No Relief for the Abe Lincoln

Julhelm · Post by **Julhelm** » 2005-01-23 08:07am

Wouldn't it be obvious to most people by now, including europeans, that the UN is completely useless and never gets around to doing anything decisive?

As for the EU, given that it's run by frogs and germs should tell most people to stay away from it.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 08:48am

Anything reposted from Slade's board gets the "grain of salt" treatment from me. Everybody over there are far-right whackaloons (though I am more favorably inclined toward things posted by LTC Supatra, since she does have professional military standing, what she says can still be biased by incomplete picture/personal bias problems.

And if you think the Metro Airports Commission just extended one of the runways at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport for shits and giggles, you're an idiot. American carriers like Northwest and United are almost certainly going to buy a handful of A380s to use on the very-long-range, high-density routes that they can fill an A380 to capacity (like MSP-HND or ORD-MUC).

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-01-23 08:50am

MKSheppard wrote:Hmmm

Linka

Suphi wrote:Please excuse you have this wrong. We are not being offered deal reduced Tariff if we buy A380. We are told if we do not buy A380 aircraft then EU will not follow instruction from WTO to reduce unfair tariff. Make this clear Thai Inter does not want A380 and our airports cannot handle this. If we buy A380 we must change runways on our airports at great cost to us. Is blackmail. EU use disaster of tsunami to force us to buy aircraft we do not want.

You know something else? We have UN people here. They make lots of speeches walk around much but do nothing to help repair tsunami damage. Nothing. We ask them when they will do something they say why ask us you side with the enemy when you send troops to Iraq.

So UN openly call America the enemy. Interesting na?

Mm, engrish. Who wrote this, what are their credentials and what is the evidence for the claim?

Oh and from your link:

This is still less than the US tariff on Thai prawns: 97 per cent.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-01-23 08:56am

Iceberg wrote:(though I am more favorably inclined toward things posted by LTC Supatra, since she does have professional military standing, what she says can still be biased by incomplete picture/personal bias problems.

It's now Major General Supatra, and she no has her own personal helicopter, and commands about 11,000 troops in four provinces. Right now she's very
very busy with that Muslim Insurgency in the South.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-01-23 08:58am

[quote="Keevan_Colton"]
Mm, engrish. Who wrote this, what are their credentials and what is the evidence for the claim?

Major General Supatra of the RTA, her AO is the Southern Provinces
of Thailand, where she is involved in suppressing the Moslem insurgency.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 10:07am

Anything reposted from Slade's board gets the "grain of salt" treatment from me. Everybody over there are far-right whackaloons (though I am more favorably inclined toward things posted by LTC Supatra, since she does have professional military standing, what she says can still be biased by incomplete picture/personal bias problems.

And if you think the Metro Airports Commission just extended one of the runways at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport for shits and giggles, you're an idiot. American carriers like Northwest and United are almost certainly going to buy a handful of A380s to use on the very-long-range, high-density routes that they can fill an A380 to capacity (like MSP-HND or ORD-MUC).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2005-01-23 10:25am

Thread Cleansed part Duex

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2005-01-23 10:46am

Reuters wrote: December 17, 2003

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Wednesday his government may review future plans to buy Airbus planes if the European Union continued to treat Thailand's agricultural exports "unfairly".

Thaksin told reporters Thailand's trade with the European Union was at a disadvantage compared with other countries at a comparable level of development, such as Malaysia.

"Malaysia has trade privileges, but Thailand does not. They can't say that we are in a better position. It's not fair," he said. "If they treat us unfairly, we will treat them the same way."

"We are expanding terminals for new aircraft and we plan to buy Airbus planes from the EU. But if the EU is not fair with us, we will also be uncomfortable in buying their planes." Thailand might turn to Boeing instead, he said.

Airbus said in August that Thai Airways International had ordered eight planes after winning approval to spend USD$1.4 billion over the next five years to boost its fleet. Thaksin said that order was not in doubt.

But Thailand is beginning negotiations with the European plane maker on further planes for both national carrier Thai Airways and the Royal Thai Air Force, domestic media say.

Civil-oriented Airbus has a limited range of military products: the A400M military transport, and tanker and VIP versions of its airliners. The Thai air force has been authorized to buy a second VIP plane.

Thaksin's comments followed domestic media reports quoting Commerce Minister Wattana Muangsuk as saying the Thai government should get tough with Airbus.

That would increase pressure on the European Union to lighten its tariffs on Thai shrimp exports at a time of domestic oversupply and low prices, Wattana said.

Future plane purchases from Airbus should take into consideration how accommodating the EU was to shrimp exports from Thailand, the world's biggest frozen shrimp exporter, Wattana said.

He said Thailand had been treated unfairly by the European Union, because Thai shrimps were subject to import tariffs as high as 12 percent, while shrimps from Malaysia, which had "EU Generalized System of Preferences" status, faced only a four percent tariff.

