Gandalf vs. Harry Potter

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-12 05:39pm

fgalkin wrote:Yes, but he said himself that he forgot many things that he remembered before. His friendship with the fellowship might have been one of those things.

Most of the wizards memory of their true maiar selves is foggy at best. thus, I'm not surprised that Gandalf's memory is clouded.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-11-12 05:42pm

We know so little about the highest power-wizards in HP that it's hard to compare. On the one hand, they seem to be very good at enchanting and charming objects, but their combat skills suck. I think it fair to say that Gandalf would beat the crap out of anyone in the HP books (probably including Voldemorte), but that both magics are useful for different things.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-12 06:17pm

Master of Ossus wrote:We know so little about the highest power-wizards in HP that it's hard to compare. On the one hand, they seem to be very good at enchanting and charming objects, but their combat skills suck. I think it fair to say that Gandalf would beat the crap out of anyone in the HP books (probably including Voldemorte), but that both magics are useful for different things.

It's the mystery that surrounds Gandalf's power that is so appealing. He, for the most part, keeps it hidden. I wonder what a full demonstration of his energies would be like? Terifying perhaps?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-12 09:48pm

Next of Kin wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:We know so little about the highest power-wizards in HP that it's hard to compare. On the one hand, they seem to be very good at enchanting and charming objects, but their combat skills suck. I think it fair to say that Gandalf would beat the crap out of anyone in the HP books (probably including Voldemorte), but that both magics are useful for different things.
It's the mystery that surrounds Gandalf's power that is so appealing. He, for the most part, keeps it hidden. I wonder what a full demonstration of his energies would be like? Terifying perhaps?

Very much so. Olorin was a very skilled and powerful Maiar, if he opened up a can of whoop ass it wouldn't be pretty.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-12 10:49pm

Durran Korr wrote:
Yogi wrote:Supposedly, Gandalf is from a race of gods, but they've sworn an oath not to use their powers to intefere in Middle Earth, which is shy he has his sword. Gandalf unleashed took out a Balrog. Harry Potter = dead.
Yeah, he is of the Maia, basically the lowest level of divine beings in the world of Middle Earth. He's the same as Saruman and also Sauron.

And IIRC, Gandalf's purpose in Middle Earth is to rid it of Sauron and to destroy the ring. It's even questionable whether Gandalf had normal feelings like a sentient being, or if he was basically just a robot of God. I think that he initially did not, but after spending time on Middle Earth he developed human/elf/hobbit/whatever emotions and became a normal being.

No, his purpose was to inpire the free peoples of middle earth to stand up to Sauron and not directly intervene much like the mission of the other four wizards. The wizards cloaked themselves in flesh and thus were tempted by the same desires that all men face. Have a look at Saruman, the head of the order. If he was a robot of Manwe the he would never have switched sides. Even Sauron was a Maiar and made his choice to leave the service of Aule, his master, and the same goes for the Balrogs; they had a choice and they chose the dark side.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-12 10:50pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Next of Kin wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:We know so little about the highest power-wizards in HP that it's hard to compare. On the one hand, they seem to be very good at enchanting and charming objects, but their combat skills suck. I think it fair to say that Gandalf would beat the crap out of anyone in the HP books (probably including Voldemorte), but that both magics are useful for different things.
It's the mystery that surrounds Gandalf's power that is so appealing. He, for the most part, keeps it hidden. I wonder what a full demonstration of his energies would be like? Terifying perhaps?
Very much so. Olorin was a very skilled and powerful Maiar, if he opened up a can of whoop ass it wouldn't be pretty.

I forget which Valar he served. It wasn't Mandos was it?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-12 10:52pm

Next of Kin wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Next of Kin wrote: It's the mystery that surrounds Gandalf's power that is so appealing. He, for the most part, keeps it hidden. I wonder what a full demonstration of his energies would be like? Terifying perhaps?
Very much so. Olorin was a very skilled and powerful Maiar, if he opened up a can of whoop ass it wouldn't be pretty.
I forget which Valar he served. It wasn't Mandos was it?

