compared with 7,600 nautical miles for the Boeing 747-400.

Rising Shares

Shares of EADS have risen 28 percent over the last 12 months while those of Boeing are up 19 percent on expectations a recovery in airline passenger traffic will lead to increased demand for new planes. Traffic rose more than 10 percent in 2004 from a slump that began with the 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S.

The European planemaker has invited about 5,000 people to attend the A380 inauguration at its Toulouse headquarters. Guests include French President Jacques Chirac, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. France, Germany, Spain and the U.K. contributed 3.5 billion euros in loans to the 12 billion-euro development cost.

Airbus so far has firm orders for 139 of the planes and commitments for another 10. Customers include Singapore Airlines Ltd., Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Emirates, Air France-KLM Group, Virgin Atlantic Airways, and Korean Airlines. FedEx Corp. and United Parcel Service have ordered the freighter version.

Higher Sales

Forgeard, 58, said on Jan. 12 that the A380 will contribute as much as a third to the company's sales by 2008 and help revenue rise 50 percent by 2010 to about 30 billion euros. He said Airbus plans to build 35 of the planes annually from 2008. The plane has a list price of $280 million, compared with $198 million to $227 million for the 747-400. A380 test flights are scheduled to begin in March. The first plane is supposed to enter service in June 2006 with Singapore Airlines.

Boeing has received orders for 661 of the 747s since the plane was launched in the mid-1960s, of which 629 have already been delivered. Orders have slowed since Airbus started developing the A380. Over the last five years, it received orders for 81 of the 747s and delivered 120, according to information on its Web site. No passenger versions have been ordered since 2002.

The U.S. planemaker decided to develop a smaller plane, the 7E7, which would carry about 250 passengers on point-to-point trips such as between Chicago and Dusseldorf.

Connecting Hubs

The A380 will carry passengers between major hub airports, such as London's Heathrow to Tokyo, and then passengers would catch connecting flights. Boeing says there won't be enough demand for that type of travel to justify the investment expense in the A380.

``It's just a big airplane for a small market,'' Randy Bassler, Boeing vice president of airline marketing, said in an interview on Jan. 12. ``We really believe in our forecast that there's a good market for about 400 of these.''

Some analysts agree.

``I suspect that use of this plane will be limited to major hubs, leaving a very significant market for planes such as Boeing's 7e7,'' said Paul Nisbet, an analyst at JSA Research Inc. in Newport, Rhode Island, who has a ``buy'' recommendation on Boeing shares.

Airbus has promised airlines that the A380 will be 15 percent less expensive to operate than Boeing's 747.

``The aircraft should be a 'game changer' in the long-haul market,'' wrote JP Morgan analysts Chris Avery in a Jan. 11 report to investors. ``Increasing congestion at major airports, such as London Heathrow, and an ever-greater focus on costs, means that the A380 will deliver valuable benefits to its operators.''

Break-Even Point

According to Avery, the 747, with 413 seats, needs 290 passengers to break even. The A380, with 555 seats, needs 323 people to break even, meaning it has another 227 seats available to sell at a profit--85 percent more than the 747-400.

The A380 may help it achieve operating margins that are consistently higher than the 10 percent targeted by its parent company, EADS. Forgeard said on Jan. 12 that profit margins on the new plane will be higher than on existing models.

Nine-month operating profit as a percentage of sales at Airbus was 9.6 percent compared with a 5.8 percent margin at Boeing, Forgeard said.

BAA Plc, the world's biggest operator of airports and the owner of Heathrow, expects the new plane to account for one in eight flights there by 2016. Heathrow, the world's third-largest airport by passenger count, has only two runways. Atlanta, the largest, has four with a fifth under construction.

``Eight carriers that fly to Heathrow have ordered it and intend to use it at Heathrow,'' said Eryl Smith, development director of BAA Heathrow in an interview. ``For the international hub airports of the world, many of whom are constrained by runways, the A380 is critical to their growth. It will have same step-change effect to air travel as the 747.''
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Well, it's big, it's ugly, but it's potential benefits to airliners and airports are huge. So what do you think, success or failure?

Personally, I think it'll be a modest success seeing how Boeing's not interested in this market, but I doubt if it's going to be as good as sliced bread.
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Post by Sharpshooter »

Jesus; how much fuel is that thing gonna' guzzle down versus the amount of conventional aircraft able to carry the same number of passengers?
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Post by SyntaxVorlon »

Could work.
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Post by AMX »

Sharpshooter wrote:Jesus; how much fuel is that thing gonna' guzzle down versus the amount of conventional aircraft able to carry the same number of passengers?
Slightly less, AFAIK.
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Post by Frank Hipper »

AMX wrote:
Sharpshooter wrote:Jesus; how much fuel is that thing gonna' guzzle down versus the amount of conventional aircraft able to carry the same number of passengers?
Slightly less, AFAIK.
Significantly less, efficiency is this thing's selling point.
There's no way two planes that carry the same amount of passengers can possibly compete with it in terms of fuel efficiency and overall cost.
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Post by weemadando »

Hate to say it but I think Boeings 7E7 is going to eat the A3809 alive on the open market.

