Israel to kill in US, allied nations

Lord MJ · Post by **Lord MJ** » 2005-01-19 04:06pm

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=200 ... 5849-6156r

Israel to kill in U.S., allied nations
By Richard Sale
UPI Intelligence Correspondent

Published 1/15/2003 7:14 PM

Israel is embarking upon a more aggressive approach to the war on terror that will include staging targeted killings in the United States and other friendly countries, former Israeli intelligence officials told United Press International.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has forbidden the practice until now, these sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The Israeli statements were confirmed by more than a half dozen former and currently serving U.S. foreign policy and intelligence officials in interviews with United Press International.

But an official at the Israeli Embassy in Washington told UPI: "That is rubbish. It is completely untrue. Israel and the United States have such a close and co-operative intelligence relationship, especially in the field of counter-terrorism, that the assertion is ludicrous."

With the appointment of Meir Dagan, the new director of Israel's Mossad secret intelligence service, Sharon is preparing "a huge budget" increase for the spy agency as part of "a tougher stance in fighting global jihad (or holy war)," one Israeli official said.

Since Sharon became Israeli prime minister, Tel Aviv has mainly limited its practice of targeted killings to the West Bank and Gaza because "no one wanted such operations on their territory," a former Israeli intelligence official said.

Another former Israeli government official said that under Sharon, "diplomatic constraints have prevented the Mossad from carrying out 'preventive operations' (targeted killings) on the soil of friendly countries until now."

He said Sharon is "reversing that policy, even if it risks complications to Israel's bilateral relations."

A former Israeli military intelligence source agreed: "What Sharon wants is a much more extensive and tough approach to global terrorism, and this includes greater operational maneuverability."

Does this mean assassinations on the soil of allies?

"It does," he said.

"Mossad is definitely being beefed up," a U.S. government official said of the Israeli agency's budget increase. He declined to comment on the Tel Aviv's geographic expansion of targeted killings.

An FBI spokesman also declined to comment, saying: "This is a policy matter. We only enforce federal laws."

A congressional staff member with deep knowledge of intelligence matters said, "I don't know on what basis we would be able to protest Israel's actions." He referred to the recent killing of Qaed Salim Sinan al Harethi, a top al Qaida leader, in Yemen by a remotely controlled CIA drone.

"That was done on the soil of a friendly ally," the staffer said.

But the complications posed by Israel's new policy are real.

"Israel does not have a good record at doing this sort of thing," said former CIA counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson.

He cited the 1997 fiasco where two Mossad agents were captured after they tried to assassinate Khaled Mashaal, a Hamas political leader, by injecting him with poison.

According to Johnson, the attempt, made in Amman, Jordan, caused a political crisis in Israeli-Jordan relations. In addition, because the Israeli agents carried Canadian passports, Canada withdrew its ambassador in protest, he said. Jordan is one of two Arab nations to recognize Israel. The other is Egypt.

At the time, Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said, "I have no intention of stopping the activities of this government against terror," according to a CNN report.

Former CIA officials say Israel was forced to free jailed Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmad Yassin and 70 other Jordanian and Palestinian prisoner being held in Israeli jails to secure the release of the two would-be Mossad assassins.

Phil Stoddard, former director of the Middle East Institute, cited a botched plot to kill Ali Hassan Salemeh, the mastermind of the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre. The 1974 attempt severely embarrassed Mossad when the Israeli hit team mistakenly assassinated a Moroccan waiter in Lillehammer, Norway.

Salemeh, later a CIA asset, was killed in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1976 by a car bomb placed by an Israeli assassination team, former U.S. intelligence officials said.

"Israel knew Salemeh was providing us with preventive intelligence on the Palestinians and his being killed pissed off a lot of people," said a former senior CIA official.

But some Israeli operations have been successful.

Gerald Bull, an Ontario-born U.S. citizen and designer of the Iraqi supergun -- a massive artillery system capable of launching satellites into orbit, and of delivering nuclear chemical or biological payloads from Baghdad to Israel -- was killed in Belgium in March 1990. The killing is still unsolved, but former CIA officials said a Mossad hit team is the most likely suspect.

Bull worked on the supergun design -- codenamed Project Babylon -- for 10 years, and helped the Iraqis develop many smaller artillery systems. He was found with five bullets in his head outside his Brussels apartment.

