Z-95 or Z95 or whatever.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-02-28 09:42pm

Are the Z95 and Z-95 different? In TIE they looked different (had less engines) than some of the EU images I've seen.

They obviously WEREN'T the prime republic fighter during the clone wars. This is excellent - lets remake TIE fighter, replacing all those UTTERLY HOPELESS Z-95s with ARC-150s or something. Lets see them suck so badly now.

Did anyone honestly believe the Z-95 was the 'primary fighter of the republic'? They fucking suck. Vs anything. Its like saying 'the VSD was the best starship of the republic'. VSDs suck too (as ships of the line, don't be obtuse). Can we remake all the starfighter missions now? Replacing Z-95s with ACTUAL clone wars era ships, replacing the VSDs with Venators or Acclamators? Death to EU minimalism forever!

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2005-02-28 09:53pm

Stark wrote:Are the Z95 and Z-95 different? In TIE they looked different (had less engines) than some of the EU images I've seen.

They obviously WEREN'T the prime republic fighter during the clone wars. This is excellent - lets remake TIE fighter, replacing all those UTTERLY HOPELESS Z-95s with ARC-150s or something. Lets see them suck so badly now.

Did anyone honestly believe the Z-95 was the 'primary fighter of the republic'? They fucking suck. Vs anything. Its like saying 'the VSD was the best starship of the republic'. VSDs suck too (as ships of the line, don't be obtuse). Can we remake all the starfighter missions now? Replacing Z-95s with ACTUAL clone wars era ships, replacing the VSDs with Venators or Acclamators? Death to EU minimalism forever!

And your exact problem is?

What you're talking about can easily be chalked up as game mechanics or an misinterpretation of the EU.

And note that the Z-95, thus far, is entirely an EU creation-- outside of the games and the books, it doesn't exist. Apparently the games decided to treat them differently than they're portrayed in the books, and that wasn't caught in time.

Z-95, Z95-- there's no difference. Some have two engines, some have four; chalk it up to aftermarket mods or manufacturing differences.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2005-02-28 10:13pm

As nearly as I can tell, Z-95s were basically the Honda Civics of starfighters. That should pretty much explain everything.

000 · Post by **000** » 2005-02-28 10:31pm

VSD's were only built at the very end of the clone wars, that's why they're not in the movies.

Anyway, I don't think Z-95s were ever the chief republic fighter. It seems they were more marketed towards planetary police forces and such.

As to the suckiness of the above... chalk that up to game mechanics. In the same game I can hop in a fighter and take out a star destroyer all by my lonesome.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-02-28 10:39pm

I know they're EU - but they say that they're leftovers, republic craft, etc. Their ubiquity suggests a massive production run, but the ROTS there ain't gonna be any. Further, Z-95s suck absolute ass compared to Prequel-era ships: far from being a leftover from a quieter age, they were ALWAYS crap. The Civics of the galaxy, indeed

Actually, if you changed it to 'late republic' instead of 'clone wars' it makes more sense: the late Republic didn't have much of a fleet, and what they had pre-Military creation may have sucked ass, just like Z-95s.

Their crapness ISN'T just game mechanics: they have two guns, crap shields, aren't very fast, limited warheads. They SUCK. I'd rather have a NABOO STUNTFIGHTER.

About VSDs - there will be none. ROTS is the end of the war: no VSDs. Ironically, Acclamators (aside from size) fulfill many of the roles of VSDs, so noones losing anything.

My point is, that from the games, everything the EU said about the war ship-design wise has been totally annihilated. The Clone Wars involved sensible ships, of great size, with quality fighters designed for various roles. NOT the VSD/Z95 rubbish we're supposed to expect.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-01 12:58am

Nitpick: the Z-95 is a Republic era fighter with two triple blasters, not with only two blasters. That's six guns. IIRC, it was first introduced in "Han Solo at Star's End" where it was a tough, reliable fighter. Considering the size and age of the New Republic, a massive production run is a drop in the bucket. If it was sold mainly to planets in the boonies or as guards/escorts to large corporations, it could still exist in large numbers and never show up in the movies.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-03-01 01:01am

Really? In the games (the only EU I've encountered) they've just got two, X-wing style guns. Six weapons makes the whole thing much more tolerable for a light interceptor or something: I wonder why they changed it for the games.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2005-03-01 01:42am

It's been awhile since I've played XWA, haven't played X-Wing or TIE Fighter (I know, I'm missing out, someday I'll get 'em), but in Jedi Academy the Z-95 IS just a two gun poor man's X-wing. It's a bit faster and more manuverable, but definately weaker in terms of firepower and durability/shields.

