Z-95 or Z95 or whatever.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2005-03-02 12:43am

Yep. The timeline in which the Victory was created has been fucked up. According to old resources, the Victory was designed during the Clone Wars, but was introduced too late to have any effect on the war, but it was the main warship of the Republic, after the war ...
Maybe we should ask LFL about its current origin.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-03 05:37pm

The Z-95 is a very old ship predating the clone wars by quite a large margin. After purchase addons were very popular and the ship its self went through many upgrades and redesigns. The mk 1 had swing wings and two triple laser cannons and was intened for atmospheric duty with some light space combat for planetary navys/police. the last incarnation is very similar to the X-wing because both were made by Incom. Lucas and Co. screwed with the prequel stuff and total killed all the EU that had been developed and approved. Even what they origional trilogy says about the clone wars(which is little) has been invalidated by ep1,2 and probalally 3.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-03-03 10:04pm

Kartr_Kana wrote: and Co. screwed with the prequel stuff and total killed all the EU that had been developed and approved.

LOL Yay!

I had to say it.

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-04 08:33am

Hmm…. I don’t see a problem in fact…

I mean there are thousands of other ship-classes we never see on screen, but they are still there.

Z-95 Headhunters have been around before the battle of naboo and are the second most often produced starfighter in the galaxy (tie-fighters were more common in and after the imperial era), so pretty much anyone and their mother would own one and could have modified it as much as they want to (adding to that the producers build several variants of it anyway).

Not every star system militia had as much money to throw away as the naboo defence forces, to design their own series of fighters and most of the ships properly used off-screen by the republic were Headhunters, acquired from system militas. In the comics, movies and games we only seem to see the front line forces with modern equipment, anyway.

As for the Victory Star Destroyer, who even claimed the old republic did not own any, or build any? Just because we will not get to seem them on screen, they were still around.

Also, as far as I have heard the battle of coruscant, was a surprise raid by separatist forces, which had waited to attack, after most of the republics fleet was of in the outer rim sieges, fighting the separatist else were. They most likely send there vics of to fight in the rim and kept the venc at home, plus the two destroyers lines might be running simultaneously, the vics build by RDS and the vens by the kuati. The vic properly was more popular in the end and remained in service, whilst the other were later scrapped, just like the assault ships.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2005-03-04 11:16am

Isn't the battle over Coruscant the last gasp of the Separatists, after which only small mop-ups were required?

I certainly don't see a 'problem', simply that my understanding of the Z-95 as 'the old clone wars fighter' is bunk, since the REAL clone wars fighters are WAY BETTER. The idea of a budget fighter sold to nervous planets for self-defence has a lot of merit, but just doesn't fit with the whole 'Old Republic used laughably weak VSDs and Z-95s' impression I got.

Also, I'm under the impression that the Venators are larger than ISDs. I don't really know why, but they certainly appear larger than VSDs, which is the problem: the whole 'there were VSDs, then the evil empire build new super size large ISDs' thing. Thankfully, RotS will show that the GalRep fleet wasn't as fucking lame as the EU always suggested... dreadnoughts and VSDs INDEED.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-10 06:25pm

That is why the new movies SUCK old republic ships are supposed to SUCK because they are OLD!!!! According to specs on the Jedi Starfighter(Delta-7 Aethersprite) is better then the x-wing!!!
WTF
AHU
HEC
T _K

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-10 06:42pm

Stark wrote:Isn't the battle over Coruscant the last gasp of the Separatists, after which only small mop-ups were required?

No it isn´t. There are several other battles left (Kashyyyk, Utapau, Felucia, Mygeeto, Cato Neimoidia, Saleucami etc.), plus General Grievous and the Sep. high command are still at large.

Gorefiend wrote:The vic properly was more popular in the end and remained in service, whilst the other were later scrapped, just like the assault ships.

