What people see in religion

[XPViking]

Well some religions are better than others when it comes to wars

Buddism for example its hard to justife any sort of Violence aginst anyone by that Religion, Hindiusm as well a bit of a toughly(But Hindius seem to be able to get around it)
The problem with Judism, Christianaity and Islam is they right up front say go forth and conquer the land but don't kill anyone - Mr Bean

I suppose this is your expert opinion Mr. Bean?

XPViking

[Mr Bean]

Yes it is I walked by room where people where people where reciving thier Masters in Religion and I took it during High School, I've read the Tora, Koran, and Bible along with some of the Hindiu epics and I've met the Dali Lama and spent time with Zen Buddist Monks, I think that grants me an ability to give an expert opionon compared with the other 90% of the popluation who can acutal spell but have no idea what they are saying

In other words yes its my opion, Though I don't have a degree in it, I'm probably not yanking it out of my rear either now am I?

[Durandal]

Government funding for faith-based charities is unconstitutional, as is issuing vouchers for private/religious school education. It's effectively making tax payers pay for religious indoctrination and the spreading of certain religious beliefs.

If the faith-based charities were mostly, say, Buddhist or Hindu, do you think Shrub would be saying we should fund faith-based charities? Nope. Isn't it a coincidence that most of the faith-based charities happen to be from the same religion as the president, and that he thinks they're being "discriminated against"?

The same goes for schools. If it wasn't Catholic/Christian schooling and instead, say, Wiccan schooling, no one would be pushing to fund it with taxpayer money. The money we waste on those vouchers is better spend improving the public education system. If parents don't want to use it, that's there problem. They have that choice, but when tax time comes along, they still have to contribute to all the programs the government provides, including the ones we don't use. Should only people on Welfare or Medicare pay for those two programs? My own parents sent me to Catholic school, and I had to pay my tuition for the last year ($300/month, if memory serves). Would I want that money back? No. Tax money shouldn't go to funding religious indoctrination camps, like my school, either directly or indirectly.

[XPViking]

In other words yes its my opion, Though I don't have a degree in it, I'm probably not yanking it out of my rear either now am I? - Mr Bean

According to you, you aren't "yanking it out of your ass". Why not elighten me without the broad strokes as you tend to do?

XPViking

[Mr Bean]

The broad strokes are half the discombultaed point!

[XPViking]

What is your point Mr. Bean? Are you saying that Eastern religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc...) are less warlike than, say, Islam, Christianity, or Judaism? Why do I feel that I am a dentist and you are the unwilling, uncooperative patient? Make your point and back it up instead of blabbering and then running away.

By the way, nice jab at people who do take the time to spell. Use a damn dictionary rather than the tired "I can't spell but I know what I'm talking about" excuse.

XPViking

[David]

Why don't you people join my religion?
The Divine Order.
Watch the movies LEXX 1-4 for more information

I will be subjected to Lexx for no one.

[Ladysekhmet]

Master Wong wrote:

I like the way you straddle the fence here. First you point out the biggest reason that religion directly causes conflict, then you complain that people shouldn't blame it for conflict and that it's "merely an excuse". Do you recognize the self-contradiction here?

Ok, you have me there. Certainly religion causes conflict, that much is obvious, though I also see people using it to mask other motives like racism or greed. That was the point I was half-assed trying to make. (I wholeheartedly agree with your essay about Israel and Palestine; my hackles rise whenever I hear 'race' and 'religion' used interchangeably when speaking about judaism.*)

That and and I was a annoyed by name calling and superior attitudes displayed earlier. One of my pet peeves. Anyways, I'll get off my fluffbunny soapbox now

*I hate to edit what I post, but I don't want to offend anyone accidentally. What I was trying to say is that religion and ethnicity are two different animals. Judaism is a religion. Religious beliefs, or lack of them, are open to anyone. If you try to use a holier-than-thou attitude by claiming a certain bloodline, then you are asking for trouble and making you religion look very bad. I think that happens alot in the middle east. I thought I should probably clear up what I was trying to say, before somebody took my clear-as-mud statement above the wrong way and decided to flame me and say I'm a Nazi.

[Ladysekhmet]

The money we waste on those vouchers is better spend improving the public education system.

