SW vs ST: ZULU!!!!!!!

[Sparkticus]

For sure, just look at the Arena firefight and Geonosis battle scenes. The DC-17 delivers a lot of damage in these scenes, more than what we have seen an E-11 do in any case...

[Zoink]

They also have captured in a previus engagement 1,000 of the defender's best light weapons(E-11 Btaster Rifle, or Type III Phaser Rifle,of whatever).

Just on this fact, I think most of the groups are toast. If these blaster things are loaded and ready, they're easier to use than the rifles they actually had. Witht the Zulu positioning their guns on the high cliffs (as they did), with 1000 blaster bolts raining down on the camp every second.... I think the Stormies are toast (or feds, klingons) unless you give them some heavy weapons. The wooden buildings would be reduced to ash.

[Mike_6002]

Stormies, Simple they have crushed more simpler people with larger numbers, the walking wounded still can kill a few hundred a piece

Dead Zulu's....Stick a fork in them there done

[Sea Skimmer]

Stormtroopers followed by battle driod's

Zulu marksmanship included such concepts as aiming 45 degrees up in the air to aid the bullet on its flight. The Blasters will be no threat.

And the Zulu's could figure out how to use the blasters culdn't they. The had not used rifles before and they figured them out.

Wouldn't they miss if they fire the blasters 45 degrees up?

Yes.. Same with the rifles that historically had. The Zulu's treated them just like they did spears, thinking you have to really loft the bullets for them to go any distance.

Why do you think the Zulu's only killed around 20 of the defenders in the battle?

[Isolder74]

And the Zulu's could figure out how to use the blasters culdn't they. The had not used rifles before and they figured them out.

Wouldn't they miss if they fire the blasters 45 degrees up?

Yes.. Same with the rifles that historically had. The Zulu's treated them just like they did spears, thinking you have to really loft the bullets for them to go any distance.

Why do you think the Zulu's only killed around 20 of the defenders in the battle?

Good point just cause they have the weapons doesn't mean they know how to usethem correctally.

[CJvR]

Imperial Stormtroopers
Oh yeah, slaughtering natives is an imperial specialty...

Trade Federation Army
If a few of the advanced models were available they would more than hold their own, but if it was only standard models they would probably fail.

Rebel Army Troopers
Fairly decent troops, as long as the Zulus left their ATATs at home the rebs would hold them off.

Gungan Grand Army
No significant ranged weapons, except slings?!?! These guys are meat on the table... (Sushi anyone)

TOS Federation Security Division
Their red shirts are the main factor agains them... Also they are mainly ship security not a regular combat unit.

TNG Federation Security Division
Same as TOS, but also burdened by a ton of PC crap that would hamper their options.

Klingon Warrors
These guys, unlike the Gungans, have ranged weapons but they obviously haven't figured out how to use them... They would probably attack with swords as soon as they spotted the first Zulu, it would be glorious, stupid and insane. Later the Klingoffs would compose an opera about the heroic battle that would get even more of them killed.[/i]

[Typhonis 1]

Thing about Gungans is most likely there base will be underwater ,they are amphibious.So how will the Zulus reach it?" Wesa gonna see how longen theysa can be holden there breath"

[Lex]

Stormies are the only troops to stand a chance...well, the Rebel army would also make a good fight...the TF would get slaughtered, as the Fed's would get...it would the depend on how the klingons attacked, but if they wouldn't use their range weapons, they'd be lost for sure

[Zoink]

How about 100 stormies vs 1000 ewoks armed with blaster rifles with thousands more ewoks as canon fodder???

Their record isn't *that* good. Give the stormies all the support they would actually have for a planetary takeover, like heavy weapons, armor, air support, space support, etc, and they'd win. But I have yet to see a Storm Trooper that qualifies as an unbeatable elite super commando.

[Kuja]

How about 100 stormies vs 1000 ewoks armed with blaster rifles with thousands more ewoks as canon fodder???

How about STFU and adding to the thread?

Their record isn't *that* good.

Based on what? The movies? Bullshit. Read the books where people get nailed time and again and again by PO'd Stormies.