It has dumb fire warheads instead of lock on missiles like the X-Wing, and can only fire one at a time (instead of two like the X-Wing can). It has one blaster on each wing. In JA though it's got a gray gray finish instead of the red & white markings that I've seen the Z-95 have.

Then again I've only ever played XWA with the XWAUpgrade mods, so I may have missed how it was originally portrayed.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2005-03-01 02:26am

It was cool when introduced in "Han Solo at Star's End." It was a dated, but still capable machine. WEG raped it stat wise and WoC just translated its raped stats. It had two gun clusters, each composed of three blasters. It was inferior to the Corporate Sector Authority ships that Solo and his team went up against, but it didn't suck. It wasn't an X-Wing, nor was it massively well armed, but it was a tough ship with a decent amount of firepower.

Old Plympto · Post by **Old Plympto** » 2005-03-01 02:30am

I think the Z-95 imagery set in stone by WEG is one of the worst blunders they made.

They were first described in Brian Daley's Han Solo novels. They had bubble canopy, a single fin on top and swing wings.

Sunday funnies adaptation of the book drawn by Alfredo Alcala (sp?) drew it very simplistic-like. A crate with a large bubble canopy and fins.

WEG's module Tatooine Manhunt used a Joe Johnston X-Wing sketch for a Z-95. THis was used for the computer games and all.

WEG's Han Solo and the Corporate Sector Sourcebook retroed the look by going the way of large bubble canopy (like the Logan Veritech), swing-wings and a single vertical fin on the engine (like the Colonial Viper, but larger) and explained that these were Z-95 Mark Is which looked radically different from later model Z-95s.

And then, Dark Horse Comics Rogue Squadron : The Phantom Affair made the mess worse by featuring a Z-95 that looked like the Joe Johnston sketch, but can lock s-foils in attack position which made it look almost like an X-wing!!

Now, I pretty much given up on cataloguing different Z-95 variants, and just chalk it up to bad planning (out-of-universe explanation) and lots of post-manufacture modifications (in-universe explanation)

Cabwi Desco · Post by **Cabwi Desco** » 2005-03-01 09:44am

there IS one cannon IMAGE of a Z-95, approved by lucas and designed by that guy who did most of their work... lemme see if i can find it. damn, its just an image of a Prototype X-Wing... anyone still want it regardless?

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2005-03-01 10:59am

Didn't the intro to the TPM novel also have a spacer mentioning having a preference for a Z-95 Headhunter?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-01 11:07am

According to those who read it, the Z-95 was referenced in TPM novelization.

And what does "Lucas-approved drawing" mean? That he decided to finalize the look of the Z-95 once and for all? (Would be an interesting case of "Is it C or is it G canon?")

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2005-03-01 11:35am

Their crapness ISN'T just game mechanics: they have two guns, crap shields, aren't very fast, limited warheads. They SUCK. I'd rather have a NABOO STUNTFIGHTER.

... which has two guns, crap shields, isn't very fast, and not only has limited warheads but only one launcher to fire them out of instead of two.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2005-03-01 11:47am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Their crapness ISN'T just game mechanics: they have two guns, crap shields, aren't very fast, limited warheads. They SUCK. I'd rather have a NABOO STUNTFIGHTER.
... which has two guns, crap shields, isn't very fast, and not only has limited warheads but only one launcher to fire them out of instead of two.

Say what you like about the Z-95, but the shield grid was it's saving grace - always seemed to be able to get back up to full charge much quicker than the rest of the rebel starfighters.

