Howedar wrote:I think that Pilot was legally right to crucify Jesus, but I personally wouldn't have. I don't consider the crime he was accused of worthy of capital punishment.
Fair enough, but that was probably true of most crimes for which they crucified people. It was a violent, warrior society (gladiatorial combat, anyone?)
This, for some reason, brings to mind the image of Jesus fighting Maximus in the Colosseum (yes, I know that's a rather anachronistic image. So?)
He'd soooo get his arse handed to him
"I shall resist your temptat- ughhh"
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Howedar wrote:I think that Pilot was legally right to crucify Jesus, but I personally wouldn't have. I don't consider the crime he was accused of worthy of capital punishment.
Fair enough, but that was probably true of most crimes for which they crucified people. It was a violent, warrior society (gladiatorial combat, anyone?)
This, for some reason, brings to mind the image of Jesus fighting Maximus in the Colosseum (yes, I know that's a rather anachronistic image. So?)
He'd soooo get his arse handed to him
"I shall resist your temptat- ughhh"
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
Howedar wrote:I think that Pilot was legally right to crucify Jesus, but I personally wouldn't have. I don't consider the crime he was accused of worthy of capital punishment.
Fair enough, but that was probably true of most crimes for which they crucified people. It was a violent, warrior society (gladiatorial combat, anyone?)
This, for some reason, brings to mind the image of Jesus fighting Maximus in the Colosseum (yes, I know that's a rather anachronistic image. So?)
I think the Romans were certainly onto something with the feeding Christians to the lions.
The letter from Pilate is fake. There are no Roman documents of any kind that mention Jesus. Pilate, though, did exist. There's an account of his dismissal and subsequent trial for cruelty in Syria.
Ethically, what Pilate did was wrong--Jesus didn't do anything that could be remotely construed as a crime against Rome, even using the rather loose Roman definition of the word "treason". Jesus was one of many Messianic preachers roaming the Palestinian countryside. He wasn't the most radical and he didn't advocate revolution against the Romans (he even encouraged people to pay their taxes "render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's, etc."). Pilate did not want to be responsible for starting riots and possibly triggering a revolt. History would go on to prove that a Jewish revolt would have been almost impossible to stop, but to be fair, Pilate couldn't have been expected to be that farsighted.
Any city gets what it admires, will pay for, and, ultimately, deserves…We want and deserve tin-can architecture in a tinhorn culture. And we will probably be judged not by the monuments we build but by those we have destroyed.--Ada Louise Huxtable, "Farewell to Penn Station", New York Times editorial, 30 October 1963 X-Ray Blues
Pilate did exist, there is an inscription of his name on a building in Caesarriyya, a port city on the coast of Israel, from that time period. It was close to a building where Paul was briefly imprisoned, and it is one of the few cases where NT writings and archaeology match up. In fact, Paul's cell can be found within 10 meters, and the "Pilatus" inscription is well known...
That said, Pilate should have executed the actual rebel, Barabbas, who caused known damage and incitement. The charges against Jesus were trumped up and he knew it. Letting a known rebel walk the streets compared to a mere apostate of a non-State religion? Besides, had he not ordered the execution-- thus sparing them their martyr-- the world would have been saved thousands of years of misery... an elderly Jesus on his deathbed would have made an image for a much more calm, passive religion.
Something about Libertarianism always bothered me. Then one day, I realized what it was:
Libertarian philosophy can be boiled down to the phrase, "Work Will Make You Free."
In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
So in Libertarianism, man exploits man, but in Communism, its the other way around! If all you want to do is have some harmless, mindless fun, go H3RE INST3ADZ0RZ!! Grrr! Fight my Brute, you pansy!
'crackpot'. See, this board IS hostile toward christians. Don't deny it, just insult all christians blatently and directly from now on so I don't straddle the fence. Come on, just be objective, OK? Then again I'm just saying stuff full of politically correct bullshit. Disregard please.