Give the stormies all the support they would actually have for a planetary takeover, like heavy weapons, armor, air support, space support, etc, and they'd win. But I have yet to see a Storm Trooper that qualifies as an unbeatable elite super commando.

We never said they were. We said they'd smack the Zulu down like nothing else.

[Zoink]

How about STFU and adding to the thread?

Not adding to the thread, just giving an example of the Storm Troopers fighting a technologically inferior race. You have failed to give an example of the Storm Troopers abilities when faced with such a situation: 10 to 1 odds in firepower along, with a total 40 to 1 odds in total numbers.

Based on what? The movies? Bullshit. Read the books where people get nailed time and again and again by PO'd Stormies.

The movies are canon.

[Kuja]

Not adding to the thread, just giving an example of the Storm Troopers fighting a technologically inferior race. You have failed to give an example of the Storm Troopers abilities when faced with such a situation: 10 to 1 odds in firepower along, with a total 40 to 1 odds in total numbers.

While you fail to give info to the contrary. Guess we're all screwed, huh?

The movies are canon.

Then watch R2 and Leia get nailed from 30 yards away with quick snapshots and no setup time. Watch the stormies plow their way through the Tantive IV's corridors, wiping out the Rebel Troopers and AVOID hitting the droids, which might have carried the plans. Watch how one Stormie coming through the elevator door into the detention hall, stepping over a dead comrade, misses Solo's head by INCHES before he ducks backwards. Watch how the Stormies consistantly, in ANH and ESB, herd targets towards destinations (the Falcon in ANH, Vader and the Falcon again in ESB)

And novels are canon as well.

[Failed Glory]

The movies are canon.

Then watch R2 and Leia get nailed from 30 yards away with quick snapshots and no setup time. Watch the stormies plow their way through the Tantive IV's corridors, wiping out the Rebel Troopers and AVOID hitting the droids, which might have carried the plans. Watch how one Stormie coming through the elevator door into the detention hall, stepping over a dead comrade, misses Solo's head by INCHES before he ducks backwards. Watch how the Stormies consistantly, in ANH and ESB, herd targets towards destinations (the Falcon in ANH, Vader and the Falcon again in ESB)

And novels are canon as well.

Watch Stormtroopers die enmasse in every one of your examples. Watch them let Han and Leia escape aboard the Falcon while they outnumber them some 100 to 1. Watch them fall to Ewoks. Watch them eat blaster in Cloud City while inflicting zero casualties.

And remember the order of canon. Novels are below the movies. Therefore stormtroopers are more accurately portrayed in the movies. Stylish, loyal, and capable, but a far cry from perfect soldiers.

[Lex]

well, read the Heir to the Empire trilogy, then u see how effective stormies really are! to the losses which have been taken at Hoth and in Cloud City, btw in the DS, the losses were caused by hero's, and the hero's always are superior in films. the point is: stormies have never been tested in a large ground battle(not that i would know)

[Zoink]

While you fail to give info to the contrary. Guess we're all screwed, huh?

But I did. Storm Troopers battle a technologically inferior enemy: the ewoks. The enemy's anti-personal weapons included bows, spears, and slings. A small handfull of rebel troopers had blasters (maybe 32).

The Zulus have the advantage of terrain, as the control the surrounding hills and cliffs, as the ewoks did.

In this example we have 1000 Zulus being armed with blasters, with an additional 3000 armed with spears vs about 100 Storm Troopers.

In the movie, the Zulus place guns on the cliffs (I'll assume the movie is relatively true) giving them the ability to fire into the camp. The difference in this case, the firepower of these snipers is increased a hundred-fold, with the added benefit that the energy blasts *should* be more accurate.

I have no doubt that the Stormies would fair the best, I just don't see each trooper killing 10 blaster wielding enemies + 30 others.

[Failed Glory]

well, read the Heir to the Empire trilogy, then u see how effective stormies really are! to the losses which have been taken at Hoth and in Cloud City, btw in the DS, the losses were caused by hero's, and the hero's always are superior in films. the point is: stormies have never been tested in a large ground battle(not that i would know)

As far as I'm concerned, the only SW books worth reading. I'm quite sure they would rock some Zulu ass, but as I've been told before, canon is canon and the order of canon is irrefutable.