Cabwi Desco · Post by **Cabwi Desco** » 2005-03-01 11:54am

VT-16 wrote:According to those who read it, the Z-95 was referenced in TPM novelization.

And what does "Lucas-approved drawing" mean? That he decided to finalize the look of the Z-95 once and for all? (Would be an interesting case of "Is it C or is it G canon?")

no as i said it was just a Prototype X-wing. but it does look like a z-95 just with s-foil capability. the picture is in any of the Series Alpha sketchbooks, which I think is acutally the Johnston sketch that Old Plympto described

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-01 12:45pm

Ah, I see. Ain´t the first time a discarded movie concept art was adopted by the EU. (See Juggernaut tanks, Victory-class Star Destroyers etc.) Though I´ve never heard of it competing with several different designs for the same thing. Need to sort out stuff like that. :S

Cabwi Desco · Post by **Cabwi Desco** » 2005-03-01 01:04pm

cept the difference now is that the EU juggernaut is not becoming movie level (100% pure) cannon with episode III so in that case its voila!

Unfortunately the Victory Class stardestroyer has been totally blown out of the movie era by the fact it seems to have gone straight from Acclamators to ISDs.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2005-03-01 01:35pm

While it's far from canon, if you want to see the z-95, check out Warlords(HW2 mod), from what I know the maker has tried to keep in with canon as much as possible, within reason. The Z-95 does have 2 triple blasters and is a pretty solid early game fighter.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2005-03-01 01:47pm

El Moose Monstero wrote:Say what you like about the Z-95, but the shield grid was it's saving grace - always seemed to be able to get back up to full charge much quicker than the rest of the rebel starfighters.

Game mechanics don't really reflect just how useful that can be. Games use a percentage-based shield integrity, which doesn't resemble their canon/EU behavior at all.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2005-03-01 01:48pm

The Z-95 is the F-4 (or Mig-21 for our commie-pinkos

) of a galaxy far, far away. A reasonable, respectable fighter that though it's prime has passed is still reasonably capable, upgradeable, and thanks to the production run, cheap and easy to operate.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2005-03-01 03:28pm

I was almost certain that something, somewhere mentions two different production runs of the Z-95, one with the triple blasters close to the body and swing wings, and the later one with laser cannons on the ends of fixed wings. I couldn't remember what it was, but I went and checked SW.com just to see what it had to say, and it turns out that the Databank has a long and detailed history of the craft. No guarantees it's entirely accurate, but it's probably close.

As to the VSD - I don't remember ever seeing a reference specifically to their serving in the Clone Wars at all, even at the end. I only remember reading that they were designed during the Clone Wars. On the other hand, I think they're referred to as serving in the Republic, and the Clone Wars end with the creation of the Empire.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2005-03-01 03:41pm

Mad wrote:
El Moose Monstero wrote:Say what you like about the Z-95, but the shield grid was it's saving grace - always seemed to be able to get back up to full charge much quicker than the rest of the rebel starfighters.
Game mechanics don't really reflect just how useful that can be. Games use a percentage-based shield integrity, which doesn't resemble their canon/EU behavior at all.

Oh yes, I'm aware of the mechanics stuff, sorry, should have made it clear that I was reminiscing more about game play than anything else.

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2005-03-01 10:30pm

Stark wrote:Really? In the games (the only EU I've encountered) they've just got two, X-wing style guns.

All fighter guns in the X-Wing series are exactly the same, even though TIE Fighters are clearly demonstrated in A New Hope to have rapid-fire guns.

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2005-03-02 12:32am

Striderteen wrote:
Stark wrote:Really? In the games (the only EU I've encountered) they've just got two, X-wing style guns.
All fighter guns in the X-Wing series are exactly the same, even though TIE Fighters are clearly demonstrated in A New Hope to have rapid-fire guns.

Not just fighter guns, but I believe all capship guns as well. Basically, all lasers are the same in the X-wing series.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Z-95 or Z95 or whatever.

Z-95 or Z95 or whatever.

Re: Z-95 or Z95 or whatever.