Lucas and his incurable editing compulsive disorder.

Rommie2006 · Post by **Rommie2006** » 2005-02-24 08:22am

I'm sure long time SW fans and owners of SW media (DVD/LD/VHS) is familar with Lucas' "editing compulsive disorder" - an incurable urge to edit his movies OVER and OVER again.

But let's gather pple's opinion here.
After Ep III release, it's likely that Lucas is probably going to release a PT box set. Do you think he's gonna make MORE changes to the PT movies(cause I was thinking of dumping my existing SW I & II DVDs in favour a nice box set).

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2005-02-24 08:28am

Well, the only real change I anticipate is that the Yoda puppet in TPM could be replaced with CG.

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-24 09:00am

I would think so. The sheer amount of CG in the PT means that he could easily and seemlessly change whatever he's not happy with with little difficulty- but asides from the Yoda pupett of TPM, which was just awful, I can't think of why he'd want to change anything. This isn't the OT where he was short of time and resources and technology to show what he wanted (can you imagine Coruscant aka "Had Abbadon" in 1983 tech? Would've looked crap). He probably got it virtually all right the first time.

As far as his editing disorder for the OT, I vacillate between him leaving them alone and jazzing it up a bit. The ROTJ space battle is brilliantly choreographed, but is quite "small". More ships, more explosions, more turbolaser blasts, missiles, etc!

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-24 09:06am

Seriously I had onlky two real problems...one he's solved in the DVD completely, the other...well, he's trying like a good little boy.

Namely Luke's screaming in SE ESB and Greedo. But hey I have the originals on DVD as well.

One note...I do wish the RoTJ battle was larger...I mean loads larger...for fuck's sake it's the pen ultimate battle, and he shortchanges on ships now?

In 1983 I could understand, it looked absolutely massive...but now?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-02-24 09:13am

Right now I think ILM´s a bit busy with the various battles of ROTS. Wait till 2007, then we´ll know if it´s been spruced up.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2005-02-24 10:50am

Ghost Rider wrote:But hey I have the originals on DVD as well.

How'd you manage that?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-24 10:51am

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:But hey I have the originals on DVD as well.
How'd you manage that?

The glory of LD to DVD transfer.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-02-24 10:55am

Ghost Rider wrote:In 1983 I could understand, it looked absolutely massive...but now?

He actually did add new ships in the ROTJ SE, I believe. The problem is they're tiny and in the background. If you've got the originals on DVD I'm sure you can check it out.

I used my tapes to spot the difference. O vid shows the armada for example; SE vid adds a couple of extra moncals or nebulon bs into the far background.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-24 10:58am

Stofsk wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:In 1983 I could understand, it looked absolutely massive...but now?
He actually did add new ships in the ROTJ SE, I believe. The problem is they're tiny and in the background. If you've got the originals on DVD I'm sure you can check it out.

I used my tapes to spot the difference. O vid shows the armada for example; SE vid adds a couple of extra moncals or nebulon bs into the far background.

Yeah, there are a few more ISDs and ships but I wanted a fleet. I mean sure the Alliance is puny, but their intent was on the level that made you go "for a defensive perimeter with what...Home One alone?!"

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2005-02-24 11:01am

It is also possible to purchase the original versions of OT on DVD but they are illegal and probobly would be dificult to find in US and Europe.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2005-02-24 11:08am

Ghost Rider wrote:Yeah, there are a few more ISDs and ships but I wanted a fleet. I mean sure the Alliance is puny, but their intent was on the level that made you go "for a defensive perimeter with what...Home One alone?!"

Agreed. Perhaps there was some deficiency in the technology back in the mid 90s or whenever they started the SE touch ups, so he couldn't inject more blood and guts into that battle. Or maybe he truly likes how it turned out? If so, then he doesn't feel a need to edit the big space battle.

So:

1) He had the capability, but lacked the motivation.

or

2) He lacked the capability, and I guess time will tell if he lacks the motivation. The SW DVDs showed a lot of minor changes (as well as screwups) but IIRC the space battle of ROTJ was left untouched from the SE release. Maybe he truly thinks it's complete?

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2005-02-24 11:17am

Ghost Rider wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:But hey I have the originals on DVD as well.
How'd you manage that?
The glory of LD to DVD transfer.

How did you do it? I've been thinking of doing that for some time now.

BTW, hi.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-02-24 11:19am

GL does not seem to share our love for great big epic space battles (despite the fact that the title of his films is Star Wars) he goes for the small important battles. He does like big ground battles - Hoth, Endor, Naboo, Geonosis. But in space he limits it to starfighters and isolated big ships - ANH, ESB, TPM, AOTC. Only ROTJ do we see an honest to god fleet engagement, it focusses on the starfighters mostly (hell the A-Wing taking out the bridge and sensor globes gets far more screen time than seeing the fleet concentrating all fire power on the Executor)

That's just his style. He likes small space battles, focussed on fighters maybe because he believes you care more about a single pilot than you do against a faceless nameless crew on a big ship, maybe he doesn't like to choreograph epic space battles, maybe he finds them boring, maybe he lacks imagination to properly write one, maybe he just doesn't really care to depict one. However you look at it, I don't see a major reworking of ROTJ battle.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-02-24 11:22am

Phil Skayhan wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote: How'd you manage that?
The glory of LD to DVD transfer.
How did you do it? I've been thinking of doing that for some time now.

