Moderator: NecronLord
etc.Gunhead wrote:Shadowsword: 316t
In Honour Guard, Gaunt says that a Baneblade is 300 tonnes. Since hes busy fighting it at the time he can be forgiven for skiping the extra 16 tonnesCurrald wrote:etc.Gunhead wrote:Shadowsword: 316t
Where are your numbers from, Gunhead? Imperial Armour? I agree that 316 tons is a bit excessive. The older figure of 100 tons is large, but not completely over the top. Mind you, I assume that the real biggies like the Capitol Imperialis and the Leviathan would be in that range, if not heavier.
Depends on how the defense operates. Modern tanks IIRC can survive hits that would destroy an older tank, but the materials science would not be noticably different. Rather, the way they defeat the attack (ablative/reactive armors, and whatnot.)Black Admiral wrote:And yet a Baneblade can shrug off hits that'd damage a Russ pretty heavily, if not destroy it outright (Honour Guard). That says that the Baneblade's using higher grade armour materials.Gunhead wrote:One could think that a vehicle like Baneblade would be massively more well amoured than say the leman russ. Not so, Baneblade has a frontal armor of 220mm and the leman russ 180mm.
-Gunhead
Assuming a perfectly hemispherical crater (rather generous) it could be anywhere from a couple of megatons (for fragmentation/cratering) to 6 gigatons (melting) to 30 gigatons (vaporization). Glass-smooth might imply something much more than fragmentation, but thats offset by the probability that the crater depth is much less (I'd guess not much deeper than a few hundred meters, tops)Black Admiral wrote:Well I can't help with that, but a Warhound chassis survived at near-ground zero of a nuclear explosion that dug out a crater described as "a gently curving glass-smooth, concave bowl two kilometers wide." The crew however, were less resilient.
It had those, there was a substantial blast wave at 30klicks.Of course, a gigaton range explosion would have other factors (a massive fireball, luminosity far more brilliant than the sun, blast waves, etc..)
The warhound was inside the open compound of the Admech facility, which was the target of the orkish weapon, a heavily fortified Titan pen.the latter might mean more durability, but it might cause problems since the tank would be buffeted pretty nastiyl, if not tossed into the air/overturned/etc.)
Imagine a DS just jumping into the system far away from any planets and firing the SL into the sun and then leaving, properly calculated the SWGE could charr Terra's surface and leave the emperor alive below.Medstar II p.288-289:
...A solar flare burst from our sun that was over ten light minutes long. A hug. unheard-of massive eruption, far greater than any the star had produced in ten millions years. A flare that jetted forth with such power and force that Equanus was cooked...
..Very simple: that solar flare was not a natural disaster. The Republic, the glorious wonderful benign Galactic Republic's military leaders were testing a new weapon. A planet buster, a superweapon for some kind of ultimate battle station being developed. They fired it into our sun, and they miscalculated.
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Substantial isnt quite specific enough. How substantial was it? Enough to kill a person at 30 klicks, or knock down a building, or what?white_rabbit wrote: It had those, there was a substantial blast wave at 30klicks.
That might protect against the blast wave and prevent it from getting fl ipped over, but it also may very well screen the tank gainst some or all of the radiation. (It also suggests the range was well outside the crater.. ie greater htan 1-2 km)The warhound was inside the open compound of the Admech facility, which was the target of the orkish weapon, a heavily fortified Titan pen.
We already had a non-specific, non-quantified post in here already, and I doubt the WH40k'ers will appreicate you waltzing in and making their side look bad any more than they did the other guy.Junghalli wrote:The real question to my mind is whether the Empire's troop carrying capacities are up to the job. We postulated A fleet of 1,000 ISDs. Let's say those 1,000 ISDs are accompanied by 5,000 troop transports. Let's say each troop transport carries 25,000 men. That's a total of 125 million men.
That may seem like a lot, but let's pause to consider what they're facing. A fortress world with a population of trillions. After they get through that they've got to break into a continent sized palace defended by thirty foot war machines armed with capital ship weapons and psychers so powerful they make the greatest Sith lords look wimpy. You're looking at casualties in the billions here. I'd say you'd have to up the ante on force commitment considerably
And let's not even get into what might happen if the GEoM gets pissed at a bunch of stormtroopers barging in on the Golden Throne room.
I have to admit I'm not exactly an expert on 40K and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to sound like one, but from what I understand the general consensus is that you'd have to throw considerably more than 125 million stormtroopers at Terra's defenses to capture the GEoM. Am I correct?Connor MacLeod wrote:We already had a non-specific, non-quantified post in here already, and I doubt the WH40k'ers will appreicate you waltzing in and making their side look bad any more than they did the other guy. Meaning, back up some of your claims.
Well even large solar flares would by that time be so expanded that it wouldn't be very concentrated, a planet without shields could indeed have it's atmosphere burnt off and the surfaced turned into charred wasteland.NecronLord wrote:I don't know if the Imperial Palace would survive being directly hit by a super solar flare HDS...
The solar flare described must be massively powerful. It extends on for another two light hours beyond one AU. The amount of ejecta, and the speed, would result in some pretty horrendous damage to any building on the surface. The Imperial Palace isn't all that.His Divine Shadow wrote:Well even large solar flares would by that time be so expanded that it wouldn't be very concentrated, a planet without shields could indeed have it's atmosphere burnt off and the surfaced turned into charred wasteland.
But I think the palace would survive, as well as the larger orbiting stations, which could possibly hide behind the planet itself too.