Israeli hit teams, which consist of units or squadrons of the Kidon, a sub-unit for Mossad's highly secret Metsada department, would stage the operations, former Israeli intelligence sources said. Kidon is a Hebrew word meaning "bayonet," one former Israeli intelligence source said.

This Israeli government source explained that in the past Israel has not staged targeted killings in friendly countries because "no one wanted such operations on their territory."

This has become irrelevant, he said.

Dagan, the new hard-driving director of Mossad, will implement the new changes, former Israeli government officials said.

Dagan, nicknamed "the gun," was Sharon's adviser on counter-terrorism during the government of Netanyahu in 1996, former Israeli government officials say. A former military man, Dagan has also undertaken extremely sensitive diplomatic missions for several of Israel's prime ministers, former Israeli government sources said.

Former Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Gal Luft, who served under Dagan, described him as an "extremely creative individual -- creative to the point of recklessness."

A former CIA official who knows Dagan said the new Mossad director knows "his foreign affairs inside and out," and has a "real killer instinct."

Dagan is also "an intelligence natural" who has "a superb analyst not afraid to act on gut instinct," the former CIA official said.

Dagan has already removed Mossad officials whom he regards as "being too conservative or too cautious" and is building up "a constituency of senior people of the same mentality," one former long-time Israeli operative said.

Dagan is also urging that Mossad operatives rely less on secret sources and rely more on open information that is so plentifully provided on the Internet and newspapers.

"It's a cultural thing," one former Israeli intelligence operative explained. "Mossad in the past has put its emphasis on Humint (human intelligence) and secret operations and has neglected the whole field of open media, which has become extremely important."

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-01-19 04:22pm

*stares* What the fuck? This is insane if it's for real....

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2005-01-19 04:59pm

Doesn't sound right. Targeted killings on US soil would be the exact wrong thing to do, especially with President Bush now in for a second term. Not many in Israel are that stupid, and if they've taken power, Israel has worse problems than the outside...

CJvR · Post by **CJvR** » 2005-01-19 05:03pm

Sounds like a quick way to turn friendly countries into less friendly countries and Israel is burdened by an excess of friends as it is...

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-01-19 05:23pm

Since when has Israel NOT done this anyway?

Somebody care to help me out with the list of assassinations on foreign soil that Mossad has carried out in the past.

Some notables being:
Ahmed Bouchik - Lillehammer, Norway, using Canadian passports
Khaled Mashal (attempted) - Jordan, using Canadian passports
Jürgen Möllemann (allegedly) - Germany (parachuting "accident")
Gerald Bull - Paris

Thats what I can think of quickly...

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-19 05:40pm

Smirt spionum.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2005-01-19 05:46pm

I predict this taking a turn for the worst. Imagine a Mossad agent accidently killing an American cop, or <gasp!> a kid. People here would be stirred up ino an emotional frenzy. American aid to Israel would disappear faster than you can say shalom!

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-19 05:50pm

weemadando wrote:Since when has Israel NOT done this anyway?

Somebody care to help me out with the list of assassinations on foreign soil that Mossad has carried out in the past.

Some notables being:
Ahmed Bouchik - Lillehammer, Norway, using Canadian passports
Khaled Mashal (attempted) - Jordan, using Canadian passports
Jürgen Möllemann (allegedly) - Germany (parachuting "accident")
Gerald Bull - Paris

Thats what I can think of quickly...

I'm pretty sure they killed the wrong target (an inocent bystander) somewhere in Scandanavia ... I think it was Sweden.

This smacks to me like the time Congress aproved the secret (

) plan to assasinate Saddam!

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-19 06:11pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:I predict this taking a turn for the worst. Imagine a Mossad agent accidently killing an American cop, or <gasp!> a kid. People here would be stirred up ino an emotional frenzy. American aid to Israel would disappear faster than you can say shalom!

Yeah right. Israel would need to declare war on your country to have that aid dissapear. "It was an accident, we're sorry!"

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-01-19 07:30pm

BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:I predict this taking a turn for the worst. Imagine a Mossad agent accidently killing an American cop, or <gasp!> a kid. People here would be stirred up ino an emotional frenzy. American aid to Israel would disappear faster than you can say shalom!
Yeah right. Israel would need to declare war on your country to have that aid dissapear. "It was an accident, we're sorry!"

What kinda like bombing a US ship?

US: "Hey you attacked our ship!"

