D.C. Council Proposes Banning Violent, Sexual Video Game Sales to Minors
Thursday February 03, 2005 12:42pm
Washington (AP) - All but one member of the D.C. Council is supporting a ban on selling or renting violent and sexually explicit video and computer games to minors.
Eleven council members have signed on to the bill by Ward Four Council member Adrian Fenty. Kathy Patterson, who represents Ward Three, is the only exception.
Patterson says she has some First Amendment concerns about the bill. The American Civil Liberties Union also says the ban might have some constitutional problems.
But Fenty, who is introducing the bill Thursday, says he thinks the bill is on solid legal ground. He says it's tied in to the safety of children.
Some groups are pushing the ban as a way to reduce youth violence in the city. But Patterson says it will take more than just a ban.
Now a few q's
Where was the DC council in the 1990s when DC schools were in such shit shape that we had no books and no pencils and the teachers didn't want to teach.
Where was the DC council when Mayor " I think i am but i am not doing shit" Anthony Williams was screwing DC over by building a needless baseball stadium when we have the RFK, or when we build a billion dollar convention center when we dont use the one we built in 1982.
Where is the DC council when we need affordable homes, schools, rec centers, hospitals and libraries built.
Now they want to do this useless ass ban that will do nothing but cause people to go out to VA or MD and get games. Ohh we have that useless Handgun ban that does nothing but disarm normal citizens and let ganstas do whatever they fucking want.
You wanna set an example Garak....Use him, Let him Die!!
D.C. Council Proposes Banning Violent, Sexual Video Game Sales to Minors
Thursday February 03, 2005 12:42pm
Washington (AP) - All but one member of the D.C. Council is supporting a ban on selling or renting violent and sexually explicit video and computer games to minors.
Call me stupid,but violent and sexually explicit game sold to kids,don't tell me they can't see the Mature rating on the freaking box.
Jerry Orbach 1935 2004 Admiral Valdemar~You know you've fucked up when Wacky Races has more realistic looking vehicles than your own.
Exactly. Parents need to start taking responsibility is what needs to happen. That's why they put the ratings on the box or even have the rating system to begin with. I really wish people would quit putting more and more parental responsibility on the government.
"I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice."
-Denis Leary Demolition Man (1993)
Why would this be such a bad thing? Around 95% of places already don't sell or rent M-Rated games to minors. It makes those "concerned" politicians happy for a while, without nothing really changing.
It seems a little hypocritical for the games industry to say "we only sell M-rated to people over 18" while at the same time fighting against a law that makes illegal to do anything else but that.
"A mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open."
-Sir James Dewar
The debate on whether these games are harmful to children, whether it's parents or the governement should decide if kids should get to play these games... none of that matters in the least.
why? Because regardless of any restriction on minors purchasing these games, or any parental totalitarianism, kids are still going to get them.
you can't stop them. it's impossible. stop wasting time with this.
I am not a big fan of censoring violent or sexual material, but I don't see the big problem with prohibiting sale to minors. Adults can still buy it; if a parent feels that it's OK for his or her kid to be playing these games, he can buy it himself.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Seggybop wrote:Anything like this is an idiotic idea.
The debate on whether these games are harmful to children, whether it's parents or the governement should decide if kids should get to play these games... none of that matters in the least.
why? Because regardless of any restriction on minors purchasing these games, or any parental totalitarianism, kids are still going to get them.
So it is "idiotic" to raise the difficulty at all? This does not even remotely follow logically from the facts at hand. Do you feel it is "idiotic" to ban pornography, alcohol, and cigarette sales to minors as well?
you can't stop them. it's impossible. stop wasting time with this.
You actually can stop most of them. Yes, there are kids who can evade things like that. But it's hardly all of them.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
It would be useless in that it would be next to impossible to enforce (somewhat like cohabitation and sodomey laws a lot of states have on the books). Paternalistic laws are always bad. In this case it basically means the government is given one more responsibility it shouldn't have. Hey, the government is more than willing to take up any new power or responsibility people give to them, but why should we give it to them?
"I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice."
-Denis Leary Demolition Man (1993)
CX wrote:It would be useless in that it would be next to impossible to enforce (somewhat like cohabitation and sodomey laws a lot of states have on the books).
Nonsense; all you have to do is levy massive fines against people who sell videogames to minors, and then do the occasional sting operation. Fear will keep the locals in line.
Paternalistic laws are always bad.
Bullshit.
In this case it basically means the government is given one more responsibility it shouldn't have. Hey, the government is more than willing to take up any new power or responsibility people give to them, but why should we give it to them?
