No Relief for the Abe Lincoln

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No Relief for the Abe Lincoln

Post by MKSheppard »

Linka
Guest Column: No Relief in Sight for the Lincoln
By Ed Stanton

It has been three weeks since my ship, the USS Abraham Lincoln, arrived off the Sumatran coast to aid the hundreds of thousands of victims of the Dec. 26 tsunami that ravaged their coastline. I’d like to say that this has been a rewarding experience for us, but it has not: Instead, it has been a frustrating and needlessly dangerous exercise made even more difficult by the Indonesian government and a traveling circus of so-called aid workers who have invaded our spaces.

What really irritated me was a scene I witnessed in the Lincoln’s wardroom a few days ago. I went in for breakfast as I usually do, expecting to see the usual crowd of ship’s company officers in khakis and air wing aviators in flight suits, drinking coffee and exchanging rumors about when our ongoing humanitarian mission in Sumatra is going to end.

What I saw instead was a mob of civilians sitting around like they owned the place. They wore various colored vests with logos on the back including Save The Children, World Health Organization and the dreaded baby blue vest of the United Nations. Mixed in with this crowd were a bunch of reporters, cameramen and Indonesian military officers in uniform. They all carried cameras, sunglasses and fanny packs like tourists on their way to Disneyland.

My warship had been transformed into a floating hotel for a bunch of trifling do-gooders overnight.

As I went through the breakfast line, I overheard one of the U.N. strap-hangers, a longhaired guy with a beard, make a sarcastic comment to one of our food servers. He said something along the lines of “Nice china, really makes me feel special,” in reference to the fact that we were eating off of paper plates that day. It was all I could do to keep from jerking him off his feet and choking him, because I knew that the reason we were eating off paper plates was to save dishwashing water so that we would have more water to send ashore and save lives. That plus the fact that he had no business being there in the first place.

My attitude towards these unwanted no-loads grew steadily worse that day as I learned more from one of our junior officers who was assigned to escort a group of them. It turns out that they had come to Indonesia to “assess the damage” from the Dec. 26 tsunami.

Well, they could have turned on any TV in the world and seen that the damage was total devastation. When they got to Sumatra with no plan, no logistics support and no five-star hotels to stay in, they threw themselves on the mercy of the U.S. Navy, which, unfortunately, took them in. I guess our senior brass was hoping for some good PR since this was about the time that the U.N. was calling the United States “stingy” with our relief donations.

As a result of having to host these people, our severely over-tasked SH-60 Seahawk helos, which were carrying tons of food and water every day to the most inaccessible places in and around Banda Aceh, are now used in great part to ferry these “relief workers” from place to place every day and bring them back to their guest bedrooms on the Lincoln at night. Despite their avowed dedication to helping the victims, these relief workers will not spend the night in-country, and have made us their guardians by default.

When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, “We aren’t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.”

In addition to the relief workers, we routinely get tasked with hauling around reporters and various low-level “VIPs,” which further wastes valuable helo lift that could be used to carry supplies. We had to dedicate two helos and a C-2 cargo plane for America-hater Dan Rather and his entourage of door holders and briefcase carriers from CBS News. Another camera crew was from MTV. I doubt if we’ll get any good PR from them, since the cable channel is banned in Muslim countries. We also had to dedicate a helo and crew to fly around the vice mayor of Phoenix, Ariz., one day. Everyone wants in on the action.

As for the Indonesian officers, while their job is apparently to encourage our leaving as soon as possible, all they seem to do in the meantime is smoke cigarettes. They want our money and our help but they don’t want their population to see that Americans are doing far more for them in two weeks than their own government has ever done or will ever do for them.

To add a kick in the face to the USA and the Lincoln, the Indonesian government announced it would not allow us to use their airspace for routine training and flight proficiency operations while we are saving the lives of their people, some of whom are wearing Osama bin Ladin T-shirts as they grab at our food and water. The ship has to steam out into international waters to launch and recover jets, which makes our helos have to fly longer distances and burn more fuel.

What is even worse than trying to help people who totally reject everything we stand for is that our combat readiness has suffered for it.

