Suck it down, Abu-Ghraib apologist bitches; it was TORTURE

[Darth Wong]

Remember the dead prisoner who was photographed with that smiling bitch? He died after having his hands cuffed behind his back and then being yanked up into the air by his wrists and suspended that way. This is literally medieval torture.

AP: Iraqi Died While Hanging by His Wrists

SAN DIEGO (AP) - An Iraqi whose corpse was photographed with grinning U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib died under CIA interrogation while in a position condemned by human rights groups as torture - suspended by his wrists, with his hands cuffed behind his back, according to reports reviewed by The Associated Press.

The death of the prisoner, Manadel al-Jamadi, became known last year when the Abu Ghraib prison scandal broke. The U.S. military said back then that the death had been ruled a homicide. But the exact circumstances under which the man died were not disclosed at the time.

The prisoner died in a position known as ``Palestinian hanging,'' the documents reviewed by The AP show. It is unclear whether that position was approved by the Bush administration for use in CIA interrogations.

The spy agency, which faces congressional scrutiny over its detention and interrogation of terror suspects at the Baghdad prison and elsewhere, declined to comment for this story, as did the Justice Department.

Al-Jamadi was one of the CIA's ``ghost'' detainees at Abu Ghraib - prisoners being held secretly by the agency.

His death in November 2003 became public with the release of photos of Abu Ghraib guards giving a thumbs-up over his bruised and puffy-faced corpse, which had been packed in ice. One of those guards was Pvt. Charles Graner, who last month received 10 years in a military prison for abusing detainees.

Al-Jamadi died in a prison shower room during about a half-hour of questioning, before interrogators could extract any information, according to the documents, which consist of statements from Army prison guards to investigators with the military and the CIA's Inspector General's office.

One Army guard, Sgt. Jeffery Frost, said the prisoner's arms were stretched behind him in a way he had never before seen. Frost told investigators he was surprised al-Jamadi's arms ``didn't pop out of their sockets,'' according to a summary of his interview.

Frost and other guards had been summoned to reposition al-Jamadi, who an interrogator said was not cooperating. As the guards released the shackles and lowered al-Jamadi, blood gushed from his mouth ``as if a faucet had been turned on,'' according to the interview summary.

The military pathologist who ruled the case a homicide found several broken ribs and concluded al-Jamadi died from pressure to the chest and difficulty breathing.

Dr. Michael Baden, a distinguished civilian pathologist who reviewed the autopsy for a defense attorney in the case, agreed in an interview that the position in which al-Jamadi was suspended could have contributed to his death.

Dr. Vincent Iacopino, director of research for Physicians for Human Rights, called the hyper-extension of the arms behind the back ``clear and simple torture.'' The European Court of Human Rights found Turkey guilty of torture in 1996 in a case of Palestinian hanging - a technique Iacopino said is used worldwide but named for its alleged use by Israel in the Palestinian territories.

The Washington Post reported last year that after the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, the CIA suspended the use of its ``enhanced interrogation techniques,'' including stress positions, because of fears that the agency could be accused of unsanctioned and illegal activity. The newspaper said the White House had approved the tactics.

Navy SEALs apprehended al-Jamadi as a suspect in the Oct. 27, 2003, bombing of Red Cross offices in Baghdad that killed 12 people. His alleged role in the bombing is unclear. According to court documents and testimony, the SEALs punched, kicked and struck al-Jamadi with their rifles before handing him over to the CIA early on Nov. 4. By 7 a.m., al-Jamadi was dead.

Navy prosecutors in San Diego have charged nine SEALs and one sailor with abusing al-Jamadi and others. All but two lieutenants have received nonjudicial punishment; one lieutenant is scheduled for court-martial in March, the other is awaiting a hearing before the Navy's top SEAL.

The statements from five of Abu Ghraib's Army guards were shown to The AP by an attorney for one of the SEALs, who said they offered a more balanced picture of what happened. The lawyer asked not to be identified, saying he feared repercussions for his client.

According to the statements:

Al-Jamadi was brought naked below the waist to the prison with a CIA interrogator and translator. A green plastic bag covered his head, and plastic cuffs tightly bound his wrists. Guards dressed al-Jamadi in an orange jumpsuit, slapped on metal handcuffs and escorted him to the shower room, a common CIA interrogation spot.

There, the interrogator instructed guards to attach shackles from the prisoner's handcuffs to a barred window. That would let al-Jamadi stand without pain, but if he tried to lower himself, his arms would be stretched above and behind him.

The documents do not make clear what happened after guards left. After about a half-hour, the interrogator called for the guards to reposition the prisoner, who was slouching with his arms stretched behind him.

The interrogator told guards that al-Jamadi was ``playing possum'' - faking it - and then watched as guards struggled to get him on his feet. But the guards realized it was useless.

``After we found out he was dead, they were nervous,'' Spc. Dennis E. Stevanus said of the CIA interrogator and translator. ``They didn't know what the hell to do.''