Yet again, you do not explain why this is bad; you simply rephrase "paternalistic" as "giving the government responsibility" and assume that this is a bad thing.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
I don't see anything morally or legally offensive about the ban, but there is something off about the implied claim that banning violent video games will reduce youth violence in DC. Juvenile violent crime in DC is half what it was in 1995 (adjusted for population growth), and the slight increase since 2001 predates GTA3. I can understand addressing the disaffected loner in predominantly white neighborhoods who's lost himself in a fantasy world, but I don't think a Back youth in DC needs San Andreas to source gang related behavior.
To the hustlas, killers, murderers, drug dealers even the strippers...Jesus walks....
To the victims of Welfare for we living in hell here hell yeah...Jesus walks...
Now hear ye hear ye want to see Thee more clearly
I know he hear me when my feet get weary
Cuz we're the almost nearly extinct
We rappers are role models we rap we don't think
I ain't here to argue about his facial features
Or here to convert atheists into believers
I'm just trying to say the way school need teachers
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way yall need Jesus....
The justification may be questionable, but it is at least a step back from the raging hypocrisy of banning the sale of XXX or even softcore nudie magazines to minors while giving them free rein to play any hyper-violent or sexual videogame they like.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Darth Wong wrote:
Nonsense; all you have to do is levy massive fines against people who sell videogames to minors, and then do the occasional sting operation. Fear will keep the locals in line.
Yes, nothing like keeping the poor minions in line with what we think is right for them.
Paternalistic laws are always bad.
Bullshit.
Well, this one isn't worth starting an arguement with an admin over.
Yet again, you do not explain why this is bad; you simply rephrase "paternalistic" as "giving the government responsibility" and assume that this is a bad thing.
I guess it's as plain as day to me as just being a given that people should be able to make their own choices so long as it does not effect the liberty and freedoms of others. Why would I want the government to raise my kids for me? That is what this law implies.
"I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice."
-Denis Leary Demolition Man (1993)
Darth Wong wrote:The justification may be questionable, but it is at least a step back from the raging hypocrisy of banning the sale of XXX or even softcore nudie magazines to minors while giving them free rein to play any hyper-violent or sexual videogame they like.
I can see and understand this. I don't know, I'd rather it be just a common sense law that you don't sell stuff made for adults to kids.
"I'm the enemy because I like to think. I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice."
-Denis Leary Demolition Man (1993)
CX wrote:Why would I want the government to raise my kids for me? That is what this law implies.
No, it doesn't. That is nothing but a rhetorical caricature. It helps you raise your kids (or it would, if you had any; I have yet to meet an actual parent who feels the way you do) by keeping the decision about what videogames they should play in your hands.
I can see and understand this. I don't know, I'd rather it be just a common sense law that you don't sell stuff made for adults to kids.
Since common sense is about as common as unicorns, basing social policy on the presumed existence of "common sense law" rather than real, enforced law is hopelessly naive.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
The UK has been discussing such problems with minors before. The likes of GTA etc. have meant parents are now aware that we aren't playing Pong and Frogger anymore. These games simulate reality to a high degree and are worth more than the movie industry now. With that, the BBFC at least has lent their certificate code to most games to go with the ELSPA one too. A clear "15" or "18" sticker will be on the adult games like on any DVD or VHS.
The problem, however, is stores that don't give a shit and sell to kids anyway, thus sparking off this problem in the first place like sale of alcohol to minors.
Because this is DC unless Virginnia and Maryland follow suite its a pointless law.
Most if not all of the major shopping areas are two three miles away from their equivlant or similiar in another state
"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
I was at a GameStop in the mall yesterday, and a kid no more then 12 years-old approached the counter. He asked the clerk for a copy of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas which was kept under lock and key in a cabinet behind the counter. The sales clerk immediatly asked the boy if he had an adult with him. When the boy prodcued a parent, the clerk then asked the adult if the boy had permission to buy the game, and explained that it was rated M for mature and contained sex and violence.
I beleive this is how the system should work, a minor would need to have a parent on hand to give permission to the retailer in order for the minor to buy the product. Its just like how an adult needs to acompany a minor to an R-rated movie. It may be inconveniant for the child, but it keeps the parent involved.
I agree it has plenty of good uses, but I'm with Bean. It has to be enacted into VA and MD as well, or it's just absoluetly pointless since it's a $2 ride on a train to get the game somewhere else.
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Aside from the pointlessness Bean pointed out, I don't see anything wrong with this. It just makes it so the parents are aware of what their children are exposed to. The only inconvenience is to the kids, and to that I say...tough titty.
Now if this was a strait out, no one can buy them ban, then I would have an objection.
MM's Zentraedi Warlord/CF's Original Predacon/JL's Mad Titan
It's just common sense. If you have any, you'll know if the game is suitable for your child.
There are precocious children, who have no problem playing M-rated video games, and won't deviate off of them, but I can think of other ways in which children can turn bad. Peers, society, parents, where you live and how you live, what you read, who you live with, and how you think.
