A Battlestar Navy.

[Knife]

Why have FTL at all then if all your assets are in one system?

Because they had to have FTL to leave Kobol's system. Maybe they did have more than one. We might never know.

Not necessarily. They could have had "sleeper ships" where people were cryogenically frozen for the centuries it took to travel to the twelve colonies. I remember something about that being mentioned somewhere, but I don't remember if it had to do with the new BSG series or the old one.

In the old one, when they introduced the 'Terra' story arc, they initially found a spaceshuttle like craft with a family aboard in cryo-sleep thing. Harry Hamilton, IIRC.

That said, if they have all their colonies in one system, even if at one time they did have FTL, why would they continue having it? Use it or loose it, type thing.

[StarshipTitanic]

That said, if they have all their colonies in one system, even if at one time they did have FTL, why would they continue having it? Use it or loose it, type thing.

Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.

[Stravo]

Speaking of travel times...seems like FTL wasn't used very often. When the Galactica first jumped I think Tigh said somethingf along the lines that they haven't jumped in 20 years. Yet the very young mechanic states "I always hate this." so she has experienced FTL before. Tigh and others are a;lways reluctant to jump in the miniseries. In "33" they jump very quickly and witout a hitch. They gave us the impression in the miniseries that jumping was dangerous and should be avoided if possible. In 33 there are no 'accidents' despite the fact that they constantly jump for 3 days every 33 minutes.

They haven't really addressed the FTL issue in this new series almost as much as the original series never addressed FTL either.

[Knife]

Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.

Then why the 'long legs', 'meduim legs', and 'short legs' talked about at the Sci fi site? If they're in one system and only need to cross the system in a reasonable time, why have long range-short range FTL. Anything above getting across the system is a waste.

[StarshipTitanic]

Because it's faster? It would take months to cross a system if they really needed to, which is unacceptable.

Then why the 'long legs', 'meduim legs', and 'short legs' talked about at the Sci fi site? If they're in one system and only need to cross the system in a reasonable time, why have long range-short range FTL. Anything above getting across the system is a waste.

I already said they could have more than one system, what more would you like me to say? Moore might bother to throw us some backstory explaining it.

[Stravo]

Poking around the Official site I discovered that the Cylon Basestars completely overmatch the Galactica. Each Basestar carries a wing of 400 Raiders and has a powerful point defense system as well as carries a large nuclear payload.

Sounds to me like the Cylons need only task a few basestars with hunting the colonials. Even one basestar could overwhelm the Galactica's fighter wings.

They also hint that the basestars may even have onboard manufacturing facilities allowing them to build replacement raiders.

Sounds to me like the Cylons have an allaround massive tech edge on the Colonials.

[Alex Moon]

My thoughts on the matter:

We don't know what the distribution of the population is. It's possible that Caprica is the most hospitable of the twelve colonies, and thus is the most populous by a fair margin. If this is the case then FTL drive could be in widespread use, yet during the Cylon attack, the majority of the fighting occurs around Caprica itself, with only a basestar or two assigned to quickly strike the less populous and less heavily defended colonies.

As for the FTL drive, my guess is that the jump officer doesn't just figure out the route, but may also have to figure out various forces that will effect the ship during the jump. Before the Cylon attack, travel would have been limited to well used routes between the colonies, and these jumps could have been preprogramed. All a jump officer would have to do is essentially pick and choose from a list. Once they were going to pass the "red line", then they had to figure things out on the fly. This creates a greater margin of error, and possibly means greater amount of stress is put on the Galactica.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Poking around the Official site I discovered that the Cylon Basestars completely overmatch the Galactica. Each Basestar carries a wing of 400 Raiders and has a powerful point defense system as well as carries a large nuclear payload.

Sounds to me like the Cylons need only task a few basestars with hunting the colonials. Even one basestar could overwhelm the Galactica's fighter wings.

They also hint that the basestars may even have onboard manufacturing facilities allowing them to build replacement raiders.

Sounds to me like the Cylons have an allaround massive tech edge on the Colonials.

