Mace Windu's power

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2005-03-03 03:36pm

Stravo wrote:Considering Obi Wan's words in ROTJ "The Emperor knew that if Anakin were to have any off spring they would be a threat to him" Yoda himself states "The Force runs strong in your family." Luke reiterates this to Leia on Endor. All of this heavily implies either a genetic inheritance or the Force manfests itself along bloodlines. Choosing from a family which members it would manifest.

The force running strong in the family could be interprepted in a metaphysical sense though, would be easier to buy anyway.

Stravo wrote:But then you think about it. Anakin was an only child, born of immaculate conception. How the FUCK can Yoda, The Emperor and Obi Wan make that leap that it runs strong in his family if he's literally the first to display force talent?

I'm gonna stop thinking now, oooh that feels nice...

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2005-03-03 03:48pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:This more meat = more power thing though, hate it!

Doesn't it make Yoda a walking contradiction? I mean, there's not much meat there that I can see and he's meant to be the most poweful Jedi.

Cromag · Post by **Cromag** » 2005-03-03 03:50pm

Dorsk 81 wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:This more meat = more power thing though, hate it!
Doesn't it make Yoda a walking contradiction? I mean, there's not much meat there that I can see and he's meant to be the most poweful Jedi.

Perhaps it has more to do with the ratio of meat : machine than actual mass?

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-03-03 03:53pm

While i dont mind the midichlorian thing this whole more meat=more power notion sounds just stupid. It doesnt even make sense, at least midichlorians have some marginal rational idea to them.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-03 04:13pm

Stravo wrote:But then you think about it. Anakin was an only child, born of immaculate conception. How the FUCK can Yoda, The Emperor and Obi Wan make that leap that it runs strong in his family if he's literally the first to display force talent?

What's the problem? Any offspring born of Anakin Skywalker WOULD have more Midis than most people. He's almost a wellspring of them.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-03 04:13pm

Dorsk 81 wrote:
His Divine Shadow wrote:This more meat = more power thing though, hate it!
Doesn't it make Yoda a walking contradiction? I mean, there's not much meat there that I can see and he's meant to be the most poweful Jedi.

Bingo. Hence my objection. Not to mention the fact that it totally devalues Yoda's 'Judge me by my size' speech.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-03 04:15pm

Dorsk 81 wrote:Doesn't it make Yoda a walking contradiction? I mean, there's not much meat there that I can see and he's meant to be the most poweful Jedi.

Most of you, from day one, have been taking this midichlorian stuff way too literal for your own good. What you're BORN with is what you got. If you lose less and less of yourself, your M-count is hampered from "talking to the Force". Its that damned simple. A fat Jedi wouldn't be more powerful than Yoda, FFS.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-03 04:20pm

Lord Poe wrote:A fat Jedi wouldn't be more powerful than Yoda, FFS.

Damn it Poe, us fat guys never get good roles in movies. That was our last chance, and you just pissed it away.

"The Sith are rising! Double the ice cream order for the Temple!"

Edit- Added an 'and' in the appropriate place.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-03 04:24pm

I think we can all agree on one thing, from cannon and GL himself;

Anakin = Uber Alles

Then it breaks down to Luke/Leia (possibly)

Palpy

Little green dude aka Yoda

And the rest is open to debate;

Vader, Mace, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Dooku, etc.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-03-03 04:36pm

That scale seems prety accurate. I'd put Luke up top though since he eventually downed Anakin, in Vader form, but maybe the difference in power was such it would put Anakin up front.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-03 04:48pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:That scale seems prety accurate. I'd put Luke up top though since he eventually downed Anakin, in Vader form, but maybe the difference in power was such it would put Anakin up front.

Truthfully, in that case I wouldn't quantify it strictly in terms of power. Luke had the motivation all the way, whereas Vader was conflicted.

I'd think that the the distinction in power between such beings would be fine enough that such factors as skill and motivation are far more important in determining the outcome than Luke having a 2% higher midi count or whatever.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-03 04:52pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Stravo wrote:But then you think about it. Anakin was an only child, born of immaculate conception. How the FUCK can Yoda, The Emperor and Obi Wan make that leap that it runs strong in his family if he's literally the first to display force talent?
What's the problem? Any offspring born of Anakin Skywalker WOULD have more Midis than most people. He's almost a wellspring of them.

