Morgoth vs Satan

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-13 10:04pm

Morgoth, the mightiest of the Valar, leader of the forces of Angband against the Devil himself. Who would win in a battle between the two. Assume Morgoth is at the height of his power, crowned with the three silmarils and satisfied with his destruction of the two trees and the banishment of Ungoliant. Satan has just be cast out of heaven in a failed campaign to wrestle that realm from the hands of God. Who wins?

I choose Morgoth as he is a god himself and the mightiest of his order. He is able to raise and level mountains and thus, shouldn't have any problem dispatching the prince of darkness with a mighty blow of his hammer.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-13 10:46pm

Squash goes Satan. Morogoth at his height was a bad ass mofo and would smash even a renegade angel like a bug.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-13 10:55pm

Stormbringer wrote:Squash goes Satan. Morogoth at his height was a bad ass mofo and would smash even a renegade angel like a bug.

How true! Perhaps Satan would be more in his league with one of the lesser balrogs. Gothmog or Sauron would prove to be too much.

NieA_7 · Post by **NieA_7** » 2002-11-15 07:08am

Actually.... Satan and Morgoth were both the same bloody creature.

Tolkien wrote the Silmarrion as a Catholic based mythology: Manwe was Jesus, Morgoth Satan, and Eru, the Illuvatar, as God himself.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2002-11-15 07:33am

NieA_7 wrote:Actually.... Satan and Morgoth were both the same bloody creature.

Tolkien wrote the Silmarrion as a Catholic based mythology: Manwe was Jesus, Morgoth Satan, and Eru, the Illuvatar, as God himself.

Same roots, maybe, but the two versions took off along different paths. I just about laughed my ass off when I saw the title of this thread, at any rate

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-15 08:28am

NieA_7 wrote:Actually.... Satan and Morgoth were both the same bloody creature.

Tolkien wrote the Silmarrion as a Catholic based mythology: Manwe was Jesus, Morgoth Satan, and Eru, the Illuvatar, as God himself.

And Middle Earth's mythology has a healthy greco-roman influence as well. Christianity is hardly the only religion to influence the Silimarillion.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-11-15 09:52am

Morgoth. He has millions of Orcs among his mortal goons, but the Devil don't have many more mortal henchmen than some hokey new-age movements and a bunch of garish-looking metal bands.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-11-15 10:19am

Morgoth

NieA_7 · Post by **NieA_7** » 2002-11-15 11:10am

Stormbringer wrote:
NieA_7 wrote:Actually.... Satan and Morgoth were both the same bloody creature.

Tolkien wrote the Silmarrion as a Catholic based mythology: Manwe was Jesus, Morgoth Satan, and Eru, the Illuvatar, as God himself.
And Middle Earth's mythology has a healthy greco-roman influence as well. Christianity is hardly the only religion to influence the Silimarillion.

True, but fon't forget that Tolkien was a staunch Catholic. I imagine him as a pioneer of the Christian Imagination, though that's another story.

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2002-11-15 07:28pm

NieA_7 wrote:Actually.... Satan and Morgoth were both the same bloody creature.

Tolkien wrote the Silmarrion as a Catholic based mythology: Manwe was Jesus, Morgoth Satan, and Eru, the Illuvatar, as God himself.

Did Tolkien have Catholicism in mind? There are many similarities but I think that to say the Sil mirrors Catholicism is a little bit of a stretch. Morgoth and Satan do have many similarities with the one exception that Morgoth took residence in Middle Earth. Morgoth's power was so beyond Satan's that it essentially was poured into all of middle earth (whereas Sauron's power was concentrated into a ring). Morgoth had the power to distort the design's of Eru by casting up mountains or knocking them down and we get the sense that he is quite powerful.

Manwe and the other powers remain faithful to Eru and could be better compared to the angels. I would say that Gandalf is more Christ like than Manwe. Gandalf is the only one of his order to complete his mission, he remains faithful despite the lures of the ring. Furthermore, Gandalf dies and returns to complete his mission.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2002-11-17 02:21pm

I thought that Melkor(that is his real name, the name "Morgoth" is elvish for "enemy") was in terms of individual power, more powerful than any of the other valar.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-11-17 02:26pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:I thought that Melkor(that is his real name, the name "Morgoth" is elvish for "enemy") was in terms of individual power, more powerful than any of the other valar.

He was, at least in the beginning. And even Melkor was just a name. Morogoth denotes him after his fall really rather than the pre-Fall Melkor.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-11-17 03:25pm

Morgoth=a god. Satan=Angel. Mai=angel.