It's meant to be a "strategic withdrawal to the rear" kind of story rather than a stand and fight bravely type. The Colonials were losing as soon as they exiled the Cylons and somehoe failed to keep intelligence tabs on them. That doomed them.

Now the Galactica is in no shape for a confrontation or last stand. It has the best part of 50,000 civvies and that's, for all they know, their entire civilisation and species. Earth is a myth, even Adama knows it's bull, but without purpose there's nothing to strive for.

It may turn out that later on, more forces are found or allies similar to other sci-fis where a lonely force has to make local friends, but it's doubtful at least for now.

Don't expect any major battles, this series deals with the emergence of the Cylon threat and the new Cylon menace of human replicas rather than one supership taking on a whole fleet.

[Admiral Valdemar]

IIRC, He3 is only preferred because it is a "clean" reaction. I'm not sure if it is the most energetic.

There are other reactions, but the ones with one reactant being He3 are usually among the most powerful and are clean. The radiation issue does affect the reactor by making materials brittle and, of course, the radiation itself. Still, it's puzzling why they don't have even a D + T reactor onboard. Unless, like us and fossil fuels, they simply based their whole economy on this stuff along with not bothering to finance R&D into fusion and implementing those reactors, thus retarding the energy industry much like today with an overreliance on one type of fuel that seems difficult at best to find.

[taralon]

Well a few ideas pop into mind. Fusion, any sort is still '10 years away' and has been for the better part of 40 years. It'll still probably be '10 years away' 40 years from now if the trend continues. We've had the ability to do fusion reactions since Farnsworth's time but we've yet to hit the 'break even point' where energy output total is greater than the inputs. Then there's the small problem of actually harnessing the energy in a usable form, plus the embrittlement, ionization...etc of the materials used. It could be that fusion simply isn't practical.

As well we do not really know the properties of the 'Tylium'. We know that the Vipers have "reactors" as in the mini Tigh states the Mark IIs are still useable "The reactors are still hot, we just have to pull the shields and..." Maybe Tylium is a material that is non-radioactive (or has an extremely long half life) itself, but breaks down under bombardment neutrons into a very nuclear 'hot' substance. So you take a sub critical fission reactor... pump some Tylium into it, and boom, have a very high power output... but as soon as you stop pumping Tylium your neutron flux reapproaches zero, and the pile begins to cool down. This case would provide a reactor that would be very safe, and yet wouldn't pose a large radiation risk to the crews servicing it.

IIRC, He3 is only preferred because it is a "clean" reaction. I'm not sure if it is the most energetic.

There are other reactions, but the ones with one reactant being He3 are usually among the most powerful and are clean. The radiation issue does affect the reactor by making materials brittle and, of course, the radiation itself. Still, it's puzzling why they don't have even a D + T reactor onboard. Unless, like us and fossil fuels, they simply based their whole economy on this stuff along with not bothering to finance R&D into fusion and implementing those reactors, thus retarding the energy industry much like today with an overreliance on one type of fuel that seems difficult at best to find.

[Beowulf]

Strictly speaking fusion was achievable 50 years ago... It's just nearly impossible to harness it as a useful power source.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Strictly speaking fusion was achievable 50 years ago... It's just nearly impossible to harness it as a useful power source.

True enough, but I'd see such a hurdle as being a relatively minor one to powering an FTL wormhole interstice. If they have H-bombs, then they know of fusion at least.

[SCVN 2812]

Kobold's Last Gleaming pt II establishes that whether by design or minor modification, a Raptor is capable of carrying a large nuke.

Given that if allowed to, the US military would gladly experiment with building nuclear devices capable of being launched from bazookas, I think its safe to say that under ideal conditions Vipers would have the ability to deliver at least very low yield tactical nukes.

Whether or not the Colonials chose to field pocket nukes is another question entirely.

[Admiral Valdemar]

They didn't have chance anyway. The Cylons pretty much nuked anything they came across be they cities or civilian trading vessels. The cluster missile attacks made anything short of escaping by FTL impossible.

