India: Pakistan Fires Across Kashmir Line

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2005-01-18 03:18pm

link

NEW DELHI - India accused Pakistani soldiers Tuesday of firing mortar shells across the dividing line in Kashmir (news - web sites) in the first violation of a 14-month cease-fire between the South Asian nuclear-armed rivals.

The cease-fire was the longest since an insurgent campaign in the divided Himalayan province began in 1989. Both countries claim the mainly Muslim, former princely state in its entirety and have fought two wars over it.

A senior army official said there were no casualties on the Indian side, and Indian troops had not retaliated.

"It certainly is a violation of the cease-fire. This is the first time this has happened. We have exercised full restraint," Maj. Gen. Deepak Summanwar told the private NDTV news channel. "Seven to eight rounds of mortars were fired. All our patrols ... have been alerted."

The reports of firing came hours after another setback to the ties between the traditional South Asian rivals, which are now pursuing peace. Islamabad accused New Delhi of deliberately scuttling talks on a disputed dam that India is building on its side of Kashmir and appealed to the World Bank (news - web sites) to help resolve the issue.

Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokesman Masood Khan said the dispute will cast a "bad light" on the peace dialogue.

For decades, India and Pakistan regularly fired at each other across the cease-fire line, killing soldiers and civilians and damaging homes and farmland. However, they agreed to a cease-fire in November 2003 along the disputed Kashmir frontier and international border.

Indian military officials in Kashmir said Tuesday's firing may have been carried out to provide cover to a batch of Islamic militants crossing into the Indian side of Kashmir from the Pakistan-controlled part of the Himalayan region.

Rebels based in Pakistan routinely cross over to India to wage attacks as part of their campaign to carve out a separate homeland or merge the Indian-controlled area into Pakistan. Five such rebels were killed Monday night in the mountainous Achhar sector, said B.D. Sharma, inspector general of the Border Security Force.

India accuses Pakistan of allowing militants to train in camps on its territory and supporting attacks that kill civilians, police and soldiers. Pakistan denies the allegations.

Nearly 66,000 people, mostly civilians, have died in the conflict.

Military officials in Jammu, the winter capital of Jammu-Kashmir state, said the firing took place just north of Punch town, about 150 miles northwest of Jammu at the army's Durga Post.

India and Pakistan are holding regular talks on a series of disputes that have haunted their relations since 1947, when British colonialists left the subcontinent and the new Islamic nation of Pakistan was carved out of Indian mainland.

They have since fought three wars, two of them over their rival claims over Kashmir.

dr. what · Post by **dr. what** » 2005-01-18 03:22pm

--er--Title should read India....not ndia...damn lack of edit...

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-18 03:48pm

"Oops ... oops again! Ooops .... eight times! Darn this mortar is tricky ..."

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2005-01-18 03:57pm

Might be some millitant asshats trying to stir up trouble.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2005-01-18 05:11pm

Wonderful, not even nukes can keep those morons cool!

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2005-01-19 12:59am

Hasn't this kind of thing been going on for some time now - several decades at least?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-19 01:07am

EmperorMing wrote:Hasn't this kind of thing been going on for some time now - several decades at least?

Yes. Pakistan and India have fought three wars against each other, two of them being over Kashmir (the third being over East Pakistan, which was later renamed Bangladesh). There was even a small scale confrontation in the late '90s after each country acquired nukes, but that wasn't a war by any stretch of the imagination. Suffice it to say, there is some bad blood between these two countries. So much so that my IR tutour commented that it would be more likely seeing a war blow up over Kashmir than over Taiwan or Korea.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-19 01:09am

[EDIT] It's somewhat to do with centuries long history, as well as the colonial days of the British Empire, plus their quick pullout post-WW2. The division of land was seen as unfair by both sides, even if India got way more than Pakistan to begin with.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-01-19 01:42am

Well, if they fight another war, Pakistan will just get beaten like a red-headed step-child. Again.

darthdavid · Post by **darthdavid** » 2005-01-19 01:45am

were movin' through kashmir...

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-19 01:48am

Vympel wrote:Well, if they fight another war, Pakistan will just get beaten like a red-headed step-child. Again.