The Accs still see service with the Imperial forces.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-10 06:43pm

Kartr_Kana wrote:That is why the new movies SUCK old republic ships are supposed to SUCK because they are OLD!!!! According to specs on the Jedi Starfighter(Delta-7 Aethersprite) is better then the x-wing!!!

let's see a standard Delta-7 has no inboard hyperdrive, no warhead launchers and only two cannon, where as the T-65 has hyperdrive, 2 Warhead lauchers (with 3 torps per unit) and four cannons. Doesn't sound better to me.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-10 06:51pm

The Delta-7 has four laser cannon you can see them easist after obi-wan lands on Kamino. The D-7 is faster then the X-wing so it is more of an interceptor, also Ani mods his so that it has more lasers a torp launcher hyperdrive and probable other stuff.

Oh and the Aethersprite has a highly sofisticated com system that alows it to transmit long distances and hack into enemy com systems. The D-7 is not 100% better then the X-wing but it is still a fighter that I would not mind using instead of the Xwing.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-10 07:00pm

Here's theorie I have on the Vic, as the Victory (c. 900 m) and Vendator(c. 1000m (IIRC))are of the same size class. I think that Victory was rush job something others then Acclamators and dreadnoughts into space battles and the Vendator was a more mature design. (dreadnought is a Pre-CW design).

The Delta-7 has four laser cannon you can see them easist after obi-wan lands on Kamino. The D-7 is faster then the X-wing so it is more of an interceptor, also Ani mods his so that it has more lasers a torp launcher hyperdrive and probable other stuff.

Oh and the Aethersprite has a highly sofisticated com system that alows it to transmit long distances and hack into enemy com systems. The D-7 is not 100% better then the X-wing but it is still a fighter that I would not mind using instead of the Xwing.

no the Delta-7 has 2 cannon slipt into 4 barrels (AOTC:ICS) and as do not know cost the modification s Annie made (that's almost irrelevant (also Annie's Fighter is shaped like axehead due it mods (compared to Dagger shape of the standard Delta-7) anyway the Delta-7 closer to the A-wing then X-wing.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-10 07:04pm

I conced Reven. I still think that it is over powered (comparable to an Awing!) and that GL is wanking the power of CWs ships and tech. Not to mention the fact that no clones have fought each other that this war is only 4-5 years long, is one war not mulitple wars, etc.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-03-10 07:20pm

FOG3 wrote:Didn't the intro to the TPM novel also have a spacer mentioning having a preference for a Z-95 Headhunter?

Indeed, and IIRC he was an 'old spacer'. So even being generous, he flew Z-95's atleast 20 years before the Clone Wars. Since the Z-95 seems to have been phased out by the Clone Wars, the fact that it is just on the low side of even with alot of other ships in the OT shows the tech stagnation in the SW universe.

I do wish that Lucas would cut some of the EU some slack in ROTS. Just a little Easter Egg, is all. A couple Victory's and some Z-95's and perhaps a Dreadnaught in the background of some combat scene. Nothing much, just aknoweledgment, like he did with the YT-2400.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-10 07:23pm

Where is the 2400? I want to see it!!!!
You have hit on the major problem with the PT, To hell with the EU and the fans who enjoyed it we are just going to do what we want.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-10 07:25pm

I conced Reven. I still think that it is over powered (comparable to an Awing!) and that GL is wanking the power of CWs ships and tech. Not to mention the fact that no clones have fought each other that this war is only 4-5 years long, is one war not mulitple wars, etc.

the PT is the first Clone war (second being the eradication of the remaining jedi)and the term "Clone wars" doesn't have mean that clones fouth each other. the A-wing is what annie ship is (tough it's depateble does A-wing have shields), again stardard Delta-7 doesn't have warhead or hyperdrive (standard A-wing has both).

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-10 07:26pm

Kartr_Kana wrote:Where is the 2400? I want to see it!!!!
You have hit on the major problem with the PT, To hell with the EU and the fans who enjoyed it we are just going to do what we want.

In ANH SE and DVD.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-10 07:28pm

Which scene?

Oh and annies ship is not the Awing

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2005-03-10 07:31pm

Kartr_Kana wrote:Where is the 2400? I want to see it!!!!