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
Pu-239 wrote:'crackpot'. See, this board IS hostile toward christians. Don't deny it, just insult all christians blatently and directly from now on so I don't straddle the fence. Come on, just be objective, OK? Then again I'm just saying stuff full of politically correct bullshit. Disregard please.
We're not anti-Christian, we're anti-idiot. It's just that the two so often go hand in hand that sometimes we forget to make the distinction.
data_link has resigned from the board after proving himself to be a relentless strawman-using asshole in this thread and being too much of a pussy to deal with the inevitable flames. Buh-bye.
Pu-239 wrote:
'crackpot'. See, this board IS hostile toward christians. Don't deny it, just insult all christians blatently and directly from now on so I don't straddle the fence. Come on, just be objective, OK? Then again I'm just saying stuff full of politically correct bullshit. Disregard please.
Its not hostility towards Christians. We are simply looking at the decision made by the roman Pontius Pilate regarding a Jewish cult leader. If someone today claimed to be the son of God, "crackpot" would be an acceptable label. There is no reason to say that Pontius Pilatus is required to see the situation any differently than we would. If the Jewish people desired the death of a crackpot, antisocial, brainwashing fanatic... then that's what he was dealing with.
The problem is that too many Christians take failure to acknowledge the divine nature of Jesus as hostility. That stems from your own inability to accept the fact that others don't believe as you do.
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
It's just the connotation. I would prefer 'eccentric'. However since it means the same thing it is irrelavent.
ah.....the path to happiness is revision of dreams and not fulfillment... -SWPIGWANG
Sufficient Googling is indistinguishable from knowledge -somebody
Anything worth the cost of a missile, which can be located on the battlefield, will be shot at with missiles. If the US military is involved, then things, which are not worth the cost if a missile will also be shot at with missiles. -Sea Skimmer
George Bush makes freedom sound like a giant robot that breaks down a lot. -Darth Raptor
Pu-239 wrote:'crackpot'. See, this board IS hostile toward christians. Don't deny it, just insult all christians blatently and directly from now on so I don't straddle the fence. Come on, just be objective, OK? Then again I'm just saying stuff full of politically correct bullshit. Disregard please.
I would say the on the whole, most people here aren't christian, and can show hostility. But one poster does not speak for everyone, especially me. I reserve my hostility for personal attacks and high stupidity. Now, on to the topic. I feel that Pilate acted rashly as regards the crucifiction. Surely he had other options at hand. In spite of that, I get the impression He wasn't especially gung-ho about the whole deal.
Christ was the leader of a Jewish splinter cult from the Governor's point of view.
He could've cared less, but he offended and threatened the power of the local authorities, the Jewish religious priesthood, and wanting to keep things nice and happy between them and Rome, had Christ nailed.
Darth Wong wrote:If you look at how much damage his followers caused, I'd say crucifixion was mild.
It's arguable that the crucifiction gave the early Christians the rallying-point for their religion. Without Christ's execution, the cult could've fizzled out or have been less zealous.
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Pilot did indeed exist. He built a masive port area that was only recently discovered. It went under the sea in a earthquake or something, I can't remember why, but that port is considered one of the greatest building achievements of the time.
I myself wouldn't have killed jesus. But do to the circumstances i think he did what he had to to keep his own life. If he would not have been crucified that day how many things do you think would be different now. Our whole religous system would be different. Not much at all would be the same. So i say for the sake of the present what he did was right and will remain right!
if you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got!!!
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Take into consideration Pilot's role as an agent of the Roman Empire when you make your decision. Also, make sure you state why you think his decision was right or wrong.
I always thought Pilate handed Jesus over to the people and thus, tried to wash his hands clean of this matter. Wouldn't the high priests also be held accountable too?
Howedar wrote:I think that Pilot was legally right to crucify Jesus, but I personally wouldn't have. I don't consider the crime he was accused of worthy of capital punishment.
Fair enough, but that was probably true of most crimes for which they crucified people. It was a violent, warrior society (gladiatorial combat, anyone?)