Israel: "Fuck you, like we care you goddamn facist fuckers."

US: "Oh, sorry. Here, have some more money."

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-19 07:38pm

weemadando wrote:
BoredShirtless wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:I predict this taking a turn for the worst. Imagine a Mossad agent accidently killing an American cop, or <gasp!> a kid. People here would be stirred up ino an emotional frenzy. American aid to Israel would disappear faster than you can say shalom!
Yeah right. Israel would need to declare war on your country to have that aid dissapear. "It was an accident, we're sorry!"
What kinda like bombing a US ship?

US: "Hey you attacked our ship!"

Israel: "Fuck you, like we care you goddamn facist fuckers."

US: "Oh, sorry. Here, have some more money."

Been there, done that

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-19 07:48pm

Chmee wrote:
Been there, done that

Wow, what a total coincidence. It's almost as if he knew before-hand and was saying it sarcastically because it's a historical fuck up showing how much it takes for Israel to really make a dent on US relations.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-19 07:50pm

Chmee wrote:Been there, done that

dude...

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-19 07:50pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Wow, what a total coincidence. It's almost as if he knew before-hand and was saying it sarcastically because it's a historical fuck up showing how much it takes for Israel to really make a dent on US relations.

I doubt it's a coincidence at all ... but a shocking number of people you talk to seem blissfully ignorant of the Liberty incident, so a link didn't hurt anyone.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-01-19 07:51pm

Col. Crackpot wrote:I predict this taking a turn for the worst. Imagine a Mossad agent accidently killing an American cop, or <gasp!> a kid. People here would be stirred up ino an emotional frenzy. American aid to Israel would disappear faster than you can say shalom!

Or a Mossad agent blowing up an entire household and all its occupants to kill one terrorist.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2005-01-19 07:54pm

Chmee wrote: I doubt it's a coincidence at all ... but a shocking number of people you talk to seem blissfully ignorant of the Liberty incident, so a link didn't hurt anyone.

All the same, you need to come to terms with ando brand humour mit sarcasm.

I actually do wonder if it would take a declaration of war before America stopped taking it up the back passage and told Israel to shove it.

Post by **weemadando** » 2005-01-19 08:04pm

I was aware of the incident which was why I chose that particular approach to the subject.

But I'm sure I can come up with another angle, kind of like:

US: OK, we've got this plan for peace, all you need to do is-

Israel: *while casually shooting out the window* Peace plans? We don't need your stinking peace plans!

US: Well, shit, sorry, errr - would you like some more money?

This isn't to say that the Palestinians or anyone in the middle east are generally any better, but for some reason the Israeli's seem to be adept at getting away with it.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-01-19 08:10pm

Meh get back to me when something better than third information is moving around.

If Mossad planned to go on a massive killing spree I HIGHLY doubt that the first step would be installing a new official. Putting a new man in charge, purging the upper ranks, and expecting the other guys not to hear about would be retarded. It is entirely likely that Mossad is bluffing and simply hoping that useful idiots will instill some fear of sudden death into their enemies without doing a damn thing.

As far as the Liberty, that was one of those friendly fire things that has happened in just about every war in the modern era. It makes zero sense to attack the ship, but not sink it, and then render aid. Aside from it being a larger cock-up how is it different than downing airliners or Birtish fighters by mistake?

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2005-01-19 08:41pm

tharkûn wrote:Meh get back to me when something better than third information is moving around.

Some things change, but you can always depend on tharkûn to stick up for Israel.

If Mossad planned to go on a massive killing spree I HIGHLY doubt that the first step would be installing a new official.

Who said anything about a massive killing spree? There's rhetoric...then there's outright reading incomprehension.

Putting a new man in charge, purging the upper ranks, and expecting the other guys not to hear about would be retarded.

Because Israel has never done anything retarded before, huh?

It is entirely likely that Mossad is bluffing and simply hoping that useful idiots will instill some fear of sudden death into their enemies without doing a damn thing.

Bullshit. Mossad has been caught assassinating people before. The idea is credible, isn't new, and inline with the rest of their stupidity.

As far as the Liberty, that was one of those friendly fire things that has happened in just about every war in the modern era. It makes zero sense to attack the ship, but not sink it, and then render aid. Aside from it being a larger cock-up how is it different than downing airliners or Birtish fighters by mistake?

Who said it was different?

