and of course, these are just the top notch star ships. there's the millions of security cruisers, nebulan b frigates, correllian corvettes, and all the rest patrolling the galaxy.
feel free to applaud and throw flowers ^^
25,000 Star Destroyers
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Re: Star as prefix.
No, the "Star" implies it flies among the Stars. That's all it means, unless you want to say it can Destroy Stars. You assume it is different because of one word, and we pick the other word, one with actual military connotations.Joe Richter wrote:No, because it has the word "star" in front of it, it is obviously not the same as a normal tank. You then have to study it IN RELATION TO other existing vessles of simelar type to assertain its capabilities and size. Assuming a Star destroyer fills a simelar role as modern day destroyers because of one word is foolish.John wrote:So if I call it a StarTank, it's a lot more powerful than a regular tank? Don't go trekkie on us.
In any case, compared to the mighty ships of Dark Empire, the ISD is definitely a Destroyer.
Mr Bean, I also used to use the Imperial-class but Imperator-class is the correct one; it has precedent in canon and when you think about it Imperial-class is a silly name; as said in SWTC, its like calling a Japanese ship 'Japanese-class'. Imperial-class is a collosal mistake- much the same as the 'those domes on the bridge superstructure must be the shield generators' silliness.
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SW also use the term 'Star Cruiser' as well as 'Star Destroyer' which lends support to the idea that the 'Star' bit is just to differentiate it from naval warships.
The naval term 'destroyer' originated in pre-WW1 'torpedo-boat destroyers' that were intended to escort the battle-lines and, well, 'destroy' the dangerous coastal torpedo boats. During the WW1 - WW2 era, destroyers were developed into specialist ASW (anti-submarine warfare) or AAW (anti-air warfare) escorts, usually escorting high-value naval assets such as Cruisers, Battleships, Carriers or convoys of merchant ships. The RN experimented with various names for the specialist destroyers such as Corvettes and Frigates during this period. In the post WW2 era, the RN uses the term 'Frigate' to refer to any specialist ASW warship, and the term 'Destroyer' to refer to any specialist AAW escort. Most navies though still use the term Destroyer to refer to specialist escort warhips, whether AAW or ASW (or even ASuW - Anti-Surface Warfare, though this is rare).
The term 'Cruiser' refers to a range of warship decended from the old single-deck sailing Frigates, which were used as the eyes of the fleet, scouting ahead of the battle-line. They were fast enough and long-ranged enough to out-run anything they couldn't outgun, and powerful enough to take on any merchantman they came across. As such they also saw service against smugglers and as explorers, charting the oceans of the world. The WW1/2 cruisers were still too light to survive in the battle-line, but were used as command ships for ASW groups or Surface-Action groups, escorts for high-value warships like Carriers or as convoy raiders. In general they were multirole warships, able to survive on their own, or able to form a useful part of nearly any group short of a battle-line of really heavy warships. Few navies now operate modern cruisers, though the remaining examples are all more or less multirole warships able to operate in a range of situations.
As to SW 'Star Destroyers', their primary role as seen in the films appears is as escorts for the high-value 'Executor'. Though Vader also uses the 'Devastator' as his personal warship to hunt down the 'Tantive IV' and to transport himself to the DS1 and to the DS2 in ROTJ. This is not really different to how a modern naval destroyer is used, and the term 'Star Destroyer' is fine.
The Mon Calamari 'Star Cruisers' vary in size from ships similar in size to the Imperial Star Destroyers up to much bigger (3+km long) ships. This matches up with how the naval term 'Cruiser' is used, as naval cruiser vary in size from about the same as the biggest destroyers (6000 tonnes or so), to two/three times the size (big WW2 cruisers could easily be 12-16,000 tonnes).
I've always speculated that the term 'Super Star Destroyer' is a generic term for any large warship that is equipped with 'Destroyer scale' weaponary, which appears to be the case with the 'Executor', and could easily be the case with a dedicated 'Command ship'. If this is the case though, the term might also be applicable to other vessels with different roles. It could also help to explain why the large rebel 'Home One' was able to take down the Executors bridge shields so easily, as it's primary weapons might well have been 'real' Cruiser scale, and individually several times more powerful than the heaviest weapons on the 'Executor'.
