Your opinion of the Vong

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2005-01-26 09:18pm

Admiral Drason wrote:How does a creature make Magma anyway?

The NJO was plauged with bad writing and silly plot devices. They felt like an episode of ST.

Maybe it's like the ass-bombs the Bugs used in Starship Troopers.

JediMaster415 · Post by **JediMaster415** » 2005-01-26 09:20pm

I liked NJO, and the Vong. NJO showed that there was no longer any character shields using Chewie and, later, Anakin. THe Vong was the tool used to achieve that. (And it all gave me the idea for killing off CHewie, Wedge and a couple others in my fic.)

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2005-01-26 09:44pm

Arrow Mk84 wrote:Had the Vong been done correctly, they would had come in with a fleet of world ships that dwarfed the Death Stars and an escorting armada that would have equalled the Empire at its height. While first presenting a unified front, the NR would had appeared to be doomed; that would be when the Jedi or military intelligence learns about the Vong's internal clan/caste tensions, and turns them upon each other. No bioships, no outrageously fanatical religion, no impotent Jedi or NR.

To be very fair, the NJO authors, except for the bio angle, probably thought they were doing what you said. After all, some world ships were supposed to be as large as the Death Star, which can give such worldships a population in the billions range. As for the armadas, they probably looked at the ultra-minimalistic Bantam books and thought about 30000 ships going head to head with maybe 10000 was a lot - which it is by Bantam standards).

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-01-27 05:49am

They just seem like something out of a Warhammer 40 000 RPG, not something that´s natural in the SW universe.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-01-27 08:31am

Cal Wright wrote:Crown, that's hillarious btw. I even posted in that, and I was even crying 'Klingon' in that post. LoL!!!

Yes, I remember. Good times.

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2005-01-27 10:03am

Praxis wrote: You obviously haven't read the books. It actually explains about the Vong armor and amphistaffs, which produce an energy field (EM? Don't remember exactly) that works like a shield, protecting them from the lightsaber for a few seconds at least.

So this little organic creature can actually absorb the energy of a lightsaber and not burst into flames away while trying to disspate the energy?!?!?!

One wonders why they built these things that are so good at absorbing and dissipating energy if they hadn't encountered lightsabers before.

Steven Snyder · Post by **Steven Snyder** » 2005-01-27 10:08am

The Original Nex wrote:
Praxis wrote:
As for magma...it's not. Plasma > Magma.
They use magma as well as plasma.

How come everytime I hear that their ships used "Magma" for a weapon, all I can think of is Dr. Evil.

Dr. Evil: Our ships are equipped with "Volcano Cannons" that fire red hot "Magma". For our next plan will will breed giant space slugs with fricken laser breams on their foreheads.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-27 10:59am

The Original Nex wrote:
Praxis wrote:
As for magma...it's not. Plasma > Magma.
They use magma as well as plasma.

No. Some of their weapons were NAMED "Magma cannons", but they still shot plasma. Same thing as turbolasers /= lasers.

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2005-01-28 10:29am

Well i'd have to echo a lot of the negative sentiments. The Yuuzhan Vong would have been a much better idea for an entirely original storyline set in an original sci fi universe. Take out the Jedi and replace Coruscant with Earth and maybe i'd be more open minded.

Fucking organic tech....

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-28 10:46am

The thing about the New Jedi Order series was the lack of character shields- you never knew who was going to die next. It really added to the suspense, which is why the NJO series is one of my favorites (the other SW books, you knew the main characters would win, and not die. Only secondary characters died).

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-01-28 11:14am

Praxis wrote:The thing about the New Jedi Order series was the lack of character shields- you never knew who was going to die next. It really added to the suspense, which is why the NJO series is one of my favorites (the other SW books, you knew the main characters would win, and not die. Only secondary characters died).

I noticed that. I knew they could lose. I also knew that, as the story was, "winning" was impossible. I knew there would never really be any emotional payoff, since the flavorless descriptions and soulless characterisations did nothing for me. I also knew there would be no plausible scenario, because the premise as laid by others frankly sucked.