ANH special edition. The YT-2400 is leaving the space port at Mos Eisley as Luke and co. are arriving. It's a aft/port view and hard to tell that it is a YT-2400 if you don't pay attention. But the big block engine is pretty easy to pick out.

You have hit on the major problem with the PT, To hell with the EU and the fans who enjoyed it we are just going to do what we want.

Well, I'm not a big fan of the EU since they've screwed a bunch of shit up but alot of the stuff in the EU has become so common place that it would be nice to get some cannon/movie recognition of. The Victory SD and Dreadnaught are in so many novels and games that it would be nice to put them in as an easter egg. Same with the Z-95

But in a way, I'm glad GL is slashing away alot of the EU storylines/backstory. The PT's are not perfect nor are they as great as the OT but........

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-12 04:17am

Gorefiend wrote:The vic properly was more popular in the end and remained in service, whilst the other were later scrapped, just like the assault ships.

The Accs still see service with the Imperial forces.[/quote]

?_?
When do we see imperials using them? I can only think of the darklighter empire comic, but that’s not really an acc.

I went with the negtsav for that one, which said they started scrapping the assault ships once they got star destroyers.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-12 05:49am

They are seen in use with Victory and Imperial-class Destroyers in the upcoming Empire at War game. I know that might be classified as game mechanics but that only applies to their abilities in the game, I think. There´s
Interdictors too, and they seem to be used in a different way than described, since they´re on the frontlines as well. (Could be a different type of Interdictor for all I know)

And a beautiful painting in Coruscant and the Core Worlds guide book show several Acclamators in an Imperial parade, alongside TIE fighters, bombers, Interceptors and Sentinel-class landing craft.

That´s two independent sources, right there.

And in real-life assault ships and destroyers are used at the same time, they simply serve different roles in the Navy.

(I wouldn´t call the Rand Ecliptic´s class Acclamators, it´s bridge is different, it seems more narrow and there are big hangar openings on each side. IMHO that´s too different to be a modification.)

Gorefiend · Post by **Gorefiend** » 2005-03-12 06:25am

i stand corrected

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2005-03-12 07:16am

Gorefiend wrote:i stand corrected

A nicely resolved debate is a rare sight on the Internet. I almost feel like singing.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-12 09:30am

Kartr_Kana wrote:Oh and annies ship is not the Awing

no, but it also is NOT a stardard Delta-7, a stardard A-wing has internal hyperdrive warhead launcher and possibly a shield generator and stardard Delta-7 has only a shield generator (of these systems).

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-14 04:36pm

Kartr_Kana wrote:
Oh and annies ship is not the Awing

no, but it also is NOT a stardard Delta-7, a stardard A-wing has internal hyperdrive warhead launcher and possibly a shield generator and stardard Delta-7 has only a shield generator (of these systems).

The A-wing was designed by Wallex Blissex and Jan Doddna and was based on the ?R-22 razor? AWings were not standard for quite a while and the launchers were an after thought not part of the origional design.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-14 04:48pm

Kartr_Kana wrote:
Kartr_Kana wrote:
Oh and annies ship is not the Awing

no, but it also is NOT a stardard Delta-7, a stardard A-wing has internal hyperdrive warhead launcher and possibly a shield generator and stardard Delta-7 has only a shield generator (of these systems).
The A-wing was designed by Wallex Blissex and Jan Doddna and was based on the ?R-22 razor? AWings were not standard for quite a while and the launchers were an after thought not part of the origional design.

so the Azure Angel II is only a single craft with no other like it build (infact they designed a whole new ship(the Eta-2)) so mk1 A-wing didn't have the Launchers but mk2 did, get my point now and besides what the A-wing was based on is irrelevant. The fact that A-wing became standard and Azure Angel II did not must tell you something.

Kartr_Kana · Post by **Kartr_Kana** » 2005-03-14 04:53pm

The azure 2 and the Awing have nothing in common in there ancestory, they are two completly different designs that are not related in anyway. The jedi did order an improved delta-7 based on anakins, but that did not become the Awing.