ANH Observations

[Ghost Rider]

How else did he do it? His targetting comp was off remember. The Torps were fired blind.

You're making the assumption that the torpedoes weren't fire and forget. The targetting computer could have just been used to help the pilots, and not the torpedoe.

Either way, the Torps weren't locked on to anything. . .

While true, they themselves had to be doing something given...every other pilot had the same idea. No one went "Sir, Torpedos can't do that so why aren't we armed with..."

And no one had any idea of Luke's powers of the Force whatsoever.

[The Original Nex]

While true, they themselves had to be doing something given...every other pilot had the same idea. No one went "Sir, Torpedos can't do that so why aren't we armed with..."

And no one had any idea of Luke's powers of the Force whatsoever.

I understand that, but I was talking about Luke's torps specifically. His were fired dumb, or am I wrong to make that assumption. . .

[Stofsk]

ANH: Imperial Officer: "We count thirty Rebel ships my lord. . ."

That just means there was at least 30 Rebel ships attacking the Death Star. There could have been more the radar operators missed, there could have been a second wave coming up from Yavin, which wouldn't be counted. Or maybe the sensor jamming affected the Imp's sensors as well (as in, they miscounted 30 rebel ships when there was more). Or battle attrition had depleted the rebel's flight group to that amount. Or all of the above.

[Elfdart]

That might be true. Remember the guys in the shiny blue and white helmets? The Falcon, Luke, Wedge and the Y-Wing might have just been all that were left out of the fighters who went for the exhaust post, and the other fighters took a different route back and/ or different time. Just because they aren't in the final shot doesn't mean they were all destroyed.

Red Group had about 12 fighters. Odds are Gold Group didn't even have that many to start, but let's keep it simple and give them 12, too. That leaves at least a half dozen fighters unaccounted for.

[The Original Nex]

ANH: Imperial Officer: "We count thirty Rebel ships my lord. . ."

That just means there was at least 30 Rebel ships attacking the Death Star. There could have been more the radar operators missed, there could have been a second wave coming up from Yavin, which wouldn't be counted. Or maybe the sensor jamming affected the Imp's sensors as well (as in, they miscounted 30 rebel ships when there was more). Or battle attrition had depleted the rebel's flight group to that amount. Or all of the above.

I suppose. . .it seems more likely that that was a total count though. . .

[The Original Nex]

That might be true. Remember the guys in the shiny blue and white helmets? The Falcon, Luke, Wedge and the Y-Wing might have just been all that were left out of the fighters who went for the exhaust post, and the other fighters took a different route back and/ or different time. Just because they aren't in the final shot doesn't mean they were all destroyed.

Red Group had about 12 fighters. Odds are Gold Group didn't even have that many to start, but let's keep it simple and give them 12, too. That leaves at least a half dozen fighters unaccounted for.

Or we could assume they were all destroyed by TIE Fighters and/or surface guns. . .

[Ghost Rider]

While true, they themselves had to be doing something given...every other pilot had the same idea. No one went "Sir, Torpedos can't do that so why aren't we armed with..."

And no one had any idea of Luke's powers of the Force whatsoever.

I understand that, but I was talking about Luke's torps specifically. His were fired dumb, or am I wrong to make that assumption. . .

Actually turning off the targeting computer may have been nothing more then telling him when to shoot the torpedos...not give them any such guidance.

Also consider this...if we say Luke did such a deed, lifting the X-Wing would've been a trivial feat in TK application and all he could do at best was make it hover for a few seconds. And this is when he had honest training.

So we have to tak that into consideration if we go into that route.

[Stark]

Hello? Its called the climax of the movie. Its called an epiphany. Its called the Power of Pathos. The rebel crew thought Luke was dead when he turned his puter off: how's he going to set the seekers without it? All he did was press the fire button. The only possibility other than 't3h Force did it' that suggests itself is that they're cruise missiles and their course was preset at the base. Maybe jamming threw off red leaders inertial guidance or something.

