ST vs SW - Attempt at something new

[Shinova]

SW side has Galactic Empire as of RotJ. Death Star 2 is finished, no DS1.

ST side has, all members at full strength:

All major Alpha/Beta quadrant races
Borg
Species 8472
Dominion
Hirogens (they managed to capture voyager, meaning they survived the technobabble)


Assume everyone in the ST side works together 100% and can share tech. With that in mind, does the Empire still sidewipe them?

[Master of Ossus]

Yes. Yes it does.

[Anarchist Bunny]

The borg could kick their ass if they went full force, and it would take 9 waves of 1000 borg cubes to take down an ISD's shields so...

[Ghost Rider]

Yes...I mean given the size of the Empire's fleet and a DS2(no weakness, capable of hitting captial class ships...and against a inferior force)

Sorry Darth Vader for the first time is heard laughing....hard.

[jegs2]

SW side has Galactic Empire as of RotJ. Death Star 2 is finished, no DS1.

ST side has, all members at full strength:

All major Alpha/Beta quadrant races
Borg
Species 8472
Dominion
Hirogens (they managed to capture voyager, meaning they survived the technobabble)


Assume everyone in the ST side works together 100% and can share tech. With that in mind, does the Empire still sidewipe them?

So long as we leave the enigma demigod super-races (Q and his ilk) out of the equasion, the Empire should be victorious.

[Ender]

Lets try some basic number crunching here.

Dominion and it's allies had 30000 ships.
The FKR had to match that, so lets say combined they also had 30000 ships
The only statment we have on borg fleet size is hyperbole and contradicted within the same episode. But lets run with that. They say "thousands of ships, millions of vessels". Now then, in naval parlance as I have thus far encountered it the term ships refers to a warship where as vessel is the lesser craft like Swic boats and some minor tenders. (Subs are called boats, which I don't get, but OK) So lets say that "ships" refers only to their warships, the cubes. This would put a cap at 999999 warships. Now lets assume a 10:1 rule of 10 lesser support ships (spheres, Diamonds, pods, etc) for every cube. That puts the total borg strength at 10999989 total borg craft.
Now then we know absolutly nothing aboutr 8472 numbers, but we do know that they were a definate threat. This was due largely to their PK ability, but lets go and assume it is also because of fleet parity. Theres another 10999989 ships.
So far, not counting the Hirogen that brings the combined total fleet up to 22,059,978 ships.

The Empire has 378 million ships by some estimates.

Right, now lets look at the only 2 that are a real factor here, the Borg and the 8s. The others seem to be at about roughly the same level of tech, as they can fight each other with no alarming problems. I'm fairly certain someone else will deal with the 8s, but 2 points on them: Planetary shields would stop the PKins chain reaction from occuring, and ship shields would do the same against independent 8472 ship weapons, which, since voyager was able to take a glancing blow, can't be all that powerful. (if Voy was only hit with 1% of that beams power and if we up its shields to a Gigaton, that still leaves the 8s 100 GT shots of a MTL)

Now then, my main point on the borg.
Scorpion part 1:
TUVOK: Over the past 5 months, the Borg have been attacked by them on at least a dozen occasions. Each time, they were defeated ... swiftly.

Scorpion part 2
BORG V.O.: Species 8472 has penetrated Matrix 010, Grid 19. 8 planets destroyed. 312 vessels disabled. Four milion six hundred twenty one Borg eliminated. We must seize control of the Alpha Quadrant vessel and take it into the alien realm.

Scorpion Part 2:
CHAKOTAY: Mister Paris, in your estimation, how long before we clear Borg space?
PARIS: According to long-range sensors, the concentration of Borg star systems is decreasing. I'd say another week ... ten days.

Now lets assume that that last attack is the same as all the other attacks. This would mean that the borg have lost 96 planets. 96 out of thousands. So clearly this is not a large scale offensive. Yet the borg expect defeat in 10 days at this rate.