An aircraft carrier is an instrument of national policy and the big stick she carries is her air wing. An air wing has a set of very demanding skills and they are highly perishable. We train hard every day at sea to conduct actual air strikes, air defense, maritime surveillance, close air support and many other missions – not to mention taking off and landing on a ship at sea.

Our safety regulations state that if a pilot does not get a night carrier landing every seven days, he has to be re-qualified to land on the ship. Today we have pilots who have now been over 25 days without a trap due to being unable to use Indonesian airspace to train. Normally it is when we are at sea that our readiness is at its very peak. Thanks to the Indonesian government, we have to waive our own safety rules just to get our pilots off the deck.

In other words, the longer we stay here helping these people, the more dangerous it gets for us to operate. We have already lost one helicopter, which crashed in Banda Aceh while taking sailors ashore to unload supplies from the C-130s. There were no relief workers on that one.

I’m all for helping the less fortunate, but it is time to give this mission to somebody other than the U.S. Navy. Our ship was supposed to be home on Feb. 3 and now we have no idea how long we will be here. American taxpayers are spending millions per day to keep this ship at sea and getting no training value out of it. As a result, we will come home in a lower state of readiness than when we left due to the lack of flying while supporting the tsunami relief effort.

I hope we get some good PR in the Muslim world out of it. After all, this is Americans saving the lives of Muslims. I have my doubts.

*********************

This ties into what the Diplomidad
is saying about the US Relief effort.
BTW, on the day, January 18, that two UN-leased helicopters finally became active in Sumatra, the US increased its helo flights from 30/day to 80/day; that's for those who see the US effort as superfluous.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Hey look a shitty editorial from an asshole, wow I wish I could find one of those to post!
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

Keevan_Colton wrote:Hey look a shitty editorial from an asshole, wow I wish I could find one of those to post!
wow! instead of adressing the points of the article the selfrightious cockwad's knee jerks and and slams down on the ad hominiem pedal!Folks, that's par for the course for Keevan Conton!
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Post by Chmee »

Strap-hangers, America-haters, the dreaded U.N. and trifling do-gooders .....

With fair and objective reporting like that, this lad will go far at Fox News.
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Post by Joe »

Chmee wrote:Strap-hangers, America-haters, the dreaded U.N. and trifling do-gooders .....

With fair and objective reporting like that, this lad will go far at Fox News.
He's not a reporter, jackass, he's a Naval Officer on the USS Lincoln writing about what's going on there from his perspective. If you don't like what he has to say, that's just too fucking bad. Get a second opinion.
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Post by Coyote »

Did any of you critics bother to read the fucking article? Does it not bother you that all these "concerned people" who care so fucking much for the suffering masses won't even spend the night on the ground with them?

They want to "see the damage" but won't dare get their hands dirty. It's a pack of freeloading wanna-be heroes that waste valuable helicopter time, space, and fuel posing ofr a camera to soothe their feelings while ignoring the fact that they are doingnothing to actually help.

It is a big soiree for them, a little elbow-rubbing cocktail party. The UN worker who whines about eating off of paper plates-- he'd rather have nice clean porcelain even if it means families inland go without clean water.

The Navy guys are sacrificing to do real work. These mutts are just posing for the cameras and engaing in a 'relief effort' that is largey masturbatory. And bitching the whole time if they're not treated like princes.

Or is it because left-wingers shit never stinks?
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Post by Chmee »

Coyote wrote:Did any of you critics bother to read the fucking article? Does it not bother you that all these "concerned people" who care so fucking much for the suffering masses won't even spend the night on the ground with them?

They want to "see the damage" but won't dare get their hands dirty. It's a pack of freeloading wanna-be heroes that waste valuable helicopter time, space, and fuel posing ofr a camera to soothe their feelings while ignoring the fact that they are doingnothing to actually help.

It is a big soiree for them, a little elbow-rubbing cocktail party. The UN worker who whines about eating off of paper plates-- he'd rather have nice clean porcelain even if it means families inland go without clean water.

The Navy guys are sacrificing to do real work. These mutts are just posing for the cameras and engaing in a 'relief effort' that is largey masturbatory. And bitching the whole time if they're not treated like princes.

