Pope had a 'tranquil night' in hospital

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2005-02-03 07:47am

CNN wrote:ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Pope John Paul II had a "tranquil night" and he is recovering from a respiratory infection that hospitalized him Tuesday night, according to a Vatican statement issued Thursday.

"The acute tracheal difficulty is in a phase of regression," while his condition was "registering a positive evolution," Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls.

Although he has not experienced any more spasms of his larynx -- which is what caused doctors to rush the pontiff to Rome's Gemelli Polyclinic Tuesday night -- it was unclear how long he would remained hospitalized.

"The Holy Father spent a night of tranquil rest," Navarro-Valls said.

"The doctors will decide how many days he will stay in hospital," Navarro-Valls said.

Vatican sources said the pope is expected to delivery his regular Sunday address this weekend from the window of the hospital.

A source in the Vatican told CNN the pope's meeting with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is still scheduled for next week and they hope he will be able to keep the appointment.

The pope, who suffers from a number of chronic ailments, including Parkinson's disease, last appeared in public Sunday. His voice was hoarse, but he appeared to be in good spirits.

His health has been steady in recent months, and he looked in better health than during the summer and fall of 2003, when his trips to Croatia and Slovakia appeared to take a heavy toll on the frail pontiff.

The last time the pope canceled an event was September 2003, when he had an intestinal ailment.

The pope has undergone nine operations -- including a hip replacement -- and survived an assassination attempt.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2005-02-03 08:04am

You know, however much I disagree with him and the Catholic Church as a whole, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-02-03 08:11am

HemlockGrey wrote:You know, however much I disagree with him and the Catholic Church as a whole, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy.

How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.
I'm not wringing my hands in grief or anything, but jeez, poor old bastard.

Hehe, somehow I suspect he's recieving care beyond what most of could ever recieve, though.

Melchior · Post by **Melchior** » 2005-02-03 09:08am

Frank Hipper wrote:
HemlockGrey wrote:You know, however much I disagree with him and the Catholic Church as a whole, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy.
How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.
I'm not wringing my hands in grief or anything, but jeez, poor old bastard.

Hehe, somehow I suspect he's recieving care beyond what most of could ever recieve, though.

The old man has helped in spreading AIDS in Africa and has spent most of his life destroying the state/church separation in Italy, which wasn't exactly perfect even before.
I am not cheering for his death, but i would not feel sorry for him.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-02-03 10:20am

Melchior wrote:The old man has helped in spreading AIDS in Africa and has spent most of his life destroying the state/church separation in Italy, which wasn't exactly perfect even before.
I am not cheering for his death, but i would not feel sorry for him.

I'm inclined to agree.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-03 10:24am

HemlockGrey wrote:You know, however much I disagree with him and the Catholic Church as a whole, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy.

I can't. He's an asshole.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-03 10:26am

Frank Hipper wrote:How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.

Don't give me that bullshit. Did you feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer when he was violently sodomized with a broomstick until he died? If you think someone was enough of an asshole, you are not obligated to feel sorry for him when he suffers; until I meet someone who felt broken-up about Jeffrey Dahmer's death, I can say that I have not met anyone who disagrees with that statement.

Ubiquitous · Post by **Ubiquitous** » 2005-02-03 10:33am

HemlockGrey wrote:You know, however much I disagree with him and the Catholic Church as a whole, I can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy.

Indeed. My friend is a Pole and is very upset by what is happening. He is a hero to them.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2005-02-03 12:17pm

The only difference between the Pope and other hateful bigoted people is that the Pope hides behind religion. It's always the grand excuse that they are feeling that way "for your own good". It's an ostentatious display of hatred cloaked in a holograph of love.

Sure he believes he is being caring and loving. That makes it worse because he's delusional as well as cruel in practice, and people that WILLINGLY hide their head in the sand regarding religion and refuse to examine it critically, are not poor ignorant souls. They are guilty of deliberately refusing to be educated and see the problems with their beliefs.

Do I like to see any human suffer? No. But I won't cry any tears for the man when he's gone. I just wish he was the last.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-02-03 12:34pm

What's that? They don't believe in the healing power of prayer enough to just stay at the Vatican and hold a pray-in?

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2005-02-03 12:43pm

What's that? They don't believe in the healing power of prayer enough to just stay at the Vatican and hold a pray-in?

The Catholic Church is not currently a faith healer sect. That little piece of Ludditeism seems mostly the domain of Protestant Splinter Sects in the Western and Mid west United States. Has you can guess, the more isolated the better.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-02-03 01:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.
Don't give me that bullshit. Did you feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer when he was violently sodomized with a broomstick until he died?

Thankyou very much Mike. I had no idea who this 'Jeffrey Dahmer' person was, and instead of wasting your time and asking, I googeled it and got a play by play of his greatest hits; I don't think that I'll be able to sleep tonight, and I think I've just lost my innocence ... I want my innocence back damit!

For all of you other people who don't know who Jeffrey Dahmer is; he was a serial killer who did some extremely fucked up things, that's all you need to know in order to understand what Mike is saying. Don't Google it, trust me.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-02-03 02:04pm

You know, when I read "tranquil night" I thought it meant the pope had died. Is it just me?

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2005-02-03 02:48pm

Shinova wrote:You know, when I read "tranquil night" I thought it meant the pope had died. Is it just me?

Nope I also got my hopes up.

But then again his successor will in all likelyhood be just as narrowminded and full of shit.

Why is it that the damned churtch will not condone the only thing that protects against HIV?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-02-03 03:36pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.
Don't give me that bullshit. Did you feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer when he was violently sodomized with a broomstick until he died? If you think someone was enough of an asshole, you are not obligated to feel sorry for him when he suffers; until I meet someone who felt broken-up about Jeffrey Dahmer's death, I can say that I have not met anyone who disagrees with that statement.