My theory is this: the 8s appear to be making a direct thrust into borg space, specifically towards unamatriz zero, the borg home world. As a result, I conclude that UM0 is key to the borg, and it's loss would result in the loss of the entire collective. Consider it as an analogy to a computer: UM0 is the CPU. everything goes through it. Fry the processor, the comp us a rather expensive doorstop.

Kill Unamatriz Zero, and knock out the Borg.

COMMENCE PRIMARY IGNITION.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Bye bye ST.

[pecker]

Isn't UMO hidden in a transwarp conduit or something?

[Gandalf]

Unimatrix Zero was like a place where some Borg went to dream and be their former selves

[Ender]

Fine, not Unamatrix Zero then, but whatever the name of the borg homeworld or capital world is.

[Kuja]

COMMENCE PRIMARY IGNITION.

Those words always send shivers up my spine like no other three, with BASE DELTA ZERO in a close second and I LOVE YOU way behind in a distant third.

[Darth Yoshi]

Wow. ST is still royally fucked.

[Vendetta]

Of the races thus far demonstrated, only the 8472 will even cause casualties.

Their weapons can slap Borg down quite swiftly, and whilst this only means they're badder than anything so far seen in Star Trek, it seems to put them on a level where they can at least take on the smaller SW vessels, even if they will have to avoid Star Destroyers like the plague. Taking one on with 8472 ships would require the sort of long term harassment seen in the X-Wing games, where they deplete the ISD's supplies until they can finally attack them (makes the rebels seem more like a proper guerilla force)

[meNNis]

*poof*
no more trek

[Master of Ossus]

Of the races thus far demonstrated, only the 8472 will even cause casualties.

Their weapons can slap Borg down quite swiftly, and whilst this only means they're badder than anything so far seen in Star Trek, it seems to put them on a level where they can at least take on the smaller SW vessels, even if they will have to avoid Star Destroyers like the plague. Taking one on with 8472 ships would require the sort of long term harassment seen in the X-Wing games, where they deplete the ISD's supplies until they can finally attack them (makes the rebels seem more like a proper guerilla force)

I don't even see evidence that S-8472 could defeat smaller Imperial capital ships (all ST races can destroy TIE's), and they would certainly have no chance against an ISD or similar.

[Romulan_nemesis]

Okay....9legions of a thousand borg cubes to take down a star destroyer? No matter how much star wars technobabble you throw out (Its rare in SW, but it exists!), that is just god damn ridiculous. Be realistic. Maybe, 10 or 12 Borg cubes....but not 9 legions of 1000 each. Let's not be like rabid trekkies, whom trekkers refer to as trekkens...

[Mr Bean]

Be realistic. Maybe, 10 or 12 Borg cubes....but not 9 legions of 1000 each. Let's not be like rabid trekkies, whom trekkers refer to as trekkens...

Romulan MINIUM Figures ATM Peg SW ISD Shielding Strength at 40 Teratons per section(There are six) Considering the higest ever demsorated Shielding is rougly 8 Gigatons and considering that the ISD posses over 100 Weapons dishing out 200+ Gigatons of Damage EACH capable of firing one every TWO seconds and each Indeptandly or joint abley targetable its very hard to make the case that less than a thouand Borg can scract the ISD


To make a Comparsion to the Andromida, Which though it lacks even Gigaton level shield(Read none) it can easily walk through anything less that 100 Federation ships... Why? It is armed with 20 and 100 Megaton missles which it can Salvo at 320 per second each second and the avarage ST ship can't take more than 500 Megatons meaning it wipes the floor with all things ST under the amount of Fifty(Don't forget they are moving at .9C too)

Same problem with this, Shields Asside the Star Destroyer Posses 100 Weapons that have over fifty times the nessary amount to Destroy the Cubes, FIFTY TIMES Romulan, theres 100 of them, and they have Light mintue ranges and Sensors(Light Years acutaly)

Anything less than 300 Cubes would be quickly pasted(Even assuming 10% Accurasy that still less than sixty seconds before all are hit)

[Master of Ossus]

Okay....9legions of a thousand borg cubes to take down a star destroyer? No matter how much star wars technobabble you throw out (Its rare in SW, but it exists!), that is just god damn ridiculous. Be realistic. Maybe, 10 or 12 Borg cubes....but not 9 legions of 1000 each. Let's not be like rabid trekkies, whom trekkers refer to as trekkens...