I totally agree.
Stormbringer wrote:I think the Romans were certainly onto something with the feeding Christians to the lions.
Pilate was certainly a real historical figure; the evidence for him is indisputable as has been cited in this thread. The matter of his deciding to execute Jesus seems to have been his going beyond the letter of Roman law to reinforce Roman policy and avert riots and rebellion.
Of course, the motives weren't all nobility and concern for State policy. Pontius Pilate had good reason for not wanting to have a rebellion break out during his watch. His primary political sponsor in Rome had been Lucius Aelius Sejanus, the very ambitious commander of the Praetorian Guard under the Emperor Tiberius Caesar. Sejanus had for several years steadily plotted, blackmailed, and intimidated his way into executive power and got very far along in his plan to so politically isolate Tiberius that he would be able to position himself to succeed in a quiet palace revolution and install himself as the next emperor. But when his treason was discovered, Tiberius —who still wielded considerable influence with the Guard (or knew which officers to bribe and offer promotions to)— launched a bloody purge comparable to the Knight of the Long Knives (indeed, that event was the historical origin for the name of Hitler's similar purge in 1936) and Sejanus was executed in A.D. 31; about the same time Pilate was governor of Judea and was embroiled with the Jesus case.
So, you can see just why Pilate wanted to stay as invisible as possible. The last thing he wanted was a rebellion breaking out in his province which would bring him under the notice of the Imperial Eye.
Pilate did his job: uphold local and Roman law. The locals wanted Jesus executed, and Pilate had standing orders to assist them in this, as it broke no Roman laws, and as he was the only one with the authority to carry out an execution. (he may have had personal reasons to make as few ripples in the water at home in Rome as possible, but that is beside the topic)
About the cruelty of crucifixion:
It falls under my personal category of "Cruel but Usual Punishment" along with among other the emotional torture of a long wait perpetrated by those US states that practice capital punishment: It is constitutional because it only fulfills one of the two criteria af their law against cruel & unusual punishment.
By the same token a punishment that is unusual is constitutional if it is not cruel
David wrote:Pilot did indeed exist. He built a masive port area that was only recently discovered. It went under the sea in a earthquake or something, I can't remember why, but that port is considered one of the greatest building achievements of the time.
Ummm.... I haven't heard ANYTHING about this. Be careful what sources you take as truthful. AFAIK the only legitimate source that contains evidence of Pontius Pilates existance is a single inscription bearing the name Pontius Pilate.
Please send me a link to an academic site that details this harbour.
I'm not sure if any of you have posted this yet, but Jesus wasn't taken directly to the cross. He was first whipped with the Scourge, which is a whip with hooks on the end that tear out bits of your outer muscles and skin with every strike. Jesus was hit repeatedly with this.
Then he had to carry his own cross all the way to wherever it was they cruxified him, and he bled through his skin pores along the way.
This I read in an article about a year ago.
So he had to do that breathing thing, and his back would rub against the cross...a back that's been hit repeatedly with the Scourge.
Ouch is an understatement. Jesus may be fictional, but he was one tough guy, that's for sure.
Pontious washed his hands of it. That tells me enough that he thought it was a bad idea.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken --Tyler Durden, Fight Club
"Nothing, in religion or science, or philosophy . . .is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." -- Charles Fort
"Evolution keeps bumping upward to new levels of creativity and surprise. We're her latest gizmos, her latest toys. Our mission, should we choose to accept it, is to throw ourselves with all our might and mane into what the universe will do with us or without us--creating new forms, new flows, new ways of being, new ways of seeing." -- Howard Bloom
Shinova wrote:
Then he had to carry his own cross all the way to wherever it was they cruxified him, and he bled through his skin pores along the way.
Depends on what gospel you're reading. One has him carrying his own cross, the others have some guy helping him IIRC.
Of course, fundies take this to mean that half-way through the journey he put the cross down, someone carried it for him, and then he picked it back up near the end. No contradictions!!!