Probably ... which certainly isn't in our interest. We don't want to see *any* nuclear powers getting beat like a red-headed step-child in a conventional confrontation. People get unreasonable when they're getting their ass kicked.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2005-01-19 10:46am

Nothing new, they had been doing this kind of thing for ages now.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-19 11:34am

Chmee wrote:
Vympel wrote:Well, if they fight another war, Pakistan will just get beaten like a red-headed step-child. Again.
Probably ... which certainly isn't in our interest. We don't want to see *any* nuclear powers getting beat like a red-headed step-child in a conventional confrontation. People get unreasonable when they're getting their ass kicked.

Yes, but it would give the world's Muslims someone new to channel their hatred towards.

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2005-01-19 12:06pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:it would give the world's Muslims someone new to channel their hatred towards.

Nah... They would find a way to twist it around so that it was our fault anyway. The raving lunatics hate everyone anyway.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2005-01-19 12:11pm

Gods, when will Kashmir just fucking take its independence.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-19 12:11pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Chmee wrote:
Vympel wrote:Well, if they fight another war, Pakistan will just get beaten like a red-headed step-child. Again.
Probably ... which certainly isn't in our interest. We don't want to see *any* nuclear powers getting beat like a red-headed step-child in a conventional confrontation. People get unreasonable when they're getting their ass kicked.
Yes, but it would give the world's Muslims someone new to channel their hatred towards.

I'd be perfectly happy if they just channeled their hatred toward Eminem and Britney, like the rest of us. Let's bring them into the modern world!!

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-01-19 12:13pm

When will this stop? I thought that Pakistan and India had been moving forward with this issue. And I fail to see why a few rocks and mountains are worth fighting about.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-01-19 12:17pm

The Shadow wrote:Nothing new, they had been doing this kind of thing for ages now.

I'm a bit surprised that eight mortar rounds that didn't hit anything are even considered a cease-fire violation; I never thought they could go fourteen whole months without at least that level of pointless violence in a weekly basis. Chances are though, that this was just some low level officer deciding his infantry companies mortar section needed some live fire practice, with no one of a higher level being involved.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-19 12:18pm

Reminds me of the Pakistani CO in Vertical Limit near K2: "Time to wake up the Indians."

*Launches a barrage of 155mm howitzer fire*

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-01-19 12:20pm

Mange the Swede wrote:When will this stop? I thought that Pakistan and India had been moving forward with this issue. And I fail to see why a few rocks and mountains are worth fighting about.

The area the fighting is taking place is quite useless, but it just happens to be the front line in a conflict for control of all of Kashmir, which does happen to have a quite large population, though not so many other resources. War is full of that sort of thing. Look how many people died fighting in the completely valueless and empty (at the time, the oil got discovered later) deserts of Libya and Egypt during WW2.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2005-01-19 12:40pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Reminds me of the Pakistani CO in Vertical Limit near K2: "Time to wake up the Indians."

*Launches a barrage of 155mm howitzer fire*

I remember reading a National Geographic article on climbing K2, with the team recalling seeing the flashes and explosions of mortar fire on the lower lying glaciers and slopes as they climbed. That'd have to be a once in a lifetime, probably, experience.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2005-01-20 01:40am

Mange the Swede wrote:When will this stop? I thought that Pakistan and India had been moving forward with this issue. And I fail to see why a few rocks and mountains are worth fighting about.

Well it is not about the mountains really but the state of Kasmir. When the Indo-Pak partition happened in 1947 Kashmir joined India even though it was a muslim region because the king was hindu. The residents did not like it. One third of Kashmir joined Pakistan. Pakistan wants Kashmir to join it and funds seperatists waging insurgency there. Since 1988 a bloody guirilla war is being conducted there that has so far killed around 35000.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-01-20 04:51am

More violence between Middle East countries? Aren't they holding hands singing with love yet?

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-01-20 05:25am

Robert Walper wrote: More violence between Middle East countries? Aren't they holding hands singing with love yet?

India and Pakistan are not middle east countries. They're a subcontinent of Asia, hence why it's usually called South Asia.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2005-01-20 05:49am

Stofsk wrote:
Robert Walper wrote: More violence between Middle East countries? Aren't they holding hands singing with love yet?
India and Pakistan are not middle east countries. They're a subcontinent of Asia, hence why it's usually called South Asia.

Geography was never my strong point...obviously. But they are in that general area...