Or is it because left-wingers shit never stinks?
Yeah, I read the whole thing ... I wish I could give any of it some credibility, because he certainly raises some serious issues that would be worth talking about ... but he's obviously filtering the facts through such a biased lens that I can't really trust *any* of the content as being objectively true. He seems to know how to use the ship's resources more efficiently than the C.O., he seems to know more about how to handle the delicate issue of flying combat aircraft in foreign airspace better than the DoD and Commander in Chief, and he's sure he knows how to handle the most massive global relief operation on the planet better than people who do it for a living ......

In short, he knows it all, and everybody else is an idiot, and I generally trust any recitation of an occurence from that kind of source with about the same level of trust as a six year old looking at a broken window and a baseball who says 'I didn't do it.'
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Post by Stravo »

What's upsrtting is that the UN and these aide organizations get a defacto free pass and free good publicity for just showing up. The US military gets jack and shit. One reason why I believe this article is on the up and up is because of the news coverage we're getting from over there. You don't see as much, and when you do it really seems to be a US Navy operation. Haven't seen too many powder blue helmets out there in news coverage land, or much from the other aide organizations.

It ia not in the interest of many to show just how feeble the UN is in this yet equally not in the interest of many to see just how together the US hands things either.

But will the US get the credit? NO.

Will the media swarm like flies on shit if there's any incident that puts those same guys in a bad light should it happen? YES.

Do we get any coverage showing the muslim hatred towards us or the governments backward ass fundamentalism? I have yet to see any.

This is starting to suck all around.
Last edited by Stravo on 2005-01-22 03:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Chmee wrote:He seems to know how to use the ship's resources more efficiently than the C.O., he seems to know more about how to handle the delicate issue of flying combat aircraft in foreign airspace better than the DoD and Commander in Chief
Did you even read the fucking post?
Our safety regulations state that if a pilot does not get a night carrier landing every seven days, he has to be re-qualified to land on the ship. Today we have pilots who have now been over 25 days without a trap due to being unable to use Indonesian airspace to train.Normally it is when we are at sea that our readiness is at its very peak. Thanks to the Indonesian government, we have to waive our own safety rules just to get our pilots off the deck.
But incase you didn't get it the first time...
Our safety regulations state that if a pilot does not get a night carrier landing every seven days, he has to be re-qualified to land on the ship. Today we have pilots who have now been over 25 days without a trap due to being unable to use Indonesian airspace to train.Normally it is when we are at sea that our readiness is at its very peak. Thanks to the Indonesian government, we have to waive our own safety rules just to get our pilots off the deck.

Know what happens when you push safety rules? People die.
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Post by Chmee »

Apparently with better reading comprehension than you managed with mine, Shep ....

... because he certainly raises some serious issues that would be worth talking about

You don't need to see that in big yellow letters to follow it, do you?
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Post by MKSheppard »

Chmee wrote:... because he certainly raises some serious issues that would be worth talking about
Then what of this, fuckshit.
He seems to know how to use the ship's resources more efficiently than the C.O., he seems to know more about how to handle the delicate issue of flying combat aircraft in foreign airspace better than the DoD and Commander in Chief, and he's sure he knows how to handle the most massive global relief operation on the planet better than people who do it for a living ......
Rules and Regulations exist for a reason, you moron. What happens when
carrier pilots don't get enough training hours? They fly into the deck
or have to eject, wasting valuable aircraft and putting valuable aircrews'
lives at danger.

Also, the United Nations, "which does this for a living", on January 18, reached
a grand total of 2 helicopter flights a day, while the US Military increased their
helo flights from 30 a day to over 80.
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Post by Chmee »

It's a rant ... and while some may consider the rant to be the height of rhetorical skill, for me it's a sure sign that you can't take any of it seriously. I hope it made the author feel better, surely he's doing a tough job, but I'll treat it as what it is, somebody who's tired and frustrated taking a chance to vent.

I found Chief Frie's post on that site about the San Francisco grounding to be considerably more illuminating.
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an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer
.