Do you have any evidence to back this up, or is it just a claim that "They must be able to, because it looks that way to me?"

[Col. Crackpot]

how does the empire arrive? I can think of three possibilities

A hyperdrive accident involving a sector fleet, alone in the galaxy with no way home and no reenforcements.... there would be a slim chance of the feddies, et al overrunning them in the long term, but only after years of war and trillions dead.

a stable, defendable wormhole that allowed a steady supply line would insure victory for the empire.

Inter Galactic flight could make for some difficulties. it would be hard to maintain suppy lines with a travel time of a few years between the two galaxies. The empire would prevail, but there would be civil disobediance and resistance for decades if not centuries.

thats just my opinion, take it for what its worth

[Lex]

the fact is, not even with shared techs and all together, Star Wars could never stop the Empire...but now i have to wonder: could the republic(let's say, with the fleet strenght be4 the yevethan crisis)

[arctic_series]

Star Wars could never stop the Empire...

well there we have it.. not even star wars can stop the empire.. lol nice typo.

[Darth Akwat Kbrana]

Okay....9legions of a thousand borg cubes to take down a star destroyer? No matter how much star wars technobabble you throw out (Its rare in SW, but it exists!), that is just god damn ridiculous. Be realistic. Maybe, 10 or 12 Borg cubes....but not 9 legions of 1000 each. Let's not be like rabid trekkies, whom trekkers refer to as trekkens...

10 or 12 Borg cubes wouldn't even get a chance to fire. They'd march in a straight line toward an ISD, stop, and start their little "We are the Borg" speech. Somewhere around the "We will add your biological and technological..." part, the ISD would've blown them all to space dust.

[Mike_6002]

[quote="Mr Bean"][quote]Be realistic. Maybe, 10 or 12 Borg cubes....but not 9 legions of 1000 each. Let's not be like rabid trekkies, whom trekkers refer to as trekkens...[/quote]
Romulan MINIUM Figures ATM Peg SW ISD Shielding Strength at 40 Teratons per section(There are six) Considering the higest ever demsorated Shielding is rougly 8 Gigatons and considering that the ISD posses over 100 Weapons dishing out 200+ Gigatons of Damage EACH capable of firing one every TWO seconds and each Indeptandly or joint abley targetable its very hard to make the case that less than a thouand Borg can scract the ISD


To make a Comparsion to the Andromida, Which though it lacks even Gigaton level shield(Read none) it can easily walk through anything less that 100 Federation ships... Why? It is armed with 20 and 100 Megaton missles which it can Salvo at 320 per second each second and the avarage ST ship can't take more than 500 Megatons meaning it wipes the floor with all things ST under the amount of Fifty(Don't forget they are moving at .9C too)

Same problem with this, Shields Asside the Star Destroyer Posses 100 Weapons that have over fifty times the nessary amount to Destroy the Cubes, FIFTY TIMES Romulan, theres 100 of them, and they have Light mintue ranges and Sensors(Light Years acutaly)

Anything less than 300 Cubes would be quickly pasted(Even assuming 10% Accurasy that still less than sixty seconds before all are hit)[/quote]

The borg have a <insert place of damanation> of a chance of beating the SW at all with millions of ships, I say not even the whole collective could defeat a Excutor SSD, but a lone ISD MKII they destroy 1 or 2 at the most and that will be sheer luck

[Mike_6002]

Igonre my post please!

I confused myself with that statement.

I'm new and yet very busy posting.

If I offended you Lord of Irony I'm really sorry.

If I'm becoming a troll Private Message me, so I can avoid becoming a Timothy Jones <Shudders after typing his name>