Manwe

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-12 11:20pm

Next of Kin wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Next of Kin wrote: It's the mystery that surrounds Gandalf's power that is so appealing. He, for the most part, keeps it hidden. I wonder what a full demonstration of his energies would be like? Terifying perhaps?
Very much so. Olorin was a very skilled and powerful Maiar, if he opened up a can of whoop ass it wouldn't be pretty.
I forget which Valar he served. It wasn't Mandos was it?

Freelance Maiar. Not all of the Maiar were direct servants. Some like Olorin or Osse were more less independent. I believe the closest he came to a valar mistress would be Lorien (I forget her non-colloquial name).

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-12 11:21pm

The Dark wrote:
Next of Kin wrote:
I forget which Valar he served. It wasn't Mandos was it?
Manwe

No, no, no! Olorin did not serve any of the Valar directly!

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2002-11-12 11:27pm

I've heard that when Gandalf died in FoTR, he was sent back not by any of the Valar but by Illuvatar himself.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-12 11:39pm

Durran Korr wrote:I've heard that when Gandalf died in FoTR, he was sent back not by any of the Valar but by Illuvatar himself.

It's possible but it's never made clear. The valar would be as likely as Eru himself.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-12 11:40pm

In an essay Tolkien wrote in 1954, he specifically stated that Curumo (Saruman) was a Maia of Aule, Olorin (Gandalf) was a Maia of Manwe, Alatar was a Maia of Orome, and Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-12 11:44pm

The Dark wrote:In an essay Tolkien wrote in 1954, he specifically stated that Curumo (Saruman) was a Maia of Aule, Olorin (Gandalf) was a Maia of Manwe, Alatar was a Maia of Orome, and Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna.

I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-11-12 11:50pm

Stormbringer wrote:
The Dark wrote:In an essay Tolkien wrote in 1954, he specifically stated that Curumo (Saruman) was a Maia of Aule, Olorin (Gandalf) was a Maia of Manwe, Alatar was a Maia of Orome, and Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna.
I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.

It was said that they weren't so much servants as students, which would explain Radagast's preoccupation with nature (Yavanna's specialty) and Saruman's weakness to temptation (Sauron was also a Maia of Aule).

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-13 12:03am

The Dark wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
The Dark wrote:In an essay Tolkien wrote in 1954, he specifically stated that Curumo (Saruman) was a Maia of Aule, Olorin (Gandalf) was a Maia of Manwe, Alatar was a Maia of Orome, and Aiwendil (Radagast) was a Maia of Yavanna.
I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.
It was said that they weren't so much servants as students, which would explain Radagast's preoccupation with nature (Yavanna's specialty) and Saruman's weakness to temptation (Sauron was also a Maia of Aule).

I don't know about that. The Maiar seem to be as smart as the Valar. Why they wouldn't have all the same knowledge if they started out as the same sort of angelic spirits?

Post by **fgalkin** » 2002-11-13 12:43am

Stormbringer wrote:
The Dark wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.
It was said that they weren't so much servants as students, which would explain Radagast's preoccupation with nature (Yavanna's specialty) and Saruman's weakness to temptation (Sauron was also a Maia of Aule).
I don't know about that. The Maiar seem to be as smart as the Valar. Why they wouldn't have all the same knowledge if they started out as the same sort of angelic spirits?

They did not start out as the SAME sort of angelic spirits. The maiar were not present during the Music, and they have never seen Iluvatar directly. They are weaker and less wise than the Valar.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalin

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2002-11-13 01:00am

Stormbringer wrote: I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.

It matters not what the offical standing of the essay is.

Faramir, while talking to the Sam and Frodo, said that Gandalf once said "...Olorin is my name in the west that is forgotten...."

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-13 06:21pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:
Stormbringer wrote: I'm not sure how much standing those essay's have. And Olorin in The Silmarillion pretty much wandering around Valinor as he pleased. Not really servant or vassal like.
It matters not what the offical standing of the essay is.

Faramir, while talking to the Sam and Frodo, said that Gandalf once said "...Olorin is my name in the west that is forgotten...."

That's just it, the Istari themselves have a cloudy past; they don't truly remember their past lives but rather, they know certain details much like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. One thing for sure is that they do know of their mission to inspire the peoples of middle earth for which only Gandalf remained true.