And according to the CNN link, the Libery incident was NOT friendly fire.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2005-01-19 09:01pm

weemadando wrote:I was aware of the incident which was why I chose that particular approach to the subject.

But I'm sure I can come up with another angle, kind of like:

US: OK, we've got this plan for peace, all you need to do is-

Israel: *while casually shooting out the window* Peace plans? We don't need your stinking peace plans!

US: Well, shit, sorry, errr - would you like some more money?

You know that the exact same thing could be said about the Palestinians, right?

This isn't to say that the Palestinians or anyone in the middle east are generally any better, but for some reason the Israeli's seem to be adept at getting away with it.

Maybe because theUS likes countries that support us, and are not trying to kill them?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2005-01-20 03:10am

weemadando wrote: Jürgen Möllemann (allegedly) - Germany (parachuting "accident")

That was an sucicide.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2005-01-20 11:02am

Some things change, but you can always depend on tharkûn to stick up for Israel.

I see, pointing out that the article in question was basically a giant appeal to unnamed authority is "supporting Israel". When the reporter gives me some reason to beleive their sources then I'll treat the story as more than hearsay

Yes I support Israel, I support the only functioning democracy in the middleeast and the only state there where Arab women are treated better than chattel. Unlike you Israel isn't a nebulous boogyman to me, I have relatives in the IDF and one who used to be in the Knesset. I've been there, I know people, and frankly I grow ridiciously tired of the BS perception idiots who have never gone to Israel or know Israelis spew forth.

That is not to say that I support everything Israel does, for instance Sharon's decision to stonewall Abu Mazen is point blank idioacy. But I don't buy into the mythos that all Israelis are agressive "greater zionists" or that they go out of their way to harm the Palestinians. There is a fanatical minority who are asshats that ruin most things, much as another fanatical minority does so in the territories.

Who said anything about a massive killing spree? There's rhetoric...then there's outright reading incomprehension.

Hyperbole. Making a point through the deliberate use of gross exaggeration.

The point, using smaller words, is that if Mossad plans to go kill militants abroad they would mostly just go do it.

Because Israel has never done anything retarded before, huh?

If there are two options facing a nation-state one of which is stupid and the other of which is not, most often they will choose the more intellegent one. In other words until evidence to the contrary comes up I'm going to beleive they didn't make asses of themselves.

Look Sharon may be a hawkish bastard, but he is not a stupid hawkish bastard.

Mossad has been caught assassinating people before. The idea is credible, isn't new, and inline with the rest of their stupidity.

Mossad doesn't need a new upper level administration to go kill people. The internal structure is such that it could have been done with direct cabinet approval. Tell me how many of Israel's previous killings were preceded by an administrative purge? The fact that they have killed before does make it possible that they are attempting to trade off that reputation without doing a damn thing.

Who said it was different?

And according to the CNN link, the Libery incident was NOT friendly fire.

Weemadando's little dialogue and apparently CNN. What happened is the Liberty was offshore and was tracked as being a neutral, when shifts changed in the pit the marker was taken down and when it was resighted and eventually labeled as a hostile Egyptian ship. The moment it was noticed that the ship had non-Arabic numerals the Israeli command went pissed scared - thinking they had hit a Soviet warship.

The Liberty was attacked because it was mistakenly identified as an enemy vessel. Mistakes like that unfortunately happen, ask the Chinese about a more recent example.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2005-01-20 11:31am

tharkûn wrote:That is not to say that I support everything Israel does, for instance Sharon's decision to stonewall Abu Mazen is point blank idioacy.

Small update that you might like, Sharon went with the Cabinet and did an around face, reaching out to Mazen for peace, after Mazen made a declearation he will send out police forces to stop the Kassam attacks.

But yes, that was idioticy.

salm · Post by **salm** » 2005-01-20 12:11pm

weemadando wrote: Jürgen Möllemann (allegedly) - Germany (parachuting "accident")

no he wasn´t assassinated. murder was ruled out. the only thing the investigation couldn´t find out was if it was suicide or an accident.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2005-01-20 12:21pm

salm wrote:
weemadando wrote: Jürgen Möllemann (allegedly) - Germany (parachuting "accident")
no he wasn´t assassinated. murder was ruled out. the only thing the investigation couldn´t find out was if it was suicide or an accident.

Can proffesional killers make a murder look like a suicide?