Nah, the real way to fix the American education system is to slap up a bunch of ten commandments posters and make sure the children chant the mantra "under god" every day. Using this magic spell...er...plan, we can save America's children and still have enough tax money to send them to parochial schools.

Seriously though, I think yours is the best suggestion yet.
How about restricting the vouchers so they can only be used for secular private schools? I know they exist.

[Mr. B]

The 10 commandments are just a rouse(sp?) to put religion back in public schools. The people for the 10 cdmts say it will lessen violence. That gave me a hearty laugh.

Vouchers are bullshit. That money(my money) will end up in the churches coffers and I definitly don't want my tax money going to that shit. I would rather have smoother roads.

[Ladysekhmet]

The 10 commandments are just a rouse(sp?) to put religion back in public schools. The people for the 10 cdmts say it will lessen violence. That gave me a hearty laugh.

Indeed. If a child gets as far as kindergarten not knowing it's wrong to kill people or steal, than he/she has some serious problems no poster can solve. Plus let's not forget in Clockwork Orange how well reading the Bible helped Alex overcome his violent impulses.

[Master of Ossus]

The money we waste on those vouchers is better spend improving the public education system.

Nah, the real way to fix the American education system is to slap up a bunch of ten commandments posters and make sure the children chant the mantra "under god" every day. Using this magic spell...er...plan, we can save America's children and still have enough tax money to send them to parochial schools.

Seriously though, I think yours is the best suggestion yet.
How about restricting the vouchers so they can only be used for secular private schools? I know they exist.

The way to fix the American education system (with which I am unfortunately familiar) is to hire teachers that know what they're doing, not just the first person with a two-year degree that happens to wander by and ask about the "help wanted" signs in the schools.

Teachers are also supposed to know their subjects. In my experience, it is a rarity when they do.

[His Divine Shadow]

Why don't you people join my religion?
The Divine Order.
Watch the movies LEXX 1-4 for more information

I will be subjected to Lexx for no one.

Now if you meant the series LEXX I could understand, but now... YOU INSULT THE MOVIES, ARGh!

[Durandal]

Nah, the real way to fix the American education system is to slap up a bunch of ten commandments posters and make sure the children chant the mantra "under god" every day. Using this magic spell...er...plan, we can save America's children and still have enough tax money to send them to parochial schools.

Yes! Dammit, how did I miss that! After all, all the kids at my Catholic school were such upstanding members of society! We only had a kid threaten to kill me and 4 or 5 expulsions in our last freshman class! Private schooling and religious indoctrination does wonders!

Seriously though, I think yours is the best suggestion yet.
How about restricting the vouchers so they can only be used for secular private schools? I know they exist.

They do, but I don't think they should get funding, personally. Secular private schools are mainly there for the upper crust of the intellectual pie. So, if you're a rich dumbfuck, your parents will send you there. If you're brilliant but poor, the school will give you a scholarship. Either way, the parents of these children have no need for vouchers. Those funds need to go to giving better facilities to public schools in inner cities. Ole Dubya is basically throwing up his hands and saying, "OK, our education system sucks, and I don't care. So, send your kids to religious schools, and we'll pay you for it with money that could be used to improve the state of public education, but since I'm a religious bigot, I'd rather see kids get indoctrinated with my beliefs. Oh did I say that out loud?"

What we need is to completely revamp the teacher education system. You can't learn how to be a teacher. You either are or you aren't. To be a teacher, you have to command a certain amount of respect. A good 90% of the teachers I had did nothing, said nothing and taught nothing to me that made me respect them. They couldn't tell some loudmouth student to sit down and shut up authoritatively, and they just had no authoritative presence. The ones I respected most often didn't have an education degree. Hell, my Theology III teacher got a Walmart Teacher of the Year award, and he didn't have an education degree.

So, in conclusion, an education degree doesn't mean you can teach.

[Gil Hamilton]

The 10 commandments are just a rouse(sp?) to put religion back in public schools. The people for the 10 cdmts say it will lessen violence. That gave me a hearty laugh.

Indeed. If a child gets as far as kindergarten not knowing it's wrong to kill people or steal, than he/she has some serious problems no poster can solve. Plus let's not forget in Clockwork Orange how well reading the Bible helped Alex overcome his violent impulses.

