Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War - Winter Assault

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-17 05:12pm

I'll take the Baneblade.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-17 05:42pm

Squiggoth versus Leman russ or Baneblade, who wins and by what kind of margin?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 04:51am

In DoW, a single Squiggoth could probably whack a single Baneblade. In tabletop, probably the opposite, depending on range and line of sight and how the Ork players uses them.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-02-18 05:03am

JediNeophyte wrote:In DoW, a single Squiggoth could probably whack a single Baneblade. In tabletop, probably the opposite, depending on range and line of sight and how the Ork players uses them.

Maneuver warfare owns the day there. The Squiggoth can't turn while moving and all it's weapons face forward. Given an open field, I can run circles around a Squiggoth all day with a pair of Predators and slowly whittle it down.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 05:10am

Rogue 9 wrote:Maneuver warfare owns the day there. The Squiggoth can't turn while moving and all it's weapons face forward. Given an open field, I can run circles around a Squiggoth all day with a pair of Predators and slowly whittle it down.

A Baneblade is like a German Maus; its slow as all hell and almost as big as the Squiggoth. The Squiggoth is much faster. An open field would just be worse, giving the Squiggoth a clear run into melee. Now, an open field would be suicidal for the Squiggoth in TT, but hey, just another beef with DoW.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2005-02-18 05:20am

Well, the expansion's not even out yet so we really can't say too much.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-02-18 05:36am

JediNeophyte wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Maneuver warfare owns the day there. The Squiggoth can't turn while moving and all it's weapons face forward. Given an open field, I can run circles around a Squiggoth all day with a pair of Predators and slowly whittle it down.
A Baneblade is like a German Maus; its slow as all hell and almost as big as the Squiggoth. The Squiggoth is much faster.

What the hell's the point of that? Modern tank warfare is all about mobility. A slow tank with thick-ass armor will get pwned by an MBT that can move significantly faster.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 05:40am

Modern tank warfare is all about mobility.

There you go. You saw the armament listing, what were you expecting?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 10:11am

So Baneblades are 1 at a time super-tanks that require a thousand resources to build, and take forever... that doesn't bother me. Where does the leman russ stand compared to, say, a predator or landraider?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-02-18 10:12am

InnocentBystander wrote:So Baneblades are 1 at a time super-tanks that require a thousand resources to build, and take forever... that doesn't bother me. Where does the leman russ stand compared to, say, a predator or landraider?

Three at a time at least. See the first screenshot in the OP.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 10:16am

Can't, not from work anyway, anyone want to host it so I might take a gander at it?

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2005-02-18 10:51am

Hate to burst your bubble, but that's /concept/ art, just using the in-game engine.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 11:03am

Can the sentinal walker carry anti-infantry weapons (those look like las-cannons)?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 12:32pm

InnocentBystander wrote:So Baneblades are 1 at a time super-tanks that require a thousand resources to build, and take forever... that doesn't bother me. Where does the leman russ stand compared to, say, a predator or landraider?

Can the sentinal walker carry anti-infantry weapons (those look like las-cannons)?

The Leman Russ is the Imperial Guard's MBT. A stock Mars-pattern (or Ryza-pattern or whatever) is armed with a turret-mounted battlecannon (similar to the Defiler's main gun) and a hull-mounted lascannon. Sponsons can be added with heavy bolters, and on rare occasions heavy flamers. Sometimes the hull mount is replaced with a heavy bolter (more common on anti-infantry variants such as the Exterminator).

Armor-wise, it's easier to look at game stats. The Armor Value is the penetration roll required to damage the tank; the higher the better:

Land Raider:
Front - 14
Side - 14
Rear - 14

Predator:
Front - 13
Side - 11
Rear - 10

Leman Russ MBT:
Front - 14
Side - 12
Rear - 10

As you can see, a Leman Russ outclasses a Predator in both arms and armor. LRs are MBTs; whereas Preds are light tanks and easily transportable via Thunderhawk gunships.

As for Sentinels, there are a variety of patterns. Mars-patterns carry multi-lasers (Chimera main gun), Cadians carry autocannons (Predator's gun), Armageddons carry lascannons, and Catachan-patterns carry a heavy flamer and industrial chainsaw.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 12:37pm

As long as all the vehicles are 2nd tier, I'll be happy.

More Brightlances, MORE!

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 01:02pm

InnocentBystander wrote:As long as all the vehicles are 2nd tier, I'll be happy.

More Brightlances, MORE!

Guard have infantry, too. While under 3rd Edition it was possible to field an armored company, the infantry will always be the backbone of the Guard. Guard armies can routinely outnumber Orks.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 01:32pm

Warp Spiders for the own then? hehe

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2005-02-18 01:39pm

Warp Spiders are quite good against Guard, actually. Guardians do OK, too.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 03:00pm

What sort of melee power do they have access to? Anything with good morale and melee power makes my banshees cry

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2005-02-18 03:03pm

Melee power? Um, their Ogryns can hit pretty hard. That's pretty much it. 99% of the Guard can't fight worth shit.

What you wanna worry about is getting your Banshees close enough to harm them. They put out fire like no one's business.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-02-18 03:16pm

Thirdfain wrote:What you wanna worry about is getting your Banshees close enough to harm them. They put out fire like no one's business.

Assault Marines don't have that problem.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2005-02-18 03:17pm

Indeed, and I think it's stuff like Raptors and Assault Marines who will be the biggest threat to the Imp guard.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-02-18 03:29pm

So falcons should do the trick quite handily, or even using warp spiders to engage in melee fast while banshees get in range (though with FoF they get in range pretty fast anyway). Warp spiders should do okay in melee for a short while against IG, no?

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2005-02-18 03:57pm

InnocentBystander wrote:So falcons should do the trick quite handily, or even using warp spiders to engage in melee fast while banshees get in range (though with FoF they get in range pretty fast anyway). Warp spiders should do okay in melee for a short while against IG, no?

You are assuming you have a 1:1 squad ratio.

Since we don't have the expansion yet, let's look at tabletop:

Normally, one Force Organization "choice" buys you one squad, squadron, mob, or whatever. For example, with Eldar, you buy one of your Troops choices with a Guardian squad of 20, and Space Marines can buy a Tactical Squad of up to 10. Now, Guard is the exception to this, they don't buy individual squads, they buy platoons. A command squad and two infantry squads is the absolute bare minimum, with a max of five squads per platoon, each 10 men, plus the lieutenant's 5-man command squad. Guard churns out troops like no other. Individual Guardsmen are literally expendable, costing zero points a piece.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2005-02-18 04:22pm

JediNeophyte wrote:
InnocentBystander wrote:So falcons should do the trick quite handily, or even using warp spiders to engage in melee fast while banshees get in range (though with FoF they get in range pretty fast anyway). Warp spiders should do okay in melee for a short while against IG, no?
You are assuming you have a 1:1 squad ratio.

Since we don't have the expansion yet, let's look at tabletop:

Normally, one Force Organization "choice" buys you one squad, squadron, mob, or whatever. For example, with Eldar, you buy one of your Troops choices with a Guardian squad of 20, and Space Marines can buy a Tactical Squad of up to 10. Now, Guard is the exception to this, they don't buy individual squads, they buy platoons. A command squad and two infantry squads is the absolute bare minimum, with a max of five squads per platoon, each 10 men, plus the lieutenant's 5-man command squad. Guard churns out troops like no other. Individual Guardsmen are literally expendable, costing zero points a piece.

Actually, if you really wanted to get into it, each Guardsman costs about 6 points per model, give or take. It is, however, one of the lowest prices per model.