[EmperorMing]

...
Given that if allowed to, the US military would gladly experiment with building nuclear devices capable of being launched from bazookas, I think its safe to say that under ideal conditions Vipers would have the ability to deliver at least very low yield tactical nukes.

....

A little off topic, but the 'Davey Crocket' comes to mind.

[RogueIce]

Hell, I figure that's the reason for BSG. Kinda like our own DDGs, CGs, and FFGs. Guided Missile Battlestar or somesuch.

The diagram of the water tanks in "Water" overrules that, unfortunately (I like your idea better). BSG means "Battlestar Group," which could mean many things. In the context of the diagram, it looked like the ship's class number.

Damn it.

Anyone get screencaps of it? I totally missed that and I'm curious, as all I've seen thus far is the BSG 75.

[Coyote]

One reason they might've gotten wrapped up with the idea of an all-Battlestar 9ie, all-carrier) Navy was because the original 1970's series was supposed to have technology about equal to Star Wars.

The same special effects guy, John Dykstra, was instrumental in the making of the series and based the performance of the ships on his Star Wars experience.

[Enigma]

It sounds similar to the state of Hector in Bolo Rising which has the Mk. XXXIII HCT series Bolo running around trying to fight for a rag tag leftover population of humans until it gets consumables replenished at a hidden ammo depot.

Hopefully the Galactica will come across a goldmine, maybe a ship that fled after hearing of the nuke attacks on the colonies and has stores with it. The humans won't last too long if they keep running out of Vipers and ammo or food. Fuel is an issue, but what they use can be found elsewhere (you'd think they'd use He3 or something).

I thought Hector manufactured its consumables? I thought that was the purpose when he drove into an ocean.

[BenRG]

I must say that the differences between the classic series and the new series versions of the Galactica are pretty dramatic.

Consider that, in the original series, about a dozen Battlestars was considered the whole fleet and capable of defending the Twelve Colonies (which all seemed to be in two systems - there were references to 'inner' and 'outer' colonies) as well as holding the numerically superior Cylons at bay. Then compare that to the new Galactica, which still uses projectile weapons and is one of hundreds of similar ships. It is clear that someone somewhere decreed a massive power-down for the good guys.

Regarding total carrier capacity, I wonder if there were heavier fighters, closer to the Tomcat size, compared to the Hornet-like Vipers. I also wonder if there were armed versions of the Raptor (an Intruder to the Prowler-like Raptor). A total air wing of over 100 of all types (including shuttlecraft) is possible.

Of course, the Galactica was carrying a tiny air wing simply for security purposes for the VIPs during the decomissioning, as well as a variety of museum pieces. So, unless someone gets finds a manufacturing ship and starts building ships, we will never find out the answer to these questions.

Finally, I would suggest that the Galactica is the equivalent of carriers that served in the Korean and Vietnam Wars like the Intrepid. The Battlestars like the never seen Atlantia would be the equivalent of the Nimitz-class, larger, more powerful and more technologically sophisticated.

[StarshipTitanic]

Consider that, in the original series, about a dozen Battlestars

That's not true, actually. Some magazine made it up. We never learn how large the Colonial Fleet was.

Regarding total carrier capacity, I wonder if there were heavier fighters, closer to the Tomcat size, compared to the Hornet-like Vipers.

Heavier, and consequentially slower, fighers would probably be a bad idea as the Raiders are extremely small and nimble.

In the original BSG, there were references to smaller ships in the fleet. The battlestars were like the command ships, with very high ranking officers commanding them. In "Take the Celestra" of the original, Commander Kronus talked about commanding a military crusier, not a battlestar. They probably had a whole array of smaller capships to fight the cylons.

Nope, Kronus was a commander of the battlestar Rycon. He said he commanded "600 fighting ships," though. Of course, that could mean a few battlestars with their Viper complements included.

[StarshipTitanic]

Actually, I just checked the episode. He commanded a battlestar which was the flagship of the 6th fleet. In "The Living Legend" Commander Cain commands the battlestar Pegasus, which is the flagship of the 5th fleet. I doubt they would be called fleets if they were only one battlestar and its vipers. I am convinced that the old BSG has smaller ships in its fleet.