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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Coyote wrote:Did any of you critics bother to read the fucking article? Does it not bother you that all these "concerned people" who care so fucking much for the suffering masses won't even spend the night on the ground with them?
The fucking helos are going back to the carrier without any aid on them come the end of the day, the aid workers arent causing any loss in delivery of aid there.
They want to "see the damage" but won't dare get their hands dirty. It's a pack of freeloading wanna-be heroes that waste valuable helicopter time, space, and fuel posing ofr a camera to soothe their feelings while ignoring the fact that they are doingnothing to actually help.
Horseshite, people need to assess what each area needs, whether it be food, shelter, water, how much, what other resources will be needed, what essential buildings need rebuilt etc. Assessing the damage is part of what the aid workes on the ground are doing so they can get the ongoing rebuilding effort up and running are doing.
It is a big soiree for them, a little elbow-rubbing cocktail party. The UN worker who whines about eating off of paper plates-- he'd rather have nice clean porcelain even if it means families inland go without clean water.
I'd take the line from the mess with a pinch of salt coming as it is from this spiteful shit head with no supporting evidence.
The Navy guys are sacrificing to do real work. These mutts are just posing for the cameras and engaing in a 'relief effort' that is largey masturbatory. And bitching the whole time if they're not treated like princes.

Or is it because left-wingers shit never stinks?
Fuck off. Theres more to the aid effort than dumping a load of food and water then flying off into the sunset, schools, hospitals, medicine etc all need to be arranged, homes rebuilt. The aid effort includes all this, the aid groups have commented a lot on the fact the US hasnt been playing a co-ordinated game with everyone else from day 1, and that they have a "drop and run" sort of policy going on, not even assuring that the areas get the aid they most need.

Boo-hoo, we've volunteered to aid here and it means we dont get to keep practicing over a soverign nation.
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Post by Coyote »

Chmee, you gripe about the guy not being "objective". Note again-- he is NOT a REPORTER. He is writing an EDITORIAL-- in other words, an opinion piece, where a person is expected to give their... OPINION.

And yes, he most likely does know more about flight deck operations than the President. Becoming President does not mean that all the day-to-day specialized operations of the military is uploaded into a secret chip in the brain.

I am a E-6 (Staff Sergeant) in the US Army. I don't know diddley about what a E-1 Sailor does on a ship. If I ever found myself on a ship, I'd be asking the younger sailor what to do.

These goddamn do-gooder pussies hog the spotlight, strutting around like they're the best thing since sex, and because of all the resources wasted on them, people in need are left to suffer.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."


In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around!

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Post by MKSheppard »

Keevan_Colton wrote:The fucking helos are going back to the carrier without any aid on them come the end of the day, the aid workers arent causing any loss in delivery of aid there.
It costs gas to carry those aid workers home. Gas ain't cheep.

And you forget that they have to be carried back to the relief sites
first thing in the morning, taking up valuable helicopter sorties.

And they could do more work if they actually stayed in the devastated
area 24/7 working there, instead of being shuttled back and forth from
clean sheets, etc.
Horseshite, people need to assess what each area needs, whether it be food, shelter, water, how much, what other resources will be needed, what essential buildings need rebuilt etc. Assessing the damage is part of what the aid workes on the ground are doing so they can get the ongoing rebuilding effort up and running are doing.
:roll: You don't need to assess all this, just keep flying food and water into
the affected regions until land-based links are resotred.
I'd take the line from the mess with a pinch of salt coming as it is from this spiteful shit head with no supporting evidence.
His assessment of the aid workers lines up quite well with what the Diplomidad, a blog run
by career State Department Diplodunks is posting.
Fuck off. Theres more to the aid effort than dumping a load of food and water then flying off into the sunset, schools, hospitals, medicine etc all need to be arranged, homes rebuilt.
All this won't do a damn good if people starve to death while waiting for
their schools to be rebuilt.
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Post by Chmee »

Coyote wrote:Chmee, you gripe about the guy not being "objective". Note again-- he is NOT a REPORTER. He is writing an EDITORIAL-- in other words, an opinion piece, where a person is expected to give their... OPINION.

And yes, he most likely does know more about flight deck operations than the President. Becoming President does not mean that all the day-to-day specialized operations of the military is uploaded into a secret chip in the brain.