This also puts that naked-pyramid "hazing" bullshit from Rush Limbaugh into perspective. College kids who are "hazed" do that because they are threatened with not being allowed into the fraternity, but fraternity membership is totally voluntary in the first place anyway. Guess what the prisoners at Abu-Ghraib were being threatened with.

[SirNitram]

Well. I'm even more disgusted than usual. I didn't even realize that guy was dead, to be honest. But Jesus Christ...

[Alyrium Denryle]

Jesus fucking christ. I may joke around about torturing people, but sweet flaming buddhist on a stick... Can we, you knowe, charge someone with crimes against humanity now?

[Aaron]

Jesus fucking christ. I may joke around about torturing people, but sweet flaming buddhist on a stick... Can we, you knowe, charge someone with crimes against humanity now?

Nope, the USA refused to allow the War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called) in The Hague to prosecute American soldiers. You'll have to settle for whatever the court martials see fit to give them. Military prison isn't a joke though.

[Melchior]

"But it was only a single event, there no evidence that it happened more than one time"

[Alyrium Denryle]

Jesus fucking christ. I may joke around about torturing people, but sweet flaming buddhist on a stick... Can we, you knowe, charge someone with crimes against humanity now?

Nope, the USA refused to allow the War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called) in The Hague to prosecute American soldiers. You'll have to settle for whatever the court martials see fit to give them. Military prison isn't a joke though.

FUckers, makes me disgusted with my government. People get pissed off when a bunch of terrorist pigfuckers beheads someone, but then dont hold themselves to the same moral standard.

As far as I am concerned, people need to be put on trial, as high up in the government as the unbroken chain of knowledge can be proven.

[Jason von Evil]

"But it was only a single event, there no evidence that it happened more than one time"

Most definatly bullshit. Now I'm wondering whats really going on at Gitmo and Afghanistan.

[Aaron]

CBC

NEW YORK - U.S. army documents show that photos of American soldiers in Afghanistan posing with hooded and bound prisoners were destroyed after the Iraqi prison scandal.

They also reveal previously unknown allegations of mock executions and beatings in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

The documents were released Friday by the American Civil Liberties Union which requested information about U.S. detainees around the world through the Freedom of Information Act.

In one of the most serious allegations, an Iraqi prisoner said that U.S. soldiers beat him with a baseball bat, broke his nose, dislocated his arms and stuck an unloaded pistol in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

Then he said they forced him to drop an abuse claim in exchange for his freedom.

Army investigators looked into the man's allegations but were unable to verify them. They also dismissed other allegations for lack of evidence.

The ACLU says the documents show that what happened in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison was not isolated and that the military tried to suppress information about widespread prisoner abuse.

The Abu Ghraib scandal broke after photographs were made public of Iraqi detainees being tortured and humiliated by U.S. soldiers. U.S. courts martial have convicted seven soldiers in connection with the scandal. Two others are still on trial.

ACLU executive director Anthony Romero says it has become "increasingly clear" the military was aware of the allegations of torture.

He says "efforts were taken to erase evidence, to shut down investigations and to humiliate the detainees in an effort to silence them."

The army has not commented.

Just another related article. This is starting to resemble the Somali Affair.

[Big Phil]

Jesus fucking christ. I may joke around about torturing people, but sweet flaming buddhist on a stick... Can we, you knowe, charge someone with crimes against humanity now?

Nope, the USA refused to allow the War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called) in The Hague to prosecute American soldiers. You'll have to settle for whatever the court martials see fit to give them. Military prison isn't a joke though.

Since the guy who (apparently) killed him was a CIA interrogator, that would presuppose that he's a civilian. How come only the military guards are going to prison?

[Falkenhayn]

Just another related article. This is starting to resemble the Somali Affair.

Somali affiair?

[Hamel]

Oh, there's no way the neocons could be making excuses now, right?

uh...

"Yawn!
:-0 Hope he gave our boys some good info."

"So now he's a "good" terrorist. What's the problem here?"

"Wonder what the slant of this hit-piece is?"

"Sounds to me like his death was unintentional, but you'd never say it from the way this hit-piece is written."

"Unless this prisoner was captured in uniform or he was an INNOCENT civiliam, I JUST DON' CARE."

[Jason von Evil]

And Canada is looking so much sweeter...

We're hypocrites. We preach about equality and how torture is wrong and yet, look whats going on. Fuck, fuck, fuck FUCK!

[Montcalm]

Just another related article. This is starting to resemble the Somali Affair.

Somali affiair?

A few Canadian soldiers beaten the shit out of a Somali teen in the 1990s,there was this mock trial after the event but i don't think they ever were sentenced for the crime.

[Korvan]

And Canada is looking so much sweeter...

We're hypocrites. We preach about equality and how torture is wrong and yet, look whats going on. Fuck, fuck, fuck FUCK!

