The A380: Boom or Bust?

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Post Reply
User avatar
AMX
Jedi Knight
Posts: 853
Joined: 2004-09-30 06:43am

Post by AMX »

Ma Deuce wrote:Freighters require shorter takeoff distances than liners, because relieved of the concerns of passenger safety and comfort, they can affort to subject the aircraft to higher pitch/roll conditions.
Digging through the article again, it appears that even in normal service (as opposed to delivery from the factory), the passenger version will have 50m less than the freighter; probably because of the lower weight.
If you didn't notice, they did give a graph showing the takeoff distance at various weights...
So they did.
So I looked it over again.
They did not give any of the values necessary to determine the validity of the graph (all those pretty letters in Figure 5).
But they did admit that they did not know the actual values:
Since the A380 aerodynamic coefficients are not known, they has been determined for comparison (regression analysis) with other aircrafts. Therefore the validity of the numerical results obtained in this research are subordinated to the real values that the aircraft will achieve in the homologation tests.
Since Airbus seems to believe that 3300m will be enough at 540t, and this appears to be well below the graph, I'd recommend not to rely on that research paper too much.


As for the added passenger bulk - building larger terminals should be politically much easier than building more runways...
Top
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10228
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:
Contact Col. Crackpot

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Dahak wrote:They were afraid the Boeing 747 would be too large for airports back when it was introduced.
We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out with the A380...
there is a difference though. The Boeng 747 was designed to use runways and terminals already in existance and used by the already existing 707. The A-380 needs runways that don't exist in any major airport other than Charles DeGaulle. It's required terminals don't exist anywhere yet
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Top
User avatar
Ma Deuce
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4359
Joined: 2004-02-02 03:22pm
Location: Whitby, Ontario

Post by Ma Deuce »

Since Airbus seems to believe that 3300m will be enough at 540t, and this appears to be well below the graph, I'd recommend not to rely on that research paper too much.
The FAA probably won't agree with them, given that they tend to set such requirements more liberally than the manufacturers. For example, Airbus thinks the A380 will get by with a runway width of 45m, but the FAA wants 60m...
Image
The M2HB: The Greatest Machinegun Ever Made.
HAB: Crew-Served Weapons Specialist

"Making fun of born-again Christians is like hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle and scope." --P.J. O'Rourke

"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." --J.S. Mill
Top
User avatar
Dahak
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7292
Joined: 2002-10-29 12:08pm
Location: Admiralty House, Landing, Manticore
Contact:
Contact Dahak

Post by Dahak »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
Dahak wrote:They were afraid the Boeing 747 would be too large for airports back when it was introduced.
We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out with the A380...
there is a difference though. The Boeng 747 was designed to use runways and terminals already in existance and used by the already existing 707. The A-380 needs runways that don't exist in any major airport other than Charles DeGaulle. It's required terminals don't exist anywhere yet
But many airports are already starting with adapting to it.
San Fransico is the first US airport to have reached A380-capability.
Asia has 12 airports ready for it.
Many US airports already started, or planning to start, the upgrade soon.
Frankfurt/Main plans to finish their first terminal in mid-2005, and Munich is already capable of handling it.
So it is not so bad as you make it out to be...
Image
Great Dolphin Conspiracy - Chatter box
"Implications: we have been intercepted deliberately by a means unknown, for a purpose unknown, and transferred to a place unknown by a form of intelligence unknown. Apart from the unknown, everything is obvious." ZORAC
GALE Force Euro Wimp
Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Image
Top
User avatar
xcr
Youngling
Posts: 134
Joined: 2004-11-21 04:12pm
Location: New Brunswick

Post by xcr »

The A-380 will fit in the largest standerd size of docking bearth at current airport terminals. Or it could be borded by a staircase (3/4 times I have been through heathrow, as well as some in Sydney and Melborne, this is How I boarded... givin what a 747 looks like from such a prospective, I hate to think what the A380 will...)