[Tychu]

Remeber Gold leader kept barking "Stay on target" This was most likely what prevented them from doing a loop de loop to hit the ties. Ie not enough time to attack ties and get back in position to hit the port. What they really needed was some designated fighter doing what Han did to save Luke.

I always thought that he was really talking to himself or his R2 unit when he was shouting "Stay on Target, Stay on Target"

i dont think the group was they key i mean the dialouge is "Luke u'll have to take the shot" And in multiple souces they say that back wingmen were there to defend the shooter

[Skylon]

As stated before, he died as a result of getting caught in the explosion of the deflection tower. He never got hit by anything else. Here is the dialogue:

Porkins: I've got a problem here.
Biggs: Eject.
Porkins: I can hold it.
Biggs: Pull up!
Porkins: No, I'm all-AAAHHH!!!!!

Then his cockpit immediately explodes and it cuts to his fighter exploding. You never see anything hit him. He was damaged somehow from the explosion.

You're neglecting something.

Right before the line "I've got a problem here" we see a shot of a lot of turbolaser fire.

Though we never see the turbolasers actually strike Prokins X-Wing, I always assumed that the implication was those turbolasers were shooting at Porkins, he got caught in some heavy fire he couldn't get out of, and got shot down by those TL's.

[Skylon]

Remeber Gold leader kept barking "Stay on target" This was most likely what prevented them from doing a loop de loop to hit the ties. Ie not enough time to attack ties and get back in position to hit the port. What they really needed was some designated fighter doing what Han did to save Luke.

I always thought that he was really talking to himself or his R2 unit when he was shouting "Stay on Target, Stay on Target"

Actually, Gold 5 has the "stay on target" line. Which strikes me as somewhat odd...

Actually thinking about the dialogue...

Gold Leader: It's no good I can't maneuver!
Gold 5: Stay on target.
Gold Leader: We're too close!
Gold 5: Stay on target!
Gold Leader: Loosen up!

Um...did Gold 5 disobey his CO's orders and get him killed?

After all that "stay on target" crap, when Gold leader went down, Gold 5 sure didn't waste any time trying to bug out...

[JointStrikeFighter]

Perhaps the protorps had been programmed to execute a 90 degree turn after release and there was a slight delay in the time between the proper time to realse and the computer saying 'release,' as such luke using the force allowed them to be released at the right time.

[Stark]

Since there was a huge furor over 'use the force', 'trust your instincts' etc, its obvious that relying on the targetting computer was the wrong thing to do. It seems clear the the force was responsible for his shot being successful, although it isn't clear how this is so. He may have merely timed it better or changed the launch angle slightly.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, Gold 5 has the "stay on target" line. Which strikes me as somewhat odd...

Actually thinking about the dialogue...

Gold Leader: It's no good I can't maneuver!
Gold 5: Stay on target.
Gold Leader: We're too close!
Gold 5: Stay on target!
Gold Leader: Loosen up!

Um...did Gold 5 disobey his CO's orders and get him killed?

After all that "stay on target" crap, when Gold leader went down, Gold 5 sure didn't waste any time trying to bug out...

The official line is that Gold Leader panicked when he saw the TIE's coming, and Gold 5 was trying to calm him down.

[PainRack]

Actually, Gold 5 has the "stay on target" line. Which strikes me as somewhat odd...

Actually thinking about the dialogue...

Gold Leader: It's no good I can't maneuver!
Gold 5: Stay on target.
Gold Leader: We're too close!
Gold 5: Stay on target!
Gold Leader: Loosen up!

Um...did Gold 5 disobey his CO's orders and get him killed?

After all that "stay on target" crap, when Gold leader went down, Gold 5 sure didn't waste any time trying to bug out...

If you noticed, Dutch was the "veteran" pilot of Gold Squadron and more respected than the lead.

[Isolder74]

yet he's called Gold leader as he is pulling out. Isn't this guy also called gold leader when they are heading for the target shaft?