Therefore, the only thing that NJO had to offer was a meat grinder for the last of my childhood.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-01-28 06:38pm

NJO needed what a dismayingly large portion of the EU does (And some of the movies, too

), an editor with the balls to say 'This sucks, go do it again, we're not diluting our universe with that,' when someone hands in a pile of table scrapings in a three-ring binder. UNIVERSE CONTROL, dammit.

Gustav32Vasa · Post by **Gustav32Vasa** » 2005-01-28 07:21pm

White Haven wrote:NJO needed what a dismayingly large portion of the EU does (And some of the movies, too ), an editor with the balls to say 'This sucks, go do it again, we're not diluting our universe with that,' when someone hands in a pile of table scrapings in a three-ring binder. UNIVERSE CONTROL, dammit.

The trouble is not everyone agrees on what garbage is.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2005-01-28 07:29pm

Praxis wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:
Praxis wrote:
As for magma...it's not. Plasma > Magma.
They use magma as well as plasma.
No. Some of their weapons were NAMED "Magma cannons", but they still shot plasma. Same thing as turbolasers /= lasers.

I seem to remember "molten rock" being used quite a bit.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-28 08:02pm

As a series, the NJO had up's and downs. The Vong from the begining, were ok. In fact, they were a breath of fresh air from the various 'Imperial Warlords'. As silly as bio tech is, the Vong as characters were 'new' and therefore better than the weekly Imperial warlord.

I agree that the 'organic' crap was.....well crap. That has always been a weak point in the series. I know it was there so that the 'normal' tactics of the NR would be by passed. The way the Basal's 'yanked' shields and then the ship got a facefull of plasma did work for me.

The problem with the series is that they just kept going with the 'organic' tech the further you go into the series.

Also, as different as the Vong were, at the begining. The further into the series you went, the more they became Klingons. Really. It was pathetic.

In universe, the problem with the Vong stemmed from over biotech wanking, over 'warrior-ized' culture, and a totally anti climatic ending.

Out of universe problems; same type of writters, writing something different. Eventually they fell into their old habbits.

Honestly, the hard look at the Jedi Order was fun. The bullshit in between was tedious. The pacifism was horrible. The never ending 'road' Jacen walked down was nauseasing. I liked the unifying force/ living force thing but damn, you don't need to use eight books to figure it out.

The death of the NR was long over due. Star by Star was a good book, if for nothing else, then to destroy the wank fest of the last two decades of the NR. Its gone, thank the Force.

And once again, non military folk should not write military fiction. Or if so, fucking research it. Thank god for Allaston, by the time I got to his bit, I was ready to call it quites on the damn thing. He gave me the where with all to continue.

BTW, anyone out there who hasn't read the series yet. Skip Dark Journey's and think about skipping Traitor.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2005-01-28 08:11pm

Knife wrote:...and think about skipping Traitor.

DJ I can understand. But Traitor? I thought it was one of the best of the NJO, forcing the fans, just like Luke in TESB to unlearn all of their prior views on the Jedi Order (Alright, it pissed off some die-hard fans I know, but I thought it was a great move). Plus it has my favorite Nom Anor quote:

“Does the warmaster truly wish a disquisition upon the New Republic’s perverse system of government? It has to do with a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whomever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens."

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2005-01-28 08:22pm

They're okay. Their Force-invisibility was the only thing that could possibly turn a group of people into a credible threat to Jedi, and the reasons for it as revealed in the final book of the series are interesting. Their bio-tech sucks, but their general religious fanaticism is kind of cool.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2005-01-28 09:31pm

Praxis wrote:
The Original Nex wrote:
Praxis wrote:
As for magma...it's not. Plasma > Magma.
They use magma as well as plasma.
No. Some of their weapons were NAMED "Magma cannons", but they still shot plasma. Same thing as turbolasers /= lasers.

I seem to recall the term "molten rock" used on more than one occassion....