I would of course agree if we're willing to accept that Force usage is genetic. Which of course leads to the stupidity of the Jedi's decision to never have children, you're essentially killing off those that can pass on the Force sensitive trait.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2005-03-03 05:17pm

Stravo wrote:I would of course agree if we're willing to accept that Force usage is genetic. Which of course leads to the stupidity of the Jedi's decision to never have children, you're essentially killing off those that can pass on the Force sensitive trait.

=snicker= Have you read the Bob Brown interview?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2005-03-03 05:20pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Stravo wrote:I would of course agree if we're willing to accept that Force usage is genetic. Which of course leads to the stupidity of the Jedi's decision to never have children, you're essentially killing off those that can pass on the Force sensitive trait.
=snicker= Have you read the Bob Brown interview?

Sorry I haven't. I'll have to look it up later tonight. Please don't tell me that they do have children but just never take care of them. My nicey nice image of the Jedi is in critical condition since the Prequels began.

Kane Starkiller · Post by **Kane Starkiller** » 2005-03-03 05:44pm

I think we can all agree on one thing, from cannon and GL himself;

Anakin = Uber Alles

Then it breaks down to Luke/Leia (possibly)

Palpy

Little green dude aka Yoda

And the rest is open to debate;

Vader, Mace, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, Dooku, etc.

Vader is at least as powerful as Yoda. He has definetly demonstrated abilites surpasing Mace or Dooku.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-03 05:49pm

Kane Starkiller wrote:Vader is at least as powerful as Yoda. He has definetly demonstrated abilites surpasing Mace or Dooku.

Well you could make that arguement, the obvious rebuttle would be that MINI TINY INTSY SPOILER Yoda survived his confrontation with Palpy and Vader didn't ...

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-03 05:49pm

Kane Starkiller wrote:Vader is at least as powerful as Yoda. He has definetly demonstrated abilites surpasing Mace or Dooku.

When?

Dooku- Force lightning. Shifted large mass of rock to cause Yoda to have to stop the fight and save Obi and Anakin from getting squashed.

Mace- Lack of evidence of him doing much of anything besides jumping around, really.

Vader- Force choke. Tossed some debris. Blamed the Force for his inability to hit a target flying straight and level, rather than the three sixpacks he'd downed that evening a preemptive 'Farewell to the Rebellion' party.

Lone_Prodigy · Post by **Lone_Prodigy** » 2005-03-03 06:41pm

Well, until we see RotS I'm still undecided on the whole issue.

Petrosjko wrote:Vader- Force choke. Tossed some debris. Blamed the Force for his inability to hit a target flying straight and level, rather than the three sixpacks he'd downed that evening a preemptive 'Farewell to the Rebellion' party.

Okay, that is so going in my signature.

Petrosjko · Post by **Petrosjko** » 2005-03-03 07:26pm

Um, cool, but could we at least correct to what I intended to say?

"Vader- Force choke. Tossed some debris. Blamed the Force for his inability to hit a target flying straight and level, rather than the three sixpacks he'd downed that evening during a preemptive 'Farewell to the Rebellion' party."

Thanks.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2005-03-03 07:31pm

Every couple of months somebody brings of Palpy casting Force Storms as proof of his uber-ness. Hello, he cast said force storms from Byss, where he had been siphoning the life energies of several billion people for like 9 years. That was not a 'stock' Palpy just opening up a can of whoop-ass on the spur of the moment. We have no idea the level of preparation necessary to accomplish such a feat, or the time frame required.

Remember Exar Kun used huge freaking temple to wield the energies he did, The dark lords of Korriban used huge focusing obelisks, and crystals...ugh...how new age

That said given that Byss hosted the Emperor's dark side citadel, doesn't seem likely that he wasn't casting those storms on his own.