[Skylon]

yet he's called Gold leader as he is pulling out. Isn't this guy also called gold leader when they are heading for the target shaft?

Gold 5: "Gold 5 to Red Leader. Lost Tyree, lost Dutch."
Red Leader: "I copy Gold leader."

Seems like a flub along the lines of "Red 6 can you see Red 5?"

Or, after Gold Leader went down Gold 5, Gold Leader was the next in line and Red Leader was acknowledging that.

Prior to that, the other pilot had been responding to the "Gold Leader" call sign.

[Darth Yoshi]

I thought of it as the torps were pre-programmed to make the turn after launching, and all the comp did was to fire at the proper time and angle so that the torps don't smash into the surface or into the vent wall.

[Stark]

That makes more sense than anything else: the force allowed Luke to angle and time his launch better than the targetting puter would have.

[Star-Blighter]

While true, they themselves had to be doing something given...every other pilot had the same idea. No one went "Sir, Torpedos can't do that so why aren't we armed with..."

And no one had any idea of Luke's powers of the Force whatsoever.

I understand that, but I was talking about Luke's torps specifically. His were fired dumb, or am I wrong to make that assumption. . .

Incorrect. The targetting computer was for assisting the pilots in maintaining the optimal position for hitting the exaust port while remaining in the trench and safely out of the firing arc of the surface turbolasers. The briefong Dodonna laid out shows the torpedos making the 90 degree turn was expected and well within their capabilities.

[Skylon]

Incorrect. The targetting computer was for assisting the pilots in maintaining the optimal position for hitting the exaust port while remaining in the trench and safely out of the firing arc of the surface turbolasers. The briefong Dodonna laid out shows the torpedos making the 90 degree turn was expected and well within their capabilities.

The computer simulation Dadonna showed during the briefing didn't seem to have the same dramatic 90 degree turn as Luke's torpedoes did. The computer simulation seemed to have the torpedoes proceed on a curved downward arc towards the shaft as I remember. That downward trajectory then leveled to a flat drop once the torpedoes were down the shaft.

Luke's torpedoes seemed to proceed on a steadily descending flat trajectory, than suddenly turn 90 degrees once they near above the exhaust port

Question, what's the reason the pilots could attack the shaft with an angle of attack directly above the exhaust port? That way they could shoot straight down into the shaft. Thereby eliminating the need to go down the trench and exposure to the turbolaser tower and providing, what seems to me, an easier shot.

[Trytostaydead]

I thought the X-wings and Y wings stayed in the trench to protect the one who's going on the bombing run. They were additional rear shields.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Question, what's the reason the pilots could attack the shaft with an angle of attack directly above the exhaust port? That way they could shoot straight down into the shaft. Thereby eliminating the need to go down the trench and exposure to the turbolaser tower and providing, what seems to me, an easier shot.

For some reason they had to fire it at directly 90 degrees. I don't fully understand it myself, but it's in the novelization:

"I didn't say your approach would be easy," Dodonna admonished them. He gestured at the screen. "You must manuever straight in down this shaft, level off in the trench, and skim the surface to - this point. The target is only two meters across. It will take a precise hit at exactly ninety degrees to reach the reactor systemization. And only a direct hit will start the complete reaction.

What shaft? In the novelization, is the thermal exhaust port enclosed inside the DS? I don't get this. That would be a reason why they would have to fly inside the trench, simply because they need to fly inside of the DS like in RotJ. And naturally, they cannot shoot the torpedoes at any other angle than 90 degrees if there is a ceiling enclosing them in the trench. But would this explanation really apply to the movie, since it isn't enclosed? Or do I just not understand what Dodonna means by "shaft"?

Full page.

[Stark]

While they mention a shaft, a 'trench' is an open pit. It'd be a second shaft if it was enclosed. The choice of words is quite odd, but fortunately overridden by the movie.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Not necessarily. The first shaft Dodonna said they would have to pass through could lead to a large chamber with a floor with a trench in it. Understand?

But yes, apparently it's overidden by the movie.