And thats coming from a former industry insider who read the business plans re both of them.
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Post by Dahak »

weemadando wrote:Hate to say it but I think Boeings 7E7 is going to eat the A3809 alive on the open market.

And thats coming from a former industry insider who read the business plans re both of them.
So far, the 7E7 failed to impress with pre-Orders. They were quite lower than Boeing anticipated.
Besides, they are targeting completely different market segments.
And since EADS has announced a direct competitor to the 7E7, this will be interesting in the future.
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Post by Shinova »

What an incredibly fat plane. Strange considering it's European-built and not American. Meh.
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Post by Crown »

Shinova wrote:What an incredibly fat plane. Strange considering it's European-built and not American. Meh.
It's a double decker. It has two levels for passengers. :wink:
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

The 7E7 is meant to go point-to-point. The aircraft is supposed to allow a passenger to travel between any two airports on the planet since Boeing gave up on supersonic of even transonic flight. I believe the 7E7's engine is still being looked at, IIRC it's either RR or GE again, like the 777. But that's from memory.

The A380 is following the tried and tested formula of big, not so fast, but efficient like the elderly Jumbo. Although not as readily accesible as the Jumbo, airports are planning on accomodating it in the future if this sets the trend and gets more popular (we're going to need seaplanes the way this is going).

In anycase, the future will hopefully see shorter waiting times, less delays and cheaper fares. In theory.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

Dahak wrote:
weemadando wrote:Hate to say it but I think Boeings 7E7 is going to eat the A3809 alive on the open market.

And thats coming from a former industry insider who read the business plans re both of them.
So far, the 7E7 failed to impress with pre-Orders. They were quite lower than Boeing anticipated.
Besides, they are targeting completely different market segments.
And since EADS has announced a direct competitor to the 7E7, this will be interesting in the future.
what will push the 7E7 over the top is it's ability to operate at small regional airports which are in great abundance around the world. Why would you want to shuffle 50-100 miles to one of the few massive airports able to accomodate Airbus' flying monstrosity when you can just use the nearby regional airport? The 7E7 is a brilliant business model while the A-380 concept is one from the past.
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Post by Howedar »

Frank Hipper wrote:
AMX wrote:
Sharpshooter wrote:Jesus; how much fuel is that thing gonna' guzzle down versus the amount of conventional aircraft able to carry the same number of passengers?
Slightly less, AFAIK.
Significantly less, efficiency is this thing's selling point.
There's no way two planes that carry the same amount of passengers can possibly compete with it in terms of fuel efficiency and overall cost.
It is true that two aircraft flying between (say) LAX and JFK. However, if you can route people on direct flights on a similarly efficient aircraft (recalling that the 7E7's main selling point is efficiency), you can chop off some distance, pleasing passengers and reducing flight miles. The advantage would obviously depend on the particular situation, but by no means is it positively held by either methodology.
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Post by Dahak »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Dahak wrote:
weemadando wrote:Hate to say it but I think Boeings 7E7 is going to eat the A3809 alive on the open market.

And thats coming from a former industry insider who read the business plans re both of them.
So far, the 7E7 failed to impress with pre-Orders. They were quite lower than Boeing anticipated.
Besides, they are targeting completely different market segments.
And since EADS has announced a direct competitor to the 7E7, this will be interesting in the future.
what will push the 7E7 over the top is it's ability to operate at small regional airports which are in great abundance around the world. Why would you want to shuffle 50-100 miles to one of the few massive airports able to accomodate Airbus' flying monstrosity when you can just use the nearby regional airport? The 7E7 is a brilliant business model while the A-380 concept is one from the past.
But, unlike Boeing's hopes that EADS would be tied up with the A380 development and leave the field relatively uncontested for Boeing, EADS has announced a new model based on the A330, the A350, which fits in this market segment. So I doubt Boeing will see the sells they hoped to get with the 7E7.
The A380, on the other hand, is relatively uncontested.
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Post by Ma Deuce »

But, unlike Boeing's hopes that EADS would be tied up with the A380 development and leave the field relatively uncontested for Boeing, EADS has announced a new model based on the A330, the A350, which fits in this market segment.
Still, the A350 won't be available for two years after the 7E7: that alone puts it at a disadvantage...
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Post by phongn »

Boeing is arguing that the A350 won't be as efficient as the 7E7 since the Airbus competitor is a modification to an existing design rather than a wholly new one. However, companies that traditionally go Airbus might stick with the A350 rather than switch to Boeing. Also, Boeing's needs to get their heads out of their ass and start trimming their profit margin; sure, TCO tends to be less with a Boeing aircraft (at least for the 777 vs. A340) but the up-front cost is usually quite a bit more.

