We're almost in range.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2005-02-21 12:12am

The only possible reason I could think is that maybe at the time Han couldn't control his quad guns from the cockpit, so he was getting closer to use the blasters on the mandibles? I dunno...how did he blast Vader?

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-02-21 12:23am

As I recall he was in the gun turret when he blasted Vader, I remember him wearing a head set.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2005-02-21 12:36am

some official sources (SWTJ, EGV&V) indicated that controlling the Falcon's guns from the cockpit was possible, but with reduced accuracy.
According to "Tyrant's test" the falcon's guns were "mostly" manually controlled (there wasn't much computer assistance I think) - but the radio drama makes mention of going for a "sensor gun lock" on the TIE it pursued.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2005-02-21 01:00am

This is sort of a stretch...

The sensors (probably not in the best shape anyway) used to lock on targets when the Falcon is controlling guns from the cockpit were being jammed by the TIE, so Han had to compensate himself?

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2005-02-21 01:52am

(Shrugs.) Eh, nothing can really make much sense given the ridiculously low range, except perhaps that zoom magnification explanation. If that's the case, then the TIE Fighter could have been much further away than what we saw from the cockpit. Only problem being that you see outside shots of the TIE Fighter really close right before you see that cockpit shot.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-21 02:52am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I was just watching my ANH DVD. I watched the scene where the Millenium Falcon was following the TIE Fighter leading them to the Death Star. Then there was a part where Han said, "we're almost in range." The shot was from the cockpit's POV, and you see the TIE Fighter right in front of the ship. Almost in range for what? A tractor beam? What the hell is Han talking about? Clearly the laser cannons or concussion missiles could have handled it from that range. So what else could he possibly be referring to?

How do you even know he has those cannons or concussion missiles at the time? He can't even afford to pay Jabba the money he owes him on pain of death, for fuck's sake. How's he going to be able to afford military ordnance for his ship?

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2005-02-21 03:04am

Perhaps the weapons were having some sort of malfunction at the time? It may seem a bit unlikely, but keep in mind that this is Millennium Falcon that always seems to have some sort of problem at the most inconvenient time possible.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-21 03:42am

The Silence and I wrote:As I recall he was in the gun turret when he blasted Vader, I remember him wearing a head set.

Nope. He was in the cockpit. There are headsets in the cockpit as well. You can see them hanging next to Han and Chewie, and Chewie even wears one in a production photo. By TESB, Han got rid of them.

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2005-02-21 06:21am

Darth Wong wrote:How do you even know he has those cannons or concussion missiles at the time? He can't even afford to pay Jabba the money he owes him on pain of death, for fuck's sake. How's he going to be able to afford military ordnance for his ship?

I think that he means the same laser cannons that they use later to blast several TIEs out of the sky when leaving the Death Star. Also, I don't know how Solo did get them, but the OT ICS shows concussion missiles (blue ovoids, IIRC) in the Millenium Falcon during the trip to Alderaan and, thus, pre-refit by Rebel technicians.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-02-21 07:07am

Well, it seems clear from a visual standpoint that the Falcon got some kind of upgrades in between ANH and ROTJ, seeing as Lando was blasting several fighters at a similar distance in the matter of seconds.

Then there´s the case of hitting Vader´s escorts during the trench run. This would have been somewhat easier, as they were not moving away from the Falcon as it approached the Death Star, but sideways. (Like in a shooting gallery.

)

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2005-02-21 02:45pm

Cal Wright wrote:The TIE zoomed right past the Falcon which had just came out of lightspeed. Needless to say they were all stunned that Alderaan wasn't there. The TIE was getting thier attention and was obviously baiting them in for the DSs' tractor beam, which they were caught in. Why didn't Han shoot sooner? Because, there's no point in showing your hand, especially if your a fucking gambler, early. Since he was CATCHING the TIE, he was just biding time. Why wasted energy and shots only to allow your prey to know you have teeth that can easily tear you to shreds?

So, the Empire routinely assumes all YT-1300 freighters, who are actively chasing them and acting in a semi-hostile manner are unarmed and unshielded?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-21 03:38pm

Murazor wrote:Also, I don't know how Solo did get them, but the OT ICS shows concussion missiles (blue ovoids, IIRC) in the Millenium Falcon during the trip to Alderaan and, thus, pre-refit by Rebel technicians.

Those could have been put in during ROTJ. THe OT:ICS doesn't just cover ANH.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-21 03:42pm

VT-16 wrote:Well, it seems clear from a visual standpoint that the Falcon got some kind of upgrades in between ANH and ROTJ, seeing as Lando was blasting several fighters at a similar distance in the matter of seconds.

There's several changes to the Falcon between ANH and TESB. Han upgraded his ship instead of paying off Jabba! He installed two more forward landing gear, two control yokes in the cockpit, changed the "biofilters" in the corridors, and installed a new, faster navicomputer.

For ROTJ, the Falcon also has two forward blaster cannons that fire from the same opening as the concussion missiles.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-02-21 07:37pm

observer_20000 wrote:Perhaps the weapons were having some sort of malfunction at the time? It may seem a bit unlikely, but keep in mind that this is Millennium Falcon that always seems to have some sort of problem at the most inconvenient time possible.