The EGSP is applied to state with a substandart economy and growth.
Shrimps were placed outside the EGSP due to Thailand being the world largest exporter of shrimps.

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-01-23 11:17am

Elfdart, even if there are no UN workers on the carrier at all, this guy was still complaining about the waste of resources for other hangers-on. As mentioned: Dan Rather, MTV, DM of Phoenix... etc.

He's railing about the use of military resources wasted on these useless, non-contributing people-- all of them, regardless of what organization they come from.

And there was a specific complaint about the UN guys not being grateful-- the dish-washing situation, for one. That's not just ungrateful, that's downright selfish. The UN guys also refused to work out a deal to repay the Navy for the resources they have consumed. They are 100% freeloading... and 100% unrepentant about it.

He obviously does have a low opinion of the UN, but is that surprising given the way things are being handled here?

Whoever is freeloading on the carrier there is a lot of them, if they fill up the dining room on a aircraft carrier.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 11:31am

If the guy's ranting, though, he's probably not making too much effort to ensure that his facts are objectively correct. Sounds more to me like one more sailor whining because (a) things aren't going exactly as he'd like and (b) he has to share his workspace with OMG T3H EVAL UN!!!1!1!!!

Come on. Without corroborating evidence that doesn't come from a web board set up so military bastards can whine about how bad the civilians are fucking them, I don't buy this shit.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-01-23 11:34am

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Elfie, there's a concept called credulence. The default assumption is not "everything is a fucking fraud." That is the more complex model, and thus the less prefered one.

But here logic runs counter to liberal preference, so you'll naturally run roughshod over logic.

No, the default is that if someone asserts something it's up to them to provide evidence of it. Anonymous letters don't even pass the first hurdle.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 11:38am

I'm willing to wager, at least, that none of these conversations happened exactly as this guy recalls them and probably that some of them never actually existed in the first place.

Memory's funny like that.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-01-23 12:01pm

Iceberg wrote:I'm willing to wager, at least, that none of these conversations happened exactly as this guy recalls them and probably that some of them never actually existed in the first place.

Memory's funny like that.

That's why this is an editorial and not news, news needs evidence, an editorial can be 100% bullshit.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-01-23 12:16pm

Iceberg wrote:If the guy's ranting, though, he's probably not making too much effort to ensure that his facts are objectively correct. Sounds more to me like one more sailor whining because (a) things aren't going exactly as he'd like and (b) he has to share his workspace with OMG T3H EVAL UN!!!1!1!!

Actually once again, Icey gets it wrong:

When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, “We aren’t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.”

and

Our safety regulations state that if a pilot does not get a night carrier landing every seven days, he has to be re-qualified to land on the ship. Today we have pilots who have now been over 25 days without a trap due to being unable to use Indonesian airspace to train. Normally it is when we are at sea that our readiness is at its very peak. Thanks to the Indonesian government, we have to waive our own safety rules just to get our pilots off the deck.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-01-23 12:19pm

MKSheppard wrote:
When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, ?We aren?t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.?

Shep, here's an analogy, you invite some people around to stay over at your house...they get there and then the next morning you ask them about the rent.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-01-23 12:23pm

Iceberg wrote:Anything reposted from Slade's board gets the "grain of salt" treatment from me. Everybody over there are far-right whackaloons

So you're saying that Stuart and Case, who co-moderate HPCA are
far-right whackaloons, along with such people as David Newton, Mark
Global, who are British Subjects and inhabit the British Isles, along with
Boydfish, a remarkably separatist Canadian who works for the police
in Western Canada, who gets into fights with the other Canadian on the
board,
'

Wijnand vd Beek, a Dutch citizen, Bob Dedmon and Mike Kozolwolski,
who are a bunch of retired Air Force guys who like to talk about the
Rhino and how SAC will be back, are all a bunch of whackaloons
who inhabit the far right side?

I think you're mistaking OCSW for everyone, the Senior Chief
is remarkably blunt and he's earned it by his duty as a river
boat sailor in 'Nam.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 12:25pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Iceberg wrote:If the guy's ranting, though, he's probably not making too much effort to ensure that his facts are objectively correct. Sounds more to me like one more sailor whining because (a) things aren't going exactly as he'd like and (b) he has to share his workspace with OMG T3H EVAL UN!!!1!1!!
Actually once again, Icey gets it wrong

Is your reading comprehension deficient, German Sheppard? I said (granted in another post; maybe it's your short term memory that's the problem) that this is (a) a rant (and thus probably not very factually accurate) and (b) posted on a website devoted to military people bitching about civilians fucking them over. Those two factors both lead me to believe that things are at least not necessarily as reported and probably considerably different.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 12:29pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Anything reposted from Slade's board gets the "grain of salt" treatment from me. Everybody over there are far-right whackaloons
So you're saying that Stuart and Case, who co-moderate HPCA are
far-right whackaloons, along with such people as David Newton, Mark
Global, who are British Subjects and inhabit the British Isles, along with
Boydfish, a remarkably separatist Canadian who works for the police
in Western Canada, who gets into fights with the other Canadian on the
board,

If the shoe fits. Their nationality doesn't change the fact that the opinions they mouth tend to agree rather uncritically with the nationalistic extreme right much of the time.