I'm expecting the 7E7 to do quite well, especially when it comes time to replace all those 767s bought in the 1980s.
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Post by Jalinth »

Col. Crackpot wrote:what will push the 7E7 over the top is it's ability to operate at small regional airports which are in great abundance around the world. Why would you want to shuffle 50-100 miles to one of the few massive airports able to accomodate Airbus' flying monstrosity when you can just use the nearby regional airport? The 7E7 is a brilliant business model while the A-380 concept is one from the past.
The A-380 is not in the same market segment as the 7E7. The 7E7 is useless for the long point to point flights (LA to Singapore, London to Delhi, etc...) which is the main selling point for the A-380. I'd imagine the A-380 is only on the trans-Continental routes while the 7E7 fights for the intraContinental routes. The volume on these long-haul flights is steadily increasing, and they are natural for the hub system. How many people want to fly to Atlanta, Newark, etc... from Delhi? Much less than want to fly to the US and then get redistributed aboard domestic flights.

Also, trans-Continental means customs and immigration - which not all regional airports accomodate. So practically, international flights cannot use these smaller airports.
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Post by Mayabird »

Even if the A380 is a bust, Airbus will still get plenty of subsidies and won't have to worry about going out of business, and they'll start throwing money at their next project.
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Post by Chmee »

If the long-haul APAC/EMEA markets stay in a boom, there's probably enough demand to make it at least a break-even project.

But there's certainly a risk that it's just like the last overpriced, government-subsidized whale that the Brits and French took a chance on while Boeing moved on to other things ...... can you say Concorde? Oui!
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Mayabird wrote:Even if the A380 is a bust, Airbus will still get plenty of subsidies and won't have to worry about going out of business, and they'll start throwing money at their next project.
And the Europeans have the gall to complain that we Subsidize Boeing
with defense contracts, despite Boeing having to COMPETE against
Airbus in those same defense contracts
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Post by Montcalm »

Bigger plane to carry more passengers,but will never be filled at its maximum capacity.
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Post by Admiral Valdemar »

Chmee wrote:If the long-haul APAC/EMEA markets stay in a boom, there's probably enough demand to make it at least a break-even project.

But there's certainly a risk that it's just like the last overpriced, government-subsidized whale that the Brits and French took a chance on while Boeing moved on to other things ...... can you say Concorde? Oui!
That project was more of a technology demonstrator than anything else. It was never meant to go mainstream anyway and sonic booms restrict where it can be used.

The idea that if you want to see the future of aero transport you need to go to a museum now still sticks in my mind. I'd like faster flights, not more comfortable ones. If I wanted the latter, I'd bring back the airships. Now that is style.
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Post by Mayabird »

MKSheppard wrote:
Mayabird wrote:Even if the A380 is a bust, Airbus will still get plenty of subsidies and won't have to worry about going out of business, and they'll start throwing money at their next project.
And the Europeans have the gall to complain that we Subsidize Boeing
with defense contracts, despite Boeing having to COMPETE against
Airbus in those same defense contracts
And Boeing is also competing with Lockheed-Martin, among other companies. Airbus competes with who else in Europe, exactly? Other French subsidy pets?
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Post by Mayabird »

Bah, didn't mean to click. I was going to change that to say all Airbus has to compete with are other French pet subsidy projects, like their movie subsidies.

Yeah, I don't like Airbus too much.
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Post by Chmee »

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Chmee wrote:If the long-haul APAC/EMEA markets stay in a boom, there's probably enough demand to make it at least a break-even project.

But there's certainly a risk that it's just like the last overpriced, government-subsidized whale that the Brits and French took a chance on while Boeing moved on to other things ...... can you say Concorde? Oui!
That project was more of a technology demonstrator than anything else. It was never meant to go mainstream anyway and sonic booms restrict where it can be used.

The idea that if you want to see the future of aero transport you need to go to a museum now still sticks in my mind. I'd like faster flights, not more comfortable ones. If I wanted the latter, I'd bring back the airships. Now that is style.
Well, Boeing looked at the Sonic Cruiser before the 7E7, it was going to cruise at just below the sound barrier on long-haul flights, very efficiently compared to Concorde ... but none of the economic analysis said it would sell. Looked cool in the design studies, though.
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Post by Montcalm »

Mayabird wrote:Bah, didn't mean to click. I was going to change that to say all Airbus has to compete with are other French pet subsidy projects, like their movie subsidies.

Yeah, I don't like Airbus too much.
Lucky the plane is not built by Bombardier.
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