That's an incredibly flawed analogy, on more than one level.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-03 03:51pm

Frank Hipper wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:
Frank Hipper wrote:How can you not feel sorry for an elderly, sick man? I know I do.
Don't give me that bullshit. Did you feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer when he was violently sodomized with a broomstick until he died? If you think someone was enough of an asshole, you are not obligated to feel sorry for him when he suffers; until I meet someone who felt broken-up about Jeffrey Dahmer's death, I can say that I have not met anyone who disagrees with that statement.
That's an incredibly flawed analogy, on more than one level.

Show how it is flawed then. You made the statement that you must feel sympathy for a dying old man. I say it depends on how much of an asshole you think he is, and I give an example of a case where no one would disagree that the evil of the individual pretty much nullifies any need to feel sympathy. How is that an "incredibly flawed analogy"? Hell, it's not even an analogy at all; it's a supporting example for my counter-claim.

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2005-02-03 04:21pm

Why is it that the damned churtch will not condone the only thing that protects against HIV?

Actually they DO condone the only thing that protects against hiv. Abstinence.

Condoms are not 100% effective, but they are the best alternative is you ARE going to have sex.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2005-02-03 04:28pm

Darth Wong wrote:Show how it is flawed then.

Jeffrey Dahmer was a predator that killed with his own hands.
Jeffrey Dahmer cannibalised his victims.
Murder was the means to his ends-providing himself with compliant sex partners who would never leave him.
Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison.
vs
The Pope promotes policies that spread ignorance of health risks that result in death.
The Pope promotes misogynistic ideals.
The Pope's "victims" suffer as a result of their own actions and beliefs.
The Pope is feeble and ill.

You made the statement that you must feel sympathy for a dying old man.

I made no demand that you must do anything, I asked how can you not feel sorry for him.

I say it depends on how much of an asshole you think he is, and I give an example of a case where no one would disagree that the evil of the individual pretty much nullifies any need to feel sympathy. How is that an "incredibly flawed analogy"? Hell, it's not even an analogy at all; it's a supporting example for my counter-claim.

Giving an example in counter to what I said demands that comparison be made between the two. If comparing the two examples reveals little relationship, how is that not an analogy, and how is it not flawed?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-02-03 04:43pm

Aside from the entire "atheist VS believers"-debate is this "the pope is an asshole" only based on the catholic churchs stand on condomes?

Because i fail to see how people, who don´t follow the church when it comes to fucking around (church: don´t) are going to follow the church when it comes to condomes (church: don´t).

Justforfun000 · Post by **Justforfun000** » 2005-02-03 04:46pm

Jeffrey Dahmer was a predator that killed with his own hands.

One could argue the Pope killed with his own mouth.

I made no demand that you must do anything, I asked how can you not feel sorry for him.

I feel sorry for him in the way of "You poor deluded bastard, after a lifetime of promoting foolish beliefs and causing a mountain of sorrow to countless millions, you will soon be dead and discover for yourself if you wake up in heaven or simply wink out of existence".

I get no enjoyment out of his suffering or soon to be passing, but I don't particularly feel devastated either.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2005-02-03 04:55pm

Dahmers dead? When did this happen?

Anyways, I respect the Pope. The guy not only survived four bullets, but actually visited his would be assassin in prison and forgave him. That justs shows class.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2005-02-03 05:00pm

If a "believer" is wrong about god and heaven, he´ll never notice.

If the atheist is wrong ... . Well, the look on such a persons face in the afterlife should be priceless.

Considering all the evil, that happens in this world i truly wish/hope, that there is a "higher" authority. Not that i think this to be the christian or another god of an established religion, but somebody has to be there to make sure justice happens. I could live with a just god. I´m not so sure, if i could live with a god, who forgives.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-02-03 05:49pm

FTeik wrote:If a "believer" is wrong about god and heaven, he´ll never notice.

If the atheist is wrong ... . Well, the look on such a persons face in the afterlife should be priceless.

And if people who believe in ghosts are wrong, they'll never notice. But if the skeptics are wrong, then they'll be screwed 'cause Slimer comes after them first!

Notice a pattern here? Perhaps we should believe in every idiotic idea that ignorant primitives dreamt up thousands of years ago.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2005-02-03 06:16pm

FTeik wrote:If a "believer" is wrong about god and heaven, he´ll never notice.

If the atheist is wrong ... . Well, the look on such a persons face in the afterlife should be priceless.

Pascal's Wager is one of the oldest arguements out there. This also means it's been refuted for a looong time.

Considering all the evil, that happens in this world i truly wish/hope, that there is a "higher" authority.

Considering what a sort of world we live in, any sort of "higher" authority is not one that I would care to give respect to.

Not that i think this to be the christian or another god of an established religion, but somebody has to be there to make sure justice happens. I could live with a just god. I´m not so sure, if i could live with a god, who forgives.

If justice is being served, tell me, how was the tsunami justified?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2005-02-03 09:07pm

Faram wrote:
Shinova wrote:You know, when I read "tranquil night" I thought it meant the pope had died. Is it just me?
Nope I also got my hopes up.

But then again his successor will in all likelyhood be just as narrowminded and full of shit.

Why is it that the damned churtch will not condone the only thing that protects against HIV?

I thought so too. I hope that he'll be able to live a little longer, though, because I've heard that the cardinal who is in the forefront to be a successor is incredibly hardline, far more conservative than the current Pope or really most Catholics. Of course he might not be picked, but still, it's worrysome to me and I'm not even Catholic.