The naval term 'destroyer' originated in pre-WW1 'torpedo-boat destroyers' that were intended to escort the battle-lines and, well, 'destroy' the dangerous coastal torpedo boats. During the WW1 - WW2 era, destroyers were developed into specialist ASW (anti-submarine warfare) or AAW (anti-air warfare) escorts, usually escorting high-value naval assets such as Cruisers, Battleships, Carriers or convoys of merchant ships. The RN experimented with various names for the specialist destroyers such as Corvettes and Frigates during this period. In the post WW2 era, the RN uses the term 'Frigate' to refer to any specialist ASW warship, and the term 'Destroyer' to refer to any specialist AAW escort. Most navies though still use the term Destroyer to refer to specialist escort warhips, whether AAW or ASW (or even ASuW - Anti-Surface Warfare, though this is rare).
The term 'Cruiser' refers to a range of warship decended from the old single-deck sailing Frigates, which were used as the eyes of the fleet, scouting ahead of the battle-line. They were fast enough and long-ranged enough to out-run anything they couldn't outgun, and powerful enough to take on any merchantman they came across. As such they also saw service against smugglers and as explorers, charting the oceans of the world. The WW1/2 cruisers were still too light to survive in the battle-line, but were used as command ships for ASW groups or Surface-Action groups, escorts for high-value warships like Carriers or as convoy raiders. In general they were multirole warships, able to survive on their own, or able to form a useful part of nearly any group short of a battle-line of really heavy warships. Few navies now operate modern cruisers, though the remaining examples are all more or less multirole warships able to operate in a range of situations.
As to SW 'Star Destroyers', their primary role as seen in the films appears is as escorts for the high-value 'Executor'. Though Vader also uses the 'Devastator' as his personal warship to hunt down the 'Tantive IV' and to transport himself to the DS1 and to the DS2 in ROTJ. This is not really different to how a modern naval destroyer is used, and the term 'Star Destroyer' is fine.
The Mon Calamari 'Star Cruisers' vary in size from ships similar in size to the Imperial Star Destroyers up to much bigger (3+km long) ships. This matches up with how the naval term 'Cruiser' is used, as naval cruiser vary in size from about the same as the biggest destroyers (6000 tonnes or so), to two/three times the size (big WW2 cruisers could easily be 12-16,000 tonnes).
I've always speculated that the term 'Super Star Destroyer' is a generic term for any large warship that is equipped with 'Destroyer scale' weaponary, which appears to be the case with the 'Executor', and could easily be the case with a dedicated 'Command ship'. If this is the case though, the term might also be applicable to other vessels with different roles. It could also help to explain why the large rebel 'Home One' was able to take down the Executors bridge shields so easily, as it's primary weapons might well have been 'real' Cruiser scale, and individually several times more powerful than the heaviest weapons on the 'Executor'.
"Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it."
- Dan Barker
- Dan Barker
That's silly logic. We don't conclude from the name that the vessel is more powerful, we conclude from the vessel's capabilities (versus those of other vessels) that the name is (possibly) used to differentiate between its ocean-going cousins.So if I call it a StarTank, it's a lot more powerful than a regular tank? Don't go trekkie on us.
To wit: If a Startank were, indeed, stated to be more powerful than a regular tank, we would conclude that it is called a "Startank" to make this differentiation.
Notice that a Star Destroyer is far larger and far more powerful than any known carrier in SW, which is quite contradictory to real modern life. Ergo, we conclude that the nomenclature of ship classifications in SW does not follow our own.
The Great and Malignant
The only known carriers in the SW universe are from the EU, and originate with WEG. WEG are hardly known as a reliable source. The films suggest that dedicated carriers are simply not used by SW fleets, as Star Destroyers, Star Cruiser and larger ships are designed to carry their own fighter groups instead. This is obviously a reflection on the level of importance of fighter; ie they are not very useful for fighting for control of space, but are useful in a secondary support roles.Notice that a Star Destroyer is far larger and far more powerful than any known carrier in SW, which is quite contradictory to real modern life. Ergo, we conclude that the nomenclature of ship classifications in SW does not follow our own.
As such SW carriers are used in a different way to modern USN CVNs. They don't form the flagship of a front-line battle-group, rather they are probably used as escort or support carriers, probably in concert with SW frigates. Real world escort carriers are similar in mass to cruisers (ie 11000-20,000 tons), rather than destroyers, but then the aircraft they carry are far more useful than SW fighters, and they warrent proportionally larger ships.
However Star Destroyers in the films do seem to be used in a similar way to naval destroyers today; as escorts to a high-value command-ship.
"Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it."
- Dan Barker
- Dan Barker