And I don't give a shit about where OCSW served or when, either.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2005-01-23 12:30pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:Shep, here's an analogy, you invite some people around to stay over at your house...they get there and then the next morning you ask them about the rent.

Actually no. Everyone on a Navy ship has to pay for the mess. It's
considered good manners and courtesy if you come aboard a naval
ship for an extended period of time to pay for the mess. These guys
certainly have been on board for an extended period of time.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2005-01-23 12:36pm

MKSheppard wrote:Actually no. Everyone on a Navy ship has to pay for the mess. It's considered good manners and courtesy if you come aboard a naval ship for an extended period of time to pay for the mess. These guys certainly have been on board for an extended period of time.

Your not getting the point are you?
They've been invited, they werent told they'd be paying and coming after the fact with the bill is asking to get told where to shove it. Also, interestingly enough, it's usually considered good manners and courtesy not to ask a guest to pay for things unless you've made it clear up front. And that's everywhere, not just the navy.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » 2005-01-23 12:40pm

MKSheppard wrote:When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, “We aren’t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.”

Here's the difference between thinking critically, and taking everything at face value:

If you take everything at face value, you read that quote and think 'Man, what a douchebag,' because it sure sounds like a douchebag thing to say to the hosts that are bending over backward to accomodate you.

If you think critically, you take into account the obvious and rather emotional bias of the person providing the quote, and you think 'Hmm, I wonder what the guy really said' ....

As Dan Rather learned, hanging your rep out there by unquestioningly swallowing unsubstantiated information can leave you in an embarassing spot. I prefer thinking critically, even skeptically.

Post by **Coyote** » 2005-01-23 12:45pm

[quote="Iceberg"] Sounds more to me like one more sailor whining because (a) things aren't going exactly as he'd like and (b) he has to share his workspace with OMG T3H EVAL UN!!!1!1!!![quote]

And this is somehow different from OMG T3H EVAL AMERIKKKAN M1L1TARY in what way?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2005-01-23 12:48pm

Keevan_Colton wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:Actually no. Everyone on a Navy ship has to pay for the mess. It's considered good manners and courtesy if you come aboard a naval ship for an extended period of time to pay for the mess. These guys certainly have been on board for an extended period of time.
Your not getting the point are you?
They've been invited, they werent told they'd be paying and coming after the fact with the bill is asking to get told where to shove it. Also, interestingly enough, it's usually considered good manners and courtesy not to ask a guest to pay for things unless you've made it clear up front. And that's everywhere, not just the navy.

Lets use a little analogy here, Mr. Colton. You don't seem to understand what exactly a 'mess hall' is. Okay, let's assume for a minute that you've just been invited by a friend who is in college to come stay at their place for a while. They happen to have a meal plan that they've already paid for for their cafeteria. They go to eat some dinner, and, using their pre-paid meal plan they buy themselves some food. Do you just walk up and stuff your plate full of food, insult the cooks, and walk off without paying? If you do, then, well, you're one rude SOB, and a theif at that.

That's sort of how this is. They have been invited to use the facilities of the ship. Everyone else is paying for food in the mess hall, so why shouldn't they? It's common sense, and how you can even begin to argue against it is beyond my simple comprehension.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2005-01-23 12:50pm

Chmee wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, “We aren’t paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to.”
Here's the difference between thinking critically, and taking everything at face value:

If you take everything at face value, you read that quote and think 'Man, what a douchebag,' because it sure sounds like a douchebag thing to say to the hosts that are bending over backward to accomodate you.

If you think critically, you take into account the obvious and rather emotional bias of the person providing the quote, and you think 'Hmm, I wonder what the guy really said' ....

As Dan Rather learned, hanging your rep out there by unquestioningly swallowing unsubstantiated information can leave you in an embarassing spot. I prefer thinking critically, even skeptically.

There's a difference between thinking critically, and selectively accepting valid comments that support your argument or point of view. I'm thinking that you're falling into the latter.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2005-01-23 12:51pm

Coyote wrote:
Iceberg wrote: Sounds more to me like one more sailor whining because (a) things aren't going exactly as he'd like and (b) he has to share his workspace with OMG T3H EVAL UN!!!1!1!!!
And this is somehow different from OMG T3H EVAL AMERIKKKAN M1L1TARY in what way?

I fail to see how this is in any way relevant. The guy's being an asshole, letting his personal bias rule everything, and because of it, nothing he says can be taken at face value.