Suck it down, Abu-Ghraib apologist bitches; it was TORTURE

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2005-02-20 05:34pm

If you think the atrocities of a few at Abu Ghraib are somehow a condemnation of the entire US and its armed forces, then how are the atrocities of a few on 9/11/01 not a condemnation of the entire Islamic population?

Abu Ghraib didn't "prove" that the United States commits war crimes. It proved that a few soldiers committed war crimes. Soldiers that are now being punished.

The only way Abu Ghraib would indicate that the US condones war crimes would be if we DIDN'T punish the soldiers that committed it.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2005-02-20 05:45pm

Well finally now getting around to replying in general let me say just a few things:

1) Those guards and the interogators were stupid and should have known what they were doing was illegal. Hell every single person going in theater (actually both times for me) gets the same law of war breifing reminding them that they aren't allowed to do this.

2) I'm am sick that the low level guys are getting hung out to dry. If you are a commanding officer it is your responsibility to know what your troops are doing. The garrison commander at Abu-Gharib should have been dismissed and discharged dishonorably.

3) Now on the flip side slow down the rush to judgement about the rest of the prison system and the US actions in general. While I think we can all agree that the documents drawn up about "stress positions" and such were so much a crock of shit that doesn't change the very demaniding job facing the thousands or so of troops still doing prisoner guard detail. There is a reaosn why most of those claims turn out to be spurious. Would you like to know what goes on in those detainee centers?

I'll give you a short preview of what the prisoners do. Mostly it involves shitting in corners when plumbing is provided, pissing over themselves and demanding new clothes at every opportunity, flinging those same feces and the piss laden clothes at guards, vomitting at the guards and a whole host of other actions designed to provoke a response. Is there any justification for Abu-Gharib? Nope but as to the rest of the condemnation and the stories why don't we actually sit back and relax and let the damn investigation proceed apace. It'd be nice if there was some restraint with regards to sweeping statements about the acitvities of American jailers.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2005-02-20 06:41pm

SPOOFE wrote:If you think the atrocities of a few at Abu Ghraib are somehow a condemnation of the entire US and its armed forces, then how are the atrocities of a few on 9/11/01 not a condemnation of the entire Islamic population?

Wow. Just wow. Will the strawmen never cease. Maybe it's just me being literate, but it seems to me most of the comments here reflect on the Administration which has been working to cover this up, and which evidence points to is responsible.

Of course, it's lovely how you say 'People are being punished, so it's all okay!'. Funny how no officers are touched, and no one checks to see if there's more to this.. Nope, sweep it under the rug and pray the media spots something else..

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2005-02-20 06:45pm

Exactly

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-02-21 02:15am

SirNitram wrote:Nope, sweep it under the rug and pray the media spots something else..

You mean like the White House's ties to gay prostitution?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2005-02-21 02:32am

Durandal wrote:
You mean like the White House's ties to gay prostitution?

What?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2005-02-21 02:34am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Durandal wrote:You mean like the White House's ties to gay prostitution?
What?

You mean you haven't heard of Jeff Gannon?

Tommy J · Post by **Tommy J** » 2005-02-21 12:39pm

SPOOFE wrote:If you think the atrocities of a few at Abu Ghraib are somehow a condemnation of the entire US and its armed forces, then how are the atrocities of a few on 9/11/01 not a condemnation of the entire Islamic population?

Abu Ghraib didn't "prove" that the United States commits war crimes. It proved that a few soldiers committed war crimes. Soldiers that are now being punished.

The only way Abu Ghraib would indicate that the US condones war crimes would be if we DIDN'T punish the soldiers that committed it.

I think it's interesting that:

1. No senior officers we're aware of these things happening. This is akin to the prison warden closing his eyes to rapes that occur.

2. Military repeadtly declined the Red Crosses requests to visit these people/facilities and only until it came out did they do such.

3. At best the people involved either in Guntonomo or this prison in Iraq are getting slaps on the wrists compared to their crimes.