Honorverse Marines vs. Stormtroopers

[SylasGaunt]

Actually I thought all pulser rounds were explosive? I'll have to check when I get home tonight (I could be thinking of the darts from an Imperium grav gun, it works mostly the same way from what I can tell).

[Ender]

Pulsers don't seem to perform as well against heavy armor as Plasma weapons in the Honorverse if I am remembering correctly.

Of course, pulsers generally refer to the side arm pistol variety. Pulse Rifle and Tribarrels are assualt rifles and machine guns respectively. Plasma weapons are the equivalent of a grenade launcher or anti tank rocket.

I never liked that little revision. First book Plasma weapons are the most common weapon used by the marines. Second one TriBarrels are the weapon of choice, but Plasma weapons are still standard issue weapons, and a naval tech is certified in their use (IIRC, he was classified as an expert, which doesn't make much sense if the thing is the equivlent of a flame thrower). Then we get a whole shift to pulse rifles being the standard weapon, Tribarrels being heavy weapons, and plasma weapons being heavy backup. That is bull. I would really like to know since when sailors can become combat certified in flame throwers, grenade launchers, and chain guns because right now I'm limited to a mere 9mm, shotgun, and M-14.

[The Dark]

Given that AT-ATs were disabled by falling (at 1 Hoth gravity, which cannot be significantly higher than 1g for physiological reasons), it would not be unreasonable to think that a missile striking at 2,000g would cause severe damage to an AT-AT if not outright destroying it.

They weren't disabled by the 1 g fall, they were disabled because they fell, period. .001 G or 10000 Gs, falling over disables the walker. The gravity had nothing to do with it.

I just figured it was damage from the fall due to the mass and things getting knocked around. If it was just from falling over, though, I think my calculations earlier would show that being hit by a missile, especially broadside, should be enough to knock and AT-AT over (unless it blows a hole right through it).

Personally, I don't understand how they can use a grav wedge in an atmosphere, as it would seriously screw with the planet. Same deal goes for Vong Singularities.

*Shrug* I'm not sure, but they used a 2,000 G missile wedge on Haven. I don't claim to understand it, but it's canon.

[Ender]

Given that AT-ATs were disabled by falling (at 1 Hoth gravity, which cannot be significantly higher than 1g for physiological reasons), it would not be unreasonable to think that a missile striking at 2,000g would cause severe damage to an AT-AT if not outright destroying it.

They weren't disabled by the 1 g fall, they were disabled because they fell, period. .001 G or 10000 Gs, falling over disables the walker. The gravity had nothing to do with it.

I just figured it was damage from the fall due to the mass and things getting knocked around. If it was just from falling over, though, I think my calculations earlier would show that being hit by a missile, especially broadside, should be enough to knock and AT-AT over (unless it blows a hole right through it).

Nope, it took attack runs against the exposed neck after the collapse to kill the bastards, remember?

Personally, I don't understand how they can use a grav wedge in an atmosphere, as it would seriously screw with the planet. Same deal goes for Vong Singularities.

*Shrug* I'm not sure, but they used a 2,000 G missile wedge on Haven. I don't claim to understand it, but it's canon.

I know, I say the same thing about the vong.

[The Dark]

Nope, it took attack runs against the exposed neck after the collapse to kill the bastards, remember?

Eh, haven't actually watched ESB in a year. No VCR, and just got a DVD player and don't have Star Wars for it yet.

[Batman]

I can certainly see a salvo of pulser darts (has anybody ever fired one in semi-auto?) wrecking a limb beyond
repair or even tear it off, but how can a hit to the hand (which you can loose
in its entirety without further damage provided bloodloss is curbed) be that
lethal?

It doesn't have to be hyperbole at all. Back when I was at boot camp we were told that a 50 cal round can kill a person without even having to hit them dead on. A light graze would tear the arm off, and the bleeding would do it for you.

See my emphasis-I agree with you there. Hell, a single hypervelocity frag dart propably can tear off a limb. And of course bloodloss from that can kill you.

But to me the 'hit to the hand=lucky to live' statement indicates a more direct damage mechanism, and I can't see what that could be.

[Batman]

I never liked that little revision. First book Plasma weapons are the most common weapon used by the marines. Second one TriBarrels are the weapon of choice, but Plasma weapons are still standard issue weapons, and a naval tech is certified in their use (IIRC, he was classified as an expert, which doesn't make much sense if the thing is the equivlent of a flame thrower). Then we get a whole shift to pulse rifles being the standard weapon, Tribarrels being heavy weapons, and plasma weapons being heavy backup. That is bull.

Huh? Where do you get that?
On Basilisk Station
The NPA team trying to take out the mekhora lab is armed with pulse rifles, with one guy having a plasma rifle.
The patrol scouting the caves during the Medusan massacre are armed with
pulse rifles, with one guy with a plasma rifle, who is explicitly called a plasma rifleman.
The troops at the massacre are armed with pulse rifles, with tribarrels for backup and plasma weapons in a 'heavy weapons section'.
Seems pulse rifles are the standard weapon here.

The Honor Of The Queen
Hibson's marines are, indeed, said to be armed with tribarrels and plasma
weapons. They're also always in power armor in those statements. Perhaps a dedicated assault element? Armament of skinsuited marines is not stated and may still be pulse rifles.
Or it may not.I'll give you that.
There's one mention of a marine with a pulser, which indicates a non-tribarrel pulse weapon (which are alway referred to as such).
I'd say inconclusive evidence.
After Honor Of The Queen I'm working from memory ATM, but IIRC it stay that way-pulse rifles as standard, with tris for support and/or power armor, and plasma as heavy weapons. Mind you, I've been wrong before.

I would really like to know since when sailors can become combat certified in flame throwers, grenade launchers, and chain guns because right now I'm limited to a mere 9mm, shotgun, and M-14.

Regarding Tremaine, his proficiency with the plasma carbine is commented upon buy a marine identified as his 'small arms instructor',so a plasma carbine at least seems NOT to be a heavy weapon (whereas every other plasma weapon apparently IS, and Honor refers to Tremaine's carbine as a 'cannon' at one point, but oh well...)

And nobody said combat certified. Tremaine is 'qualified high expert'.
I always assumed he just enjoyed shooting and was on the Academy's Plasma Carbine team or something (they're smallarms, remember ), just as Honor was on the unarmed combat team. You know, not combat training, but competition shooting.

[Stormbringer]

I would really like to know since when sailors can become combat certified in flame throwers, grenade launchers, and chain guns because right now I'm limited to a mere 9mm, shotgun, and M-14.

Regarding Tremaine, his proficiency with the plasma carbine is commented upon buy a marine identified as his 'small arms instructor',so a plasma carbine at least seems NOT to be a heavy weapon (whereas every other plasma weapon apparently IS, and Honor refers to Tremaine's carbine as a 'cannon' at one point, but oh well...)

And nobody said combat certified. Tremaine is 'qualified high expert'.
I always assumed he just enjoyed shooting and was on the Academy's Plasma Carbine team or something (they're smallarms, remember ), just as Honor was on the unarmed combat team. You know, not combat training, but competition shooting.

Tremaine seems to be a shuttle pilot. It's possible that they get some more training in small arms. Or he just could be a gun nut. Either way he's not an ordinary spacer in training.

[Soulman]

Personally, I don't understand how they can use a grav wedge in an atmosphere, as it would seriously screw with the planet. Same deal goes for Vong Singularities.

I know, a wedge should send atmosphere and particulates flying out the back at very high velocity. The only way to get around it is if the velocity increases within the wedge but as soon as something leaves the wedge it loses the KE it gained somehow.