I would find that unlikely; while escaping they worked fine with no maintainence between.

Nope. He was in the cockpit. There are headsets in the cockpit as well. You can see them hanging next to Han and Chewie, and Chewie even wears one in a production photo. By TESB, Han got rid of them.

I stand corrected. Do we know if Chewie was gunning? If not then this does not make things better, as it gives high accuracy to the guns while controlled from the cockpit.

Skylon · Post by **Skylon** » 2005-02-21 07:52pm

Keep in mind everyone, the Falcon's guns weren't manned. Maybe any other laser-type weapons the Falcon has were short-range.

I know the Falcon has Concussion Missiles, but at the time on ANH she may not have been carrying any for whatever reason.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-02-21 09:57pm

Yes, but if Chewie was not gunning when the Falcon saved Luke's rear end from Vader in ANH then accurate ranged targetting is very possible from the cockpit.

If Chewie was gunning then the point stands. I kind of hope he was, Han still should have taken the shot, but if the cockpit was that suitable a weapons control center then the scene just becomes sad (well, more sad).

In addition, AFAIK all the Falcon had in ANH was the turrets, maybe missiles, and maybe the repeating blaster, which cannot take on a fighter anyway.

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2005-02-21 10:44pm

I just watched the scenes in question, and Chewie is in the cockpit with Han. So the turret was controlled accurately from the cockpit.

While watching the 'almost in range' scene I noticed Ben could tell the fighter was out of range simply by looking out the window: "You may as well let it go, it's too far out of range" or words to that effect, to which Han said "Not for long!" So what gives? Was the fighter simply to far away to hit with the kind of weapons typically carried by frieghter/fighter sized vessels? Do weapons with those yields (or something inherent to those class of weapon) break down after only a few hundred meters? It is not like the fighter was maneuvering (it was not) so pure range is all that we know is involved. The only one jamming is the Falcon, and I have never heard of star wars jamming blinding both sides (besides, the fighter was RIGHT THERE).
That scene is bugging me now.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-21 11:01pm

The Silence and I wrote:Was the fighter simply to far away to hit with the kind of weapons typically carried by frieghter/fighter sized vessels?

Nope. The Falcon was much farther away when it hit Vader's wingman.

Do weapons with those yields (or something inherent to those class of weapon) break down after only a few hundred meters?

Nope, for the same reason as above.

It is not like the fighter was maneuvering (it was not) so pure range is all that we know is involved. The only one jamming is the Falcon, and I have never heard of star wars jamming blinding both sides (besides, the fighter was RIGHT THERE).

From the radio drama, its clear Han was going to shoot. As I said before, he may have wanted it vaporized instead of blown apart, so there would be no trace of it that could lead back to his ship. No black box, nothing.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2005-02-22 12:47am

Is it even possible to vaporize a TIE Fighter with laser cannons? AFAIK, you can only make it explode or blast it into pieces. I've never seen it vaporize before, at least not from laser cannons.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-22 06:19am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Is it even possible to vaporize a TIE Fighter with laser cannons? AFAIK, you can only make it explode or blast it into pieces. I've never seen it vaporize before, at least not from laser cannons.

Sure. Compare the TIE explosion in the trench to the ones where the Falcon fights off 4 ties after they escape the Death Star.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-22 08:47am

BTW, here's my old page resurrected from the dead:

http://filmgate.h4h.com/louis/falconrange.html

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2005-02-22 09:01am

Lord Poe wrote:BTW, here's my old page resurrected from the dead:

http://filmgate.h4h.com/louis/falconrange.html

Wait a minute... If Han didn't take the MF through the shield wouldn't that mean the lasers penetrated the DS's shields?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-22 09:17am

observer_20000 wrote:Wait a minute... If Han didn't take the MF through the shield wouldn't that mean the lasers penetrated the DS's shields?

Magnetic field. Not shield.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2005-02-22 02:34pm

If exploding the TIE Fighters into large balls of dust is considered to be vaporizing them, then yes you are right, they were vaporized when escaping the Death Star. But I noticed that they vaporized them at greater ranges than the TIE Fighter was at when it was leading them towards the Death Star. And those vaporizations were only done by one quad cannon. Han was at a closer range, had two quad cannons to control, and the TIE Fighter was flying straight and wasn't even greatly accelerating. If he fired, he definitely would have vaporized the TIE Fighter. So ensuring that he would vaporize it can't be the reason why he wanted to get even closer than what he was.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-02-22 03:09pm

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:If exploding the TIE Fighters into large balls of dust is considered to be vaporizing them, then yes you are right, they were vaporized when escaping the Death Star.

No...you can see debris from the TIEs that were shot down by the Falcon during the DS escape. The vape I'm talking about is Vader's wingman.

Han was at a closer range, had two quad cannons to control, and the TIE Fighter was flying straight and wasn't even greatly accelerating. If he fired, he definitely would have vaporized the TIE Fighter. So ensuring that he would vaporize it can't be the reason why he wanted to get even closer than what he was.

As I pointed out in the webpage, he may have been using the concealed blaster cannon, which seems easier to control from the cockpit.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

We're almost in range.

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