EDIT: Seems White_Rabbit picked up on that too.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-28 11:06pm

JME2 wrote:
DJ I can understand. But Traitor? I thought it was one of the best of the NJO, forcing the fans, just like Luke in TESB to unlearn all of their prior views on the Jedi Order (Alright, it pissed off some die-hard fans I know, but I thought it was a great move). Plus it has my favorite Nom Anor quote:

“Does the warmaster truly wish a disquisition upon the New Republic’s perverse system of government? It has to do with a bizarre concept called democracy, in which ruling power is given to whomever is most skillful at directing the herd instincts of the largest masses of their most ignorant citizens."

The plot was really just a subplot that was streched out to an entire book. The only really interesting part about it, I thought, was Ganner and his death. Vengere's thoughts and idea's about the Force were interesting too, I saw it as the EU trying to strike down 20 years of EU and get back on track of the movies (especially the Prequels).

Other than that, it was rather boring.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2005-01-28 11:20pm

Molten rock was commonly used to describe corralskipper guns. Not sure about Vong worldships.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-29 01:38am

Eleas wrote:
Praxis wrote:The thing about the New Jedi Order series was the lack of character shields- you never knew who was going to die next. It really added to the suspense, which is why the NJO series is one of my favorites (the other SW books, you knew the main characters would win, and not die. Only secondary characters died).
I noticed that. I knew they could lose. I also knew that, as the story was, "winning" was impossible. I knew there would never really be any emotional payoff, since the flavorless descriptions and soulless characterisations did nothing for me. I also knew there would be no plausible scenario, because the premise as laid by others frankly sucked.

Therefore, the only thing that NJO had to offer was a meat grinder for the last of my childhood.

Just out of curiousity, did you actually finish it? Because the Unifying Force was on eof the highest points in the series (welll written, far better than a number of the books like the terrible Dark Journey, Traitor, three Force Heretic books, Vector Prime, Balance Point, etc). The Vong rebellion and Nom Anor and all really worked out well, and the scenario was plausible.

And Luke went rambo on the Vong

Shimrra barely even saw him coming...

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-01-29 01:41am

Matt Huang wrote:Molten rock was commonly used to describe corralskipper guns. Not sure about Vong worldships.

Heat rock enough and you get plasma. It was stated to have been made from rock (the coralskippers muched on asteroids to use for the weapons), but not necessarily to still be in the form of rock when fired.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-01-29 01:42am

TFP was better than TUF. Sekot got REALLY boring after a bit.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2005-01-29 09:35am

Praxis wrote: Just out of curiousity, did you actually finish it? Because the Unifying Force was on eof the highest points in the series (welll written, far better than a number of the books like the terrible Dark Journey, Traitor, three Force Heretic books, Vector Prime, Balance Point, etc). The Vong rebellion and Nom Anor and all really worked out well, and the scenario was plausible.

And Luke went rambo on the Vong Shimrra barely even saw him coming...

No, I don't think I ever reached what is considered to be the "good" books. I came to the point where Anakin died an ignoble, thoroughly unworthy and above all boring death, cutting one of the last storylines I was interested in into so much chaff. Then I put the books down, and asked myself what the point was.

Then I realized I could be reading fanfic instead, and have more fun. So I did.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2005-01-29 09:55am

JME2 wrote:
Knife wrote:...and think about skipping Traitor.
DJ I can understand. But Traitor? I thought it was one of the best of the NJO, forcing the fans, just like Luke in TESB to unlearn all of their prior views on the Jedi Order (Alright, it pissed off some die-hard fans I know, but I thought it was a great move).

My main gripe is even after this later Jacen books don't reflect said growth. It happens through out the NJO. 'Ruin' has Jacen deciding not to wonder about the force anymore, Yet 'Jedo Eclipse' has him pissing and moaning again. 'Balance Point' has him find as the title suggest Balance yet in Star-by-Star he back to pissing and moaning again. In Traitor he becomes a completely new style of Jedi and in the next books his characterisation doesn't reflect that at all.