Oh, and Kyp has never been shown to be stronger than Luke; he just thinks he is. In Jedi search, Luke had no Idea what the device he scanned Kyp with actually worked. As I recall it showed some dark blotch on his 'aura'

Remember Kyp already was skirting the dark side; which was probable what the readings meant. Think about in if your one of the Emperor's Dark side Inquisitors, you could careless how powerful a given Jedi is (the most powerful master are already dead), but you would need to know how susceptible a given Jedi was to turning to the dark side.

Now the real question is where does Kyle fit into the scale.

Oh yeah. I don't think Leia is even remotely as powerful as Luke.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-03-03 07:42pm

However we want to think EU Palps is wank...unless we have proof that he used temple or oblesiks on the Eciplise. This is just poor logic.

Seriously they made him have the power, made not one word of any funky doodads helping him(notice they do for every other Sith lord?).

So unless you have proof, the burden is upon you to show even a single piece of dialogue that he has ever mentioned needing said power conduits.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2005-03-03 07:48pm

Ghost Rider wrote:However we want to think EU Palps is wank...unless we have proof that he used temple or oblesiks on the Eciplise. This is just poor logic.

Seriously they made him have the power, made not one word of any funky doodads helping him(notice they do for every other Sith lord?).

So unless you have proof, the burden is upon you to show even a single piece of dialogue that he has ever mentioned needing said power conduits.

Its random non-contribution time with consequences

:

The reason the Eclipse took as long to build as it did, and looks kind of like a big obelisk thingy, is that its actually Palpy's secret temple link to the energies being constantly generated at Byss. Its primary purpose is not to act as a superweapon, but as a mobile link into the pure energy of the Dark Side.

No there isn't any evidence for this, and really, its just a random thought that just occurred. My actual guess would be that the tap that Palpatine has made into the life essence of the inhabitants of Byss just doesn't appreciably degrade with distance, because he's just that cool(or possibly has a constant low-level wormhole of the sort that we know he can create open and feeding him energy directly from the source).

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2005-03-03 07:49pm

consequences wrote:
Ghost Rider wrote:However we want to think EU Palps is wank...unless we have proof that he used temple or oblesiks on the Eciplise. This is just poor logic.

Seriously they made him have the power, made not one word of any funky doodads helping him(notice they do for every other Sith lord?).

So unless you have proof, the burden is upon you to show even a single piece of dialogue that he has ever mentioned needing said power conduits.
Its random non-contribution time with consequences :

The reason the Eclipse took as long to build as it did, and looks kind of like a big obelisk thingy, is that its actually Palpy's secret temple link to the energies being constantly generated at Byss. Its primary purpose is not to act as a superweapon, but as a mobile link into the pure energy of the Dark Side.

No there isn't any evidence for this, and really, its just a random thought that just occurred. My actual guess would be that the tap that Palpatine has made into the life essence of the inhabitants of Byss just doesn't appreciably degrade with distance, because he's just that cool(or possibly has a constant low-level wormhole of the sort that we know he can create open and feeding him energy directly from the source).

LOL...now that's just wacky for some EU yabbo to think it would work

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2005-03-03 07:55pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
consequences wrote: Its random non-contribution time with consequences :

The reason the Eclipse took as long to build as it did, and looks kind of like a big obelisk thingy, is that its actually Palpy's secret temple link to the energies being constantly generated at Byss. Its primary purpose is not to act as a superweapon, but as a mobile link into the pure energy of the Dark Side.

No there isn't any evidence for this, and really, its just a random thought that just occurred. My actual guess would be that the tap that Palpatine has made into the life essence of the inhabitants of Byss just doesn't appreciably degrade with distance, because he's just that cool(or possibly has a constant low-level wormhole of the sort that we know he can create open and feeding him energy directly from the source).
LOL...now that's just wacky for some EU yabbo to think it would work

Hey, there's no evidence against it, just like there's no evidence against Palpatine being imbued with the 'Power of Cheese'. Or possibly he sends a message back to Byss for everyone to jerk off at an appointed time, and uses the pure concentrated wanking to exert his will upon the universe.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2005-03-03 08:13pm

Actually that Eclipse theory doesnt sound half bad, it actually sounds prety cool and intelligent of him to build a mobile Dark Side tap. Too bad it's not the case, as that's actually better than the real explaination, which appears to be that Palpy just had a lot of power he kept hidden most of the OT.