I am a E-6 (Staff Sergeant) in the US Army. I don't know diddley about what a E-1 Sailor does on a ship. If I ever found myself on a ship, I'd be asking the younger sailor what to do.

These goddamn do-gooder pussies hog the spotlight, strutting around like they're the best thing since sex, and because of all the resources wasted on them, people in need are left to suffer.
Oi, Coyote, please, I never made the slightest inference that the Prez should know a thing about flight deck operations, I only referenced him on the issue of international relations ... how you conduct the delicate process of inserting massive military firepower into the territory of a not-quite-friendly power, while performing a generous humanitarian task, without creating an international incident. Man ... did I really just say that I thought Bush might know how to do that better than the average sailor (or carpenter or plumber)? Well ... it's his job to know it, anyway.

Yes, it's an opinion piece, and nothing but, with a very clear set of biases driving the opinion. So when he relates 'factual' events in the course of his editorial, I'm sorry, I take 'em with a big grain of salt.
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Mrs. Spade didn't raise any children dippy enough to
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an assistant district attorney, and a stenographer
.

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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Stravo wrote:What's upsrtting is that the UN and these aide organizations get a defacto free pass and free good publicity for just showing up. The US military gets jack and shit. One reason why I believe this article is on the up and up is because of the news coverage we're getting from over there. You don't see as much, and when you do it really seems to be a US Navy operation. Haven't seen too many powder blue helmets out there in news coverage land, or much from the other aide organizations.
They need helmets why? There arent UN peacekeepers, they're aid workers, they tend to wear civies, jackets and so on, not combat gear. They provide doctors, engineers and so on...not soldiers. The other charities also provide expertise in such areas. The aid organisations have been playing ball with one another from day 1, co-ordinating...the US has been dumping and running in most places.
I'll admit that the armed forces there are putting in good work, but they need to work along with all the other people there to get the most good done and this guy is ranting and raving about having fucking peaceniks on his ship. Frankly he can go fuck himself, letting them figure out which village needs medicines urgently and which can manage until tommorow or the next day without a shipment of food helps everyone on the ground.
It ia not in the interest of many to show just how feeble the UN is in this yet equally not in the interest of many to see just how together the US hands things either.

But will the US get the credit? NO.
They're doing a lot, but they're doing it the Bush-USA way, unilaterally and fuck everyone else. This guy is ranting about them co-ordinating with aid organisations. If you're helping people survive then you dont rant and rave about how terrible it is for your effecincy and cost effectiveness.
Will the media swarm like flies on shit if there's any incident that puts those same guys in a bad light should it happen? YES.
It bleeds, it leads.
Do we get any coverage showing the muslim hatred towards us or the governments backward ass fundamentalism? I have yet to see any.

This is starting to suck all around.
And of course bitching about the peaceniks on board and "america haters" really helps matters. The guy is a spiteful little shitstain who has had a nice little editioral (rant) about how much good their doing and how much more they could be doing if it werent for the peaceniks and the fact they've got to sail out to conduct training flights...which has a greater impact than getting experts on the ground to find out who needs what.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

MKSheppard wrote:
Keevan_Colton wrote:The fucking helos are going back to the carrier without any aid on them come the end of the day, the aid workers arent causing any loss in delivery of aid there.
It costs gas to carry those aid workers home. Gas ain't cheep.
Oh, I'm sorry I thought this part of the rant was about how they were taking up space for aid.
And you forget that they have to be carried back to the relief sites
first thing in the morning, taking up valuable helicopter sorties.

And they could do more work if they actually stayed in the devastated
area 24/7 working there, instead of being shuttled back and forth from
clean sheets, etc.
Or they might be coming back, where there's better communication facilities to arrange what has to go where tommorow to keep the maximum number of people alive.
:roll: You don't need to assess all this, just keep flying food and water into the affected regions until land-based links are resotred.
It isnt that simple, you dont just keep dumping supplies in the same places, which village needs the most food right now, which one has enough fresh water so that those supplies can go to another in more need, which need medicine right away.
His assessment of the aid workers lines up quite well with what the Diplomidad, a blog run
by career State Department Diplodunks is posting.
A blog, the internet equivalent of ranting in a pub. What's next a wikipedia article?
All this won't do a damn good if people starve to death while waiting for their schools to be rebuilt.