As for runways, that could be a problem...
Top
User avatar
Jade Falcon
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1705
Joined: 2004-07-27 06:22pm
Location: Jade Falcon HQ, Ayr, Scotland, UK
Contact:
Contact Jade Falcon

Post by Jade Falcon »

Uraniun235 wrote: Drives me batshit insane with rage that people will move into an area right under the flight path of a major runway, and then start bitching about it.
I've never got that either, It was different when some of the airports were a lot smaller decades ago and suddenly got expanded due to the jet age, but anyone that buys a house near an airport now should have some idea of what to expect.
Don't Move you're surrounded by Armed Bastards - Gene Hunt's attempt at Diplomacy

I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own - Number 6

The very existence of flame-throwers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.
Top
User avatar
Chmee
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4449
Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?

Post by Chmee »

xcr wrote:The A-380 will fit in the largest standerd size of docking bearth at current airport terminals. Or it could be borded by a staircase (3/4 times I have been through heathrow, as well as some in Sydney and Melborne, this is How I boarded... givin what a 747 looks like from such a prospective, I hate to think what the A380 will...)

As for runways, that could be a problem...
Man I hate getting off a long flight and finding out I'm going to be climbing down stairs and getting on a BUS (like Heathrow) .... I want to walk off the plane, get on some kind of high-speed people mover that's going to take me to baggage claim, grab my bag and exit the terminal.

At Schiphol, this usually takes around 30 minutes tops from the time you pull up to the gate to the time you get onto the train into town. At Heathrow ... ugh ... the Airport That Time Forgot.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
Top
fighterace
Redshirt
Posts: 17
Joined: 2004-07-12 07:48pm

Post by fighterace »

I know I'm a little late in this thread, but am I the only the who's having flashbacks to the Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose?

Hope the plane does well. I don't believe any of the hype about having bars and other things on the plane. Simple economics, the airlines, being strapped for cash, will stuff their customers in there like sardines.

Bars and beds are for trains, not planes, unless your willing to fork over several thousand dollars for a ticket.
Top
User avatar
xcr
Youngling
Posts: 134
Joined: 2004-11-21 04:12pm
Location: New Brunswick

Post by xcr »

Some airlines will put bars etc. on the plane, but as you said, only for first class, or perhaps middle.
Tran is actually m preferred way to travel- it is relaxed, comfortable, more than fast enough, and one keeps the scenery and sense of travel. This applies most to the long-haul sleeper trains (esp. Via rail and the like. the 3rd class sleeper I look in France... less so- Id take Via coach over that.)

Well the busses at Heathrow are irritating, it is would be no worse with the a380. Of course, there are also hanger issues etc...
Top
User avatar
Chmee
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4449
Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?

Post by Chmee »

All the stuff about upstairs bars & amenities was talked about when the 747 came out too .... the bottom line became a lot bigger priority.

Not that the current upstairs first-class section of a 747 is such a bad thing.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
Top
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

Actually, last I checked the upper deck is very rarely first class. In a three-class setup, first class is in the extreme nose, while the upper deck is business class. Two-class I believe has a sardine upper deck.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
Top
User avatar
Chmee
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4449
Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?

Post by Chmee »

Howedar wrote:Actually, last I checked the upper deck is very rarely first class. In a three-class setup, first class is in the extreme nose, while the upper deck is business class. Two-class I believe has a sardine upper deck.
Yeah, that's right ... they have some name for the section, but upper deck is Business in that 3-class setup.
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
Top
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

Looks like just business to me.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
Top
User avatar
Chmee
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4449
Joined: 2004-12-23 03:29pm
Location: Seattle - we already buried Hendrix ... Kurt who?

Post by Chmee »

"They" being the individual airline, they hardly ever call Business "Business" any more, it's always World Smeghead or something now .....
[img=right]http://www.tallguyz.com/imagelib/chmeesig.jpg[/img]My guess might be excellent or it might be crummy, but
Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
make guesses in front of a district attorney,
an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer.
Sam Spade, "The Maltese Falcon"
Operation Freedom Fry
Top
User avatar
Jon
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1501
Joined: 2004-03-02 10:11am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by Jon »

Nice...
Top
User avatar
Jon
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1501
Joined: 2004-03-02 10:11am
Location: Manchester UK

Post by Jon »

Damn those session driven links...

Check out the 'Photos' link on this page:

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29
Top
Post Reply

Return to “News and Politics”