Um... Alex enjoyed reading the Bible because the Old Testament was so violent that he related to it and hated the New Testament. That is hardly and argument for the Bible. (yes, I know you were joking, but I'm just saying that the Bible never helped him control his violence, in fact, it reenforced it)

[XPViking]

What we need is to completely revamp the teacher education system. You can't learn how to be a teacher. You either are or you aren't. To be a teacher, you have to command a certain amount of respect. A good 90% of the teachers I had did nothing, said nothing and taught nothing to me that made me respect them. They couldn't tell some loudmouth student to sit down and shut up authoritatively, and they just had no authoritative presence. The ones I respected most often didn't have an education degree. Hell, my Theology III teacher got a Walmart Teacher of the Year award, and he didn't have an education degree.

So, in conclusion, an education degree doesn't mean you can teach. - Durandal

I'm sorry that you've had some bad experiences with some teachers. Like all professions, there are some remarkable ones and some downright hopeless ones. Most tend to be in the middle.

But your post raises some points that are nothing new. Teaching is as much an art as it is a science and certainly some people have more naturally ability and a more conducive personality for the profession than others. But, according to how the game is currently played, a person can study and then receive an Education degree, thus satisfying the state's (or provincial) criteria of what a teacher should be.

Can improvements be made? Absolutely. Should a revamping be done? If it is needed, why not? I'm only speaking from a Canadian perspective here, so I'm not exactly sure of all the issues surrounding your call for "revamping" the educational system. What proposals do you have, Durandal, to improve things?

XPViking

[Ladysekhmet]

I think the whole educational system here in America needs to be revamped. Here are my suggestions:
1) Teacher quality definately, and teachers should teach only what they're trained in, and be let go if they go senile do a bad job.
2) Make sports seperate from school. No more wasting school time on mandatory pep rallies, no more letting athletes get away with murder just so they can play.
3)Make graduation based on achievement, no more having only an 'A' track and an 'F' track so your school will look good on paper.

And finally, seperate church and state and make it stick. No creation science or any other religious pseudo-history (hey, I gotta stay at least partially on topic!)

[NecronLord]

Not being american I cannot really comment on the last suggestions, but the others are good

[Alyrium Denryle]

Teachers need to put themeselves at the same level with thier students, If they feel that they can trust thier teachers, students will respect them.

[Alyrium Denryle]

If I become a teacher (and I probably will with my future dual doctorates in biology and sociology) These little personel teaching policies help too promote trust, which in tern promotes respect.

1. My students may if they wish use my first name when adressing me, there is no reasonj to elevate myself above them simply by nature of my age( that and it will drive me nuts being called DR. Allen).

2. My room will be a safe zone, nothing may harm my students while inside my class room, violence and put-downs will not be allwed by any stretch of the imagination, this is one of few occasions when i will become stern and reproachful

3. I will not hide my sexual orientation from my students, if i trust them enough to tell them Iam gay it lets them know I can be trusted in return.

4. If the state at this point does not, I will seperate church and state in my classroom.

This does of course assume i will be teaching at a High School or College level.

[Guardsman Bass]

Hello again

Although I do not know if it is really accurate, I argue that the Crusades were the reason that the Western World ended up dominant and the Islamic world got fucked.

Although the Islamic soldiers drove out the Christians, the damage had already been done. The attacks by the Christians and the brutality of them drove much of the civilization of Islam into fundamentalism. This caused great regress. And all of it because in order to drive out the brutal, fundamentalist Christian Crusaders, the Muslims became just as fundamentalist.

On Christendom, the opposite effect occurred. The stories and items brought back by those who returned help initiate the Age of Exploration, which occurred at the same time as the Renaissance. In a sense, the "Civilizedness"(bad english) of the Islamic Civilization bled off into Christendom.

RANT MODE: Ok and to that idiot who said that Christianity was not responsible for the Dark Ages, I would like say to ask them," Then who the hell burned Giordianno Bruno, the monk and Astronomer? Did he burn himself, huh?! And don't give me that shit over Christianity being the source of democracy; the best contribution it ever made towards it was the belief in individuality, and that was because of Protestantism, not Catholicism. The political chaos was initially because of the fall of the Roman Empire, but the Church essentially froze all advancement. Things actually degraded from Roman times. And of course the Church was directly responsible for the false geocentric solar system model staying in power for more than 1600 years, while it did not even accept the true solar system model until the 1990's!