Or if one village doesnt get enough food and water to keep folk alive and another gets it instead, because no one found out what was needed where and when.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

MKSheppard wrote:Also, the United Nations, "which does this for a living", on January 18, reached a grand total of 2 helicopter flights a day, while the US Military increased their helo flights from 30 a day to over 80.
Bullshit shep, they had two helicopters flying, not 2 flights. How many helos does the US have there? Less than 80 I'd wager you're being dishonest by comparing number of helicopters with number of helicopter flights.
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Post by Coyote »

Keevan_Colton wrote:The fucking helos are going back to the carrier without any aid on them come the end of the day, the aid workers arent causing any loss in delivery of aid there.
And they got out there how? Swimming?
...people need to assess what each area needs, whether it be food, shelter, water, how much, what other resources will be needed, what essential buildings need rebuilt etc. Assessing the damage is part of what the aid workes on the ground are doing so they can get the ongoing rebuilding effort up and running are doing.
How many times do people need to fly over it-- the fucking deputy mayor of Phoenix Arizona? Fucking MTV? What in the hell are they going to see that all the other freeloaders didn't? A flyover by a couple of Combat Engineers working for the UN can tell them all they neeed to know. They come back, file a report: we need bulldozers, backhoes, fill dirt, gabion boxes, etc... how much imagination does it take to think of what they need?

But no-- instead of getting the report and reading it, these shits have to go see for themselves and get caught on camera doing it. It's a fucking PR joke for them.
I'd take the line from the mess with a pinch of salt coming as it is from this spiteful shit head with no supporting evidence.
So in other words, because the writer dared to criticise a wonderful, shit-don't-stink UN worker (after all, we all know how selfless and perfect they are), then he's simply lying.
Fuck off. Theres more to the aid effort than dumping a load of food and water then flying off into the sunset, schools, hospitals, medicine etc all need to be arranged, homes rebuilt. The aid effort includes all this, the aid groups have commented a lot on the fact the US hasnt been playing a co-ordinated game with everyone else from day 1, and that they have a "drop and run" sort of policy going on, not even assuring that the areas get the aid they most need.
Hm, the same people who didn't want us to help at all at first, and then tried to tell us that our help was appreciatee only as long as we obeyed a set time limit? Yes indeed, we really should listen to what they say, since they've shown such professional concern for their citizens all along.

As a result of having to host these people, our severely over-tasked SH-60 Seahawk helos, which were carrying tons of food and water every day to the most inaccessible places in and around Banda Aceh, are now used in great part to ferry these “relief workers” from place to place every day and bring them back to their guest bedrooms on the Lincoln at night.

Despite their avowed dedication to helping the victims, these relief workers will not spend the night in-country, and have made us their guardians by default. [/b]


"Inaccessible places of Bandeh Aceh." Bandeh Aceh has been identified as the most hardest-hit of the regions, and the places are inaccessible except by helicopter. What is the Navy supposed to do? Drop off trucks and bulldozers and graders and let them build a road all the way through the jungle while using the choppers to fly Dan Rather around?

Have you ever built a road in a fucking jungle? I actually have-- Panama, Operation New Horizons, 1996-- it takes a long, hard time and meanwhile you need choppers to fly supplies into the town that the relief effort is headed towards. In Panama the town was Valle Risco and could only be reached by chopper. You can't do that if the chopper is being used to play air-taxi for a bunch of prima donnas.

I'm so sorry the big mean US military has better things to do than hold the hands of whining UN diners, the deputy mayor of Phoenix, and MTV cameramen. But they just get in the way of real workers.
Boo-hoo, we've volunteered to aid here and it means we dont get to keep practicing over a soverign nation.
An aircraft carrier is not a hospital ship. We are doing a big favor for these people by diverting a massive ship with its crew to engage in a mission that they are not meant for. And to top it off we don't have time ot ferry around some Kleenex-spined whiners with thin pinkish drool for blood. Boo Hoo indeed.
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Post by Joe »

Keevan_Colton wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Also, the United Nations, "which does this for a living", on January 18, reached a grand total of 2 helicopter flights a day, while the US Military increased their helo flights from 30 a day to over 80.
Bullshit shep, they had two helicopters flying, not 2 flights. How many helos does the US have there? Less than 80 I'd wager you're being dishonest by comparing number of helicopters with number of helicopter flights.
Oh come on Keevan, you're just being a fucking idiot now.