Well, Canada ain't too sweet when it comes to torture. The Somolia affair mentioned by Cpl Kendall involved torture carried out by Canadian soldiers. It wasn't as organized as the Abu Ghraib tortures, but it gave our forces a black mark.

If I had my way, the people involved would be charged and tried under the local judicial system.

[Aaron]

A few Canadian soldiers beaten the shit out of a Somali teen in the 1990s,there was this mock trial after the event but i don't think they ever were sentenced for the crime.

A Private Brown was sentenced for it. Ironically all he ever did was hit the prisoner once or twice. Yet he was convicted of torture and murder, while the real menace, a Master Corporal Clayton Matchee went free. Although he was severely brain damaged from a botched suicide attempt. The lowest man on the totem pole was hung out to dry for this crime, even though every up to the Major in command of the Commando knew about it and the CO even recommended that the unit not be deployed due to severe discipline problems within the Commando.

[Jason von Evil]

And Canada is looking so much sweeter...

We're hypocrites. We preach about equality and how torture is wrong and yet, look whats going on. Fuck, fuck, fuck FUCK!

Well, Canada ain't too sweet when it comes to torture. The Somolia affair mentioned by Cpl Kendall involved torture carried out by Canadian soldiers. It wasn't as organized as the Abu Ghraib tortures, but it gave our forces a black mark.

If I had my way, the people involved would be charged and tried under the local judicial system.

*Learns Hollish then*

I'm against the war now, by the way.

[Tommy J]

^^^^^

And people have been critical of my opinion when calling for some kind of 3rd Party Supervision of Interrogations. No different than the DA of any county USA supervising a police interrogation.

I'm sorry, when you get 18-21 year olds and give them unlimited authority and power in an adrenaline rushed situation, things are bound to go wrong.

[Crown]

I don't think anyone who was acting like an apologists for Abu-Graib could be taken seriously in the first place.

[Beowulf]

Jesus fucking christ. I may joke around about torturing people, but sweet flaming buddhist on a stick... Can we, you knowe, charge someone with crimes against humanity now?

Nope, the USA refused to allow the War Crimes Tribunal (or whatever it's called) in The Hague to prosecute American soldiers. You'll have to settle for whatever the court martials see fit to give them. Military prison isn't a joke though.

Multiple reasons for that: don't want to reduce our sovreignty, and don't want Euros with an agenda charging and trying American soldiers.

[Keevan_Colton]

Multiple reasons for that: don't want to reduce our sovreignty, and don't want Euros with an agenda charging and trying American soldiers.

Nasty Euros fucking with about the US demands for the soverignty to commit war crimes...er...I'm failing to see the problem here?

[The Yosemite Bear]

grrr..

I know they saw "Passion of the Christ" one too many times....

oh wait that was before the Mel Gibson film came out, *cues desparate misdirection*

I want my fucking country BACK!!!

[Crown]

grrr..

I know they saw "Passion of the Christ" one too many times....

oh wait that was before the Mel Gibson film came out, *cues desparate misdirection*

I want my fucking country BACK!!!

Jeez! That was such an oblique reference that I had to blink rapidly thrice in order to get it. Good one! *thumbs up*

[Darth Wong]

Just another related article. This is starting to resemble the Somali Affair.

Somali affiair?

A few Canadian soldiers beaten the shit out of a Somali teen in the 1990s,there was this mock trial after the event but i don't think they ever were sentenced for the crime.

You have to realize that Matchee (the guy who did the beating) tried to commit suicide and was seriously brain-damaged by the time the trial would have begun. He was deemed unfit to stand trial because of his massive self-inflicted brain damage. While there may be some evidence that the brass tried to whitewash the affair (which is where most of the scandal centred), the claim that the main perpetrator "escaped justice" is an oversimplification. Not to mention the fact that the government disbanded the entire Airborne regiment after that happened; you cannot compare the Canadian and American governments' respective reactions. At no time was the treatment of the Somali teenager actually sanctioned from the upper levels, much less given a euphemistic bullshit name like "stress position".

[The Yosemite Bear]

grrr..

I know they saw "Passion of the Christ" one too many times....

oh wait that was before the Mel Gibson film came out, *cues desparate misdirection*

I want my fucking country BACK!!!

Jeez! That was such an oblique reference that I had to blink rapidly thrice in order to get it. Good one! *thumbs up*

what that for all intents that midevil torture position kills a person in the exact same machenism as crusifiction.

nah what I am finding really sickening is some of the conservatives around here are using WWII internmant camps and indian reservations as justifications for what happened at that prison....

[Crown]

Jeez! That was such an oblique reference that I had to blink rapidly thrice in order to get it. Good one! *thumbs up*

what that for all intents that midevil torture position kills a person in the exact same machenism as crusifiction.

nah what I am finding really sickening is some of the conservatives around here are using WWII internmant camps and indian reservations as justifications for what happened at that prison....

The partisan face-saving gets beyond rediculous at times like these.