"During the thousand years of the Byzantine Empire, not a single contribution was made to the benefit of Humankind, not a single advancement. The students learned the Dogma from the previous generation, and in turn became the Dogmatic teachers of the next generation."


-Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire(rough approximation of quote)



"God must love stupid people . . . he made so many of you."

-anonymous t-shirt

[Guardsman Bass]

Hello again

Although I do not know if it is really accurate, I argue that the Crusades were the reason that the Western World ended up dominant and the Islamic world got fucked.

Although the Islamic soldiers drove out the Christians, the damage had already been done. The attacks by the Christians and the brutality of them drove much of the civilization of Islam into fundamentalism. This caused great regress. And all of it because in order to drive out the brutal, fundamentalist Christian Crusaders, the Muslims became just as fundamentalist.

On Christendom, the opposite effect occurred. The stories and items brought back by those who returned help initiate the Age of Exploration, which occurred at the same time as the Renaissance. In a sense, the "Civilizedness"(bad english) of the Islamic Civilization bled off into Christendom.

RANT MODE: Ok and to that idiot who said that Christianity was not responsible for the Dark Ages, I would like say to ask them," Then who the hell burned Giordianno Bruno, the monk and Astronomer? Did he burn himself, huh?! And don't give me that shit over Christianity being the source of democracy; the best contribution it ever made towards it was the belief in individuality, and that was because of Protestantism, not Catholicism. The political chaos was initially because of the fall of the Roman Empire, but the Church essentially froze all advancement. Things actually degraded from Roman times. And of course the Church was directly responsible for the false geocentric solar system model staying in power for more than 1600 years, while it did not even accept the true solar system model until the 1990's!



"During the thousand years of the Byzantine Empire, not a single contribution was made to the benefit of Humankind, not a single advancement. The students learned the Dogma from the previous generation, and in turn became the Dogmatic teachers of the next generation."


-Edward Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire(rough approximation of quote)



"God must love stupid people . . . he made so many of you."

-anonymous t-shirt

[Durandal]

I'm sorry that you've had some bad experiences with some teachers. Like all professions, there are some remarkable ones and some downright hopeless ones. Most tend to be in the middle.

My experience has suggested that schools would rather have some poor bastard with a physics degree teach a biology class than hire a new teacher. Administrations seem to think that science is one giant blob, and that every scientist knows every area of science.

But your post raises some points that are nothing new. Teaching is as much an art as it is a science and certainly some people have more naturally ability and a more conducive personality for the profession than others. But, according to how the game is currently played, a person can study and then receive an Education degree, thus satisfying the state's (or provincial) criteria of what a teacher should be.

The state's criteria need to be improved.

Can improvements be made? Absolutely. Should a revamping be done? If it is needed, why not? I'm only speaking from a Canadian perspective here, so I'm not exactly sure of all the issues surrounding your call for "revamping" the educational system. What proposals do you have, Durandal, to improve things?

Like I said before, teachers need to be able to speak effectively in public and have a commanding respect. If the majority of the class likes a teacher and some dickhead student keeps making trouble, the teacher won't have to do anything, because the rest of the class won't put up with it. The biggest problem is respect. Teachers must earn it by teaching in an engaging manner.

As someone who may actually become a teacher (professor, not high school, I don't want to deal with the PTA or any of that shit), I'd teach basically using techniques I've picked up from my favorite teachers. For example, when making a test up, it doesn't hurt to inject a bit of humor into the questions. For example:

Prof. Sorresso's former high school soccer coach, who always benched him and never played him, is being hurtled off a 50m cliff by an unknown assailant. He flies off the cliff at a velocity of 5m/s. How far away from the base of the cliff will he land, neglecting wind resistance? If he leaves an impression approximately 0.5m deep in the ground, approximately how much force did he hit with?

You know, stuff like that. Students appreciate that. Those are just little things though.

[starfury]

[1. My students may if they wish use my first name when adressing me, there is no reasonj to elevate myself above them simply by nature of my age( that and it will drive me nuts being called DR. Allen).]

now so long ago, I had a stupid english teacher who thought he is "so much better" then the students because he is old, in the end I had no respect for the arrogant bastard.

[XPViking]

Durandal, you posed some good solutions. The school system, however, is just like any other bureaucracy in that change usually occurs slowly.

XPViking