Now that I think of it, I remember something else from that episode. There was a scan of a ship that had several laser emplacements on it (it was supposed to be the Celestra, but the outline was totally wrong). It could be a small frigate or corvette-like ship that also escaped.

[Darwin]

Considering that each of the galactica's hangers is larger than a modern supercarrier..

Yeah, the 2 squadrons of Vipers that were on the Galactica can't possibly be a standard combat load. (one of the squadrons was antiques, too)

If it has 40 launch tubes per hangar, I would expect a standard complement to be at LEAST 8 squadrons (160 vipers), and probably a minimum of 250 pilots.

[taralon]

The double pilot thing is also supported by evidence in the Mini. The Galactica had dispatched its last active squadron under the command of the CAG (and with the only working Raptor) shortly before the Cylon attack. The Galactica herself still had a squadron of pilots onboard that Kara led against the Cylon attack on the Galactica in the old Mark IIs.

Also, something to keep in mind about the whole BSG-75 label. We have no real idea what the letters, or even the numbers mean. Is the Galactica a G style Battle Star? Is it the seventy fifth Battle Star, or simply the seventy-fifth hull to come out of that shipyard? In fact, the whole numbering scheme could mean Battle Star, G shipyard, 75 hull ordered. Then again the G label could mean that under the style of the 'old' US navyj (1890-1910ish) that the ship was relegated to 'Gunship' duties. Showing the flag at certain ports, keeping unruly elements that didn't really have a military power in line.

Plus, we have no real idea why the Galactica hadn't used its jump drives in a long time. FTL engines seem to be common, given that a lot of civilian ships have them. Which wouldn't seem to be the case if there was no need of FTL capability. It could be that the reason the Galactica hadn't used them was because she was regulated to training and 'coastal' patrol duties. Show the flag in the system, run search and rescue insystem, customs duties etc. The command staffs reluctance is easily explained away by the fact that they haven't jumped in 20 years. The engines could be out of alignment, no longer working. Prolonged disuse could have caused un-foreseen corosion damage. They may have stopped using FTL when Adama was ordered to upgrade the computer systems and refused. Maybe the high command had decided that jumping with the old systems was too much of a risk. *shrugs* Just because the Galactica hadn't jumped in 20 years doesn't mean that there wasn't a need for FTL travel in the Colonies prior to the attack, just that the Galatica had no need to do so.

Considering that each of the galactica's hangers is larger than a modern supercarrier..

Yeah, the 2 squadrons of Vipers that were on the Galactica can't possibly be a standard combat load. (one of the squadrons was antiques, too)

If it has 40 launch tubes per hangar, I would expect a standard complement to be at LEAST 8 squadrons (160 vipers), and probably a minimum of 250 pilots.

[StarshipTitanic]

I already noted that G means "Group" in one of these threads. The diagram in "Water" said "Battlestar Group 75."

The exterior hull says simply BS 75, though.

[SCVN 2812]

I must say that the differences between the classic series and the new series versions of the Galactica are pretty dramatic.

Consider that, in the original series, about a dozen Battlestars was considered the whole fleet and capable of defending the Twelve Colonies (which all seemed to be in two systems - there were references to 'inner' and 'outer' colonies) as well as holding the numerically superior Cylons at bay. Then compare that to the new Galactica, which still uses projectile weapons and is one of hundreds of similar ships. It is clear that someone somewhere decreed a massive power-down for the good guys.

Fits with the general feeling of desperation that is more prevalent in the show. I admit to being only a very casual viewer of the original but I never really got the feeling that the human race was hanging by a thread and that every battle, every life mattered. Vipers and their pilots frequently fragged and no one misses them.

With the new show, fear is so thick you could cut it with a knife. Its revealed in the eyes of the crew when they bring up their stone poker faces in the face of danger and enhanced by the moody and dark lighting of the show. And its very much there on the dry erase board aboard Colonial One and its dismal 5 figure count of how many members of the human race, plus or minus a cylon plant or three or four, are left.