BTW, hi.

LOL...haven't seen you in a long while.

Actually through a few programs of downloading the LD, which I had hooked up to my all in wonder card(or my friends since I have no use of said device but he was nice enough to make me use it) onto his puter, and burning it onto DVD.

Though it didn't turn out too well, basically the LDs weren't of the best quality, transfer was decent enough but eh it the originals for as long as I maintain them.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2005-02-24 04:08pm

Mange the Swede wrote:Well, the only real change I anticipate is that the Yoda puppet in TPM could be replaced with CG.

Uh, Yoda in TPM WAS CG. It was just really sucky CG.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-24 04:10pm

Praxis wrote:
Mange the Swede wrote:Well, the only real change I anticipate is that the Yoda puppet in TPM could be replaced with CG.
Uh, Yoda in TPM WAS CG. It was just really sucky CG.

No he wasn't. Yoda was a puppet in TPM except for one scene (Obi-Wan appointed to a Knight ranking), which was a CG Yoda walking with the camera at a low angle long shot from behind.

SCVN 2812 · Post by **SCVN 2812** » 2005-02-24 04:32pm

I think the ROTJ battle will end up jazzed up a bit. You know Lucas, he's never satisfied and when he looks at the Battle of Coruscant and then thinks about the Battle of Endor, I think Endor will strike him as small and insignificant for the stakes.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-24 04:43pm

I personally doubt it. Lucas' revisions have been mostly due to him wanting to correct what he felt were limitations that were made at the times of production. The fact that so little was done to the Endor fleets for the 1997 and 2004 releases of the SE is proof to me that that's all that they felt needed to be done.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2005-02-24 04:44pm

Vympel wrote:(can you imagine Coruscant aka "Had Abbadon" in 1983 tech? Would've looked crap).

Are you kidding? It would've looked great. All he would have had to do is put a shot of the planet with tons of ISDs and maybe a few Executors orbiting it and a scene of the Emperor's palace with a matte painting of all of the buildings in the background, like what he did for Bespin. And there could have been a big model set of the city, with a camera tracking a Lambda shuttle with TIE escorts flying through it to land on a platform of the palace. I'm not sure how this scene would fit in...perhaps Palpatine talking with Vader through a hologram about visiting the DS II or about the whole plan in general?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-02-24 04:49pm

Except that it wouldn't have been just a couple of shots or scenes: in many of the early treatments and script drafts, Had Abbadon was a major location (basically fulfilling the role of the Throne Room in the final film, with one of its moons acting as Endor), something like half or at least a third of the film.

Had Abbadon would have to have been greatly scaled back in terms of scope and scale, and would have looked only passable in 1983.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2005-02-24 08:51pm

Lucas is like a plastic scale modeler. Ever tried making a diorama? You're always going back and trying to tweak it just a little bit more. Sometimes you put a lot of effort into a tweak, only to stand back when you're done and realize that you made it look worse. Often times your pathological inability to know when enough is enough can lead you to overcomplicate a diorama, adding too many elements when they really aren't necessary.

It's a problem common to those who are cursed with a creative impulse but not with that rare genius ability to know precisely what you want before you even start, so you're always trying to "improve" what you made rather than being able to work toward a fixed goal and then stop when you get there. I'm told that Ridley Scott is an example of a director who has the rare ability to know exactly what he wants before he starts and the even rarer ability to know when he's gotten there.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-02-24 09:22pm

If only George had kept the Greedo Scene the same and mading some changes to the Endor battle instead... I wanted a big fight, dammit!

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-25 05:19am

Stravo wrote:GL does not seem to share our love for great big epic space battles (despite the fact that the title of his films is Star Wars) he goes for the small important battles. He does like big ground battles - Hoth, Endor, Naboo, Geonosis. But in space he limits it to starfighters and isolated big ships - ANH, ESB, TPM, AOTC. Only ROTJ do we see an honest to god fleet engagement, it focusses on the starfighters mostly (hell the A-Wing taking out the bridge and sensor globes gets far more screen time than seeing the fleet concentrating all fire power on the Executor)

That's just his style. He likes small space battles, focussed on fighters maybe because he believes you care more about a single pilot than you do against a faceless nameless crew on a big ship, maybe he doesn't like to choreograph epic space battles, maybe he finds them boring, maybe he lacks imagination to properly write one, maybe he just doesn't really care to depict one. However you look at it, I don't see a major reworking of ROTJ battle.

No one tell Stravo about ROTS. He's totally spoiler free.

5,000 ships not including the fighters!

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-02-25 07:32am

No one tell Stravo about ROTS. He's totally spoiler free.

You mean he hasn´t seen the teaser trailer?

Post by **Vympel** » 2005-02-25 08:16am

VT-16 wrote: You mean he hasn´t seen the teaser trailer?

The teaser trailer doesn't really convey the scale of things apparently