Enough to shake a 2,500-tonne Warlord class Battle Titan, despite the inertial dampeners.Connor MacLeod wrote:Substantial isnt quite specific enough. How substantial was it? Enough to kill a person at 30 klicks, or knock down a building, or what?
The Warhound was just outside the main Titan pens, outside the crater but within the nuke's blast radius. Its legs were damaged and it was partly buried, but the chassis itself was mostly intact.That might protect against the blast wave and prevent it from getting fl ipped over, but it also may very well screen the tank gainst some or all of the radiation. (It also suggests the range was well outside the crater.. ie greater htan 1-2 km)
There's a "hard" Exterminatus (lances, mass drivers, fusion bombs) in the Fire Warrior ending cutscene, but I dunno how long that took. The Dawn of War novel states that the end result of such a strike is reducing the planet's crust to molten rock.Connor MacLeod wrote:I was referring to what was apparently a violent BDZ event.. The mass scattering-style planet destruction (DS style) generally has to occur very quickly for it to be effective, so timeframe isn't as crucial (though technically I suppose one could take hours or days to "scatter" the mass of a planet, so long as you blasted the chunks outwards at least at escape velocity...)
Another problem is that Night Haunter was being pursued by at least one other primarch (Rogal Dorn), so it's not likely that Night Haunter was going to hang around for long, given that Dorn was kind of monumentally pissed off with him.Not unless it took 10,000 years for the fleet to destroy the planet
Oh well. So much for that idea I suppose. I guess one might infer that a day or so timeframe for the planet-killing event is reasonable (8 hours maybe is reasonable, if one accounts for human necceessities like food or sleep, but that is not hard and fast due to crew shifts.)
Makes sense.Well the principle applies whether you're talking about energy or force/momentum. The smaller the area "contacting" the target is, the easier it is to cut through (thats why knives cut like they do after all - you're concentrating the strength of the blow onto a very small area on the blade.)
Initially somewhere between 100-50 meters I'd guess, all of two feet later.Ah. I see.
How much less? like 100 meters? 50? 10?
Main reason Veq was deflecting/dodging the bullets was to show the Word Bearers how outmatched they were, I think. He's something of a show-off, certainly, and has a penchant for theatrics.Okay.
Supersonic at least.. possibly as high as hypersonic (estimate based on probable projectile mass and probable recoil/momentum.)
Lets assume 1 km/s (about 3 times the speed of sound), with a distance of oh.. 50 meters.
for reaction time, its just the distance traveled divided by the bullet's velocity. In other words, it takes .05 seconds (1/20th of a second) for a bullet moving at 1 km/s to cross 50 meters.
As for acceleration: assuming that the person has to move bodily half a meter to one side to dodge in .05 seconds.. requires an acceleration of at least 400 m/s^2.. or 400 gees if I did my math right.
Generally speaking, we're talking acceleration in the tens or hundreds of gees, depending on the specific range and velocity combinations you use.. a fairly long range with a fairly low velocity is goign to result in a lower acceleration value - a short range plus a high velocity results in much higher accelerations.
There is one possible flaw in this as "bullet dodging" - moving that fast rqeuires some sort of "force field/telekinetic" acceleration, but generally any sort of TK would also allow the person to deflect the bullet out of the air (or nudge the gun aside.. either a feat easier than physically "dodging")
That was part of what Veq was doing. His defence seems to be a combination of blocking, dodging, and catching incoming fire."catching" or "blocking" bullets is a slightly different matter (might require slightly less motion... say maybe a foot or half a foot) and it only involves moving part of the body, not the whole thing.
Sven, a Blood Claw (Space Wolf scout) was making a point of theiving HMGs off corrupted Guard units in Grey Hunter and putting them to good use. So, they can handle some more powerful weapons (a CSM in Traitor General was carrying around an autocannon in a powered shoulder mount).I see.
I see.
Not much help then I'm afraid
That might not bode as well for the marines then, unless they get their hands on some pretty hefty or "heavy" cannons..
Imperial Guard command vehicles, about 100m tall, and heavily shielded+armoured. They're mainly armed to fight infantry though.About the same as what I mentioned before.. blowing the head up like that should be on the AMR-rifle/heavy machine gun scale (.50 cal)
Leviathans?
Round from one of the myriad weapons designated macro-cannons. These range from smaller, three-tonne rounds (mentioned earlier) to APC-sized shells fired from shipboard guns.10 meter long cannon shell?
Tactical dreadnought armour has shields of its own, but they act more to diffuse incoming fire. As far as durability, a plasma rifle shot didn't breach the chestplate of Forrix's tacdread armour in Storm Of Iron (Forrix being a shining example of how much damage it takes to put down an SM) but it was close.Maybe.. but its more probable you'd face an SD-9/SD-10.. which are shielded IIRC (the latter also has "self-healing metals" incorporated into it...) Hand to HAnd shields are going to doubtless inflict damage as well (Gungan-sized theatre shiedls can incinerate an unarmoed human)
Yep. Which is why Imperial Guard armour units are very stringent in their selection processes: they don't like wasting the Emperor's most holy ammunition, especially if it means that a heretic gets a free shot at them.Probably, although accuracy might suffer if it takes a noticable length of time to "lock down' before firing (once you're "locked in" you can't do much if the target changes position.)
He had no other choice, the sword was the only weapon he had left. Everything else was lost or destroyed during his battle with the Last.Main reason Veq was deflecting/dodging the bullets was to show the Word Bearers how outmatched they were, I think. He's something of a show-off, certainly, and has a penchant for theatrics.