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AIRCRAFT:
ON STATION
6 C-5 Heavy Lift cargo aircraft
4 C-17 Heavy Lift cargo aircraft
4 C-2 Medium Lift cargo aircraft
21 C-130 Medium Lift cargo aircraft
6 P-3 Reconnaissance aircraft
2 KC-135 Medium Lift/refueling aircraft
51 helicopters are in the region
- 16 helicopters from USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN Carrier Strike Group
- 22 helicopters from USS BONHOMME RICHARD Expeditionary Strike Group
- 3 helicopters from USS DULUTH
- 10 land-based helicopters

I am an American, which means I am jingoistic, spiteful, and not very smart, but I'd wager that the U.S. military is doing a little fucking more than the UN and it's two helicopters are.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Best thing is, we don't need to send the UN diplomats anywhere; we can just
email degraded KH-12 KEYHOLE imagery to the UN HQ in NYC, where they
can use that to plan the relief effort there; instead of sending showboating
idiots out there to suck up valuable helo space.
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Post by Coyote »

Chmee wrote:Yes, it's an opinion piece, and nothing but, with a very clear set of biases driving the opinion. So when he relates 'factual' events in the course of his editorial, I'm sorry, I take 'em with a big grain of salt.
Is it just beyond comprehension that maybe, just maybe, the deputy mayor of Phoenix, MTV camermen, whining UN workers who eat and complain about it (he didn't "feel special") actually are being selfish assholes?

A reporter... a politician.... a crew for a show that caters to a bunch of rock stars... these are not people accustomed to selflessness and giving without thought of themselves.
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In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
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Post by Julhelm »

Keevan_Colton wrote:The fucking helos are going back to the carrier without any aid on them come the end of the day, the aid workers arent causing any loss in delivery of aid there.
No, because hauling around an assload of "aid workers" back and forth means you can carry less food/water/medicines whatever. Why the fuck can't these aidworkers stay inland close to the areas that supposedly need their help?
Horseshite, people need to assess what each area needs, whether it be food, shelter, water, how much, what other resources will be needed, what essential buildings need rebuilt etc.
Yet another reason why they should get their ass off of US Navy warships and set up camp inland where they can work more efficiently.
Assessing the damage is part of what the aid workes on the ground are doing so they can get the ongoing rebuilding effort up and running are doing.
Because they all hate to get their hands dirty.
I'd take the line from the mess with a pinch of salt coming as it is from this spiteful shit head with no supporting evidence.
Ah, the sentiment of a true anti-american. Tell me, do you vote green party too?
Fuck off. Theres more to the aid effort than dumping a load of food and water then flying off into the sunset, schools, hospitals, medicine etc all need to be arranged, homes rebuilt. The aid effort includes all this, the aid groups have commented a lot on the fact the US hasnt been playing a co-ordinated game with everyone else from day 1, and that they have a "drop and run" sort of policy going on, not even assuring that the areas get the aid they most need.
Funny how nothing the US ever does is good enough for you people. The US provides them with the most urgent aid, namely food, water and medicine. But I guess you'd rather all of that was skipped and we let the remaining survivors starve to death en masse while the aid organizations take their time "assessing damage" before they actually get around to doing something useful, right?
Boo-hoo, we've volunteered to aid here and it means we dont get to keep practicing over a soverign nation.
Yeah, and since their primary mission is to keep their fighting power in top trim and that's what the average american taxpayer pays for, that's a damn valid concern. Mind you, the US don't HAVE to help the Indonesians. They could sit the hell back and let the UN handle it, but then you'd be all for bashing them for not helping wouldn't you?
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Post by Joe »

And your insinuation that the U.S. isn't going in there and trying to find out what people need is BS. There have been almost 50 recon missions flown and unlike the UN the US actually has the logistics to make those missions mean something.
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