Using that as the basis, Stormtroopers were fairly well defined in ANH, ESB, and ROTJ. As such, they are just that, troops. Dying in every scene possible, and whether you consider the only the Han, Leia, Luke, and Chewie as "character sheilded" or not, Stormtroopers are hardly as invincible as some would have you believe. They beat up some ill-equipped and scared Tantive IV fleet boys and Hoth regulars. Then they get their asses handed to them by Ewoks and small bands of rebels.

As for the books, I don't remember the Empire winning....in fact didn't Kardde's buddies give it to some stormies in that series you mention?

[Lex]

let the stormies charge, use TT's, attack with all they have and destroy isolated eclaves of the Zulus. with the stormies disciplin they should scare the zulus and use the confusion to make em take heavy losses

[Lex]

[quote="Failed Glory
As for the books, I don't remember the Empire winning....in fact didn't Kardde's buddies give it to some stormies in that series you mention?[/quote]

nah, Karrde's guys didnt really, they ambushed them with Luke and Lando..

but in the fallowing assault of Karrde's lsot base is shown how good stormies can act under a good command

[Kuja]

Watch Stormtroopers die enmasse in every one of your examples. Watch them let Han and Leia escape aboard the Falcon while they outnumber them some 100 to 1. Watch them fall to Ewoks. Watch them eat blaster in Cloud City while inflicting zero casualties.

And remember the order of canon. Novels are below the movies. Therefore stormtroopers are more accurately portrayed in the movies. Stylish, loyal, and capable, but a far cry from perfect soldiers.

More capable than you're willing to admit. They're able to watch their comrades die beside them and STILL continue herding the targets.

[Failed Glory]

More capable than you're willing to admit. They're able to watch their comrades die beside them and STILL continue herding the targets.

What is the motto for hiring new stormies?

"Join now! Herd rebels. Only A 1/5 Casualty Rate. Great Retirement Benefits and Credit Union "

The fact is, like you just admitted, they are dying! Psycho or not, what kind of useful trooper is dead? Anyone from the army, navy or air force want to answer that one? A enemy one.

[Isolder74]

Forgot to mention the 'preacher' and his daughter, though all he did was drop moral so I left him out cause only the feddies would really be affected by him. I suppose we could sustitute him which each sides version of him. Not a Jedi mind you but a religious pacifist. BTW what would the various sides do to the punk? After all he cost them 40 native levies.

[Kuja]

What is the motto for hiring new stormies?

Shove it. You think how they treat the treat the targets Vader wants alive the same way they treat the average Rebel? Re-watch the ANH opening.

The fact is, like you just admitted, they are dying! Psycho or not, what kind of useful trooper is dead? Anyone from the army, navy or air force want to answer that one? A enemy one.

Had they captured Leia and Luke, it would have been well worth the cost.

[Failed Glory]

Shove it. You think how they treat the treat the targets Vader wants alive the same way they treat the average Rebel? Re-watch the ANH opening.

Chill and relax, man. It's just a message board and that was just a joke.

As for ANH, they seemed to kill everyone else in the opening scene, though and nearly destroyed several droids. Maybe one of those pesky Rebels they offed might have known where the plans were?

Or maybe your interpretation of perfect Imperial aim in firefights is a little off the mark. As may be interpreted by later Stormtrooper scenes in ANH. They didn't come close to getting Han or Luke when the Falcon left Tatooine, now did they? Were they just "herding" them towards the Death Star then?

As for capturing Leia or Luke, the Stormtroopers didn't seem to come very close. If they are so accurate, why did it take 3 movies just to paralyze Leia (which was ridiculous female character stereotyping of the 70s, I think she wanted to be captured, just to face Vader) and then hit her in the arm and never hit another character?

[Kuja]

Chill and relax, man. It's just a message board and that was just a joke.

I have a very short fuse. Don't push me.

As for ANH, they seemed to kill everyone else in the opening scene, though and nearly destroyed several droids. Maybe one of those pesky Rebels they offed might have known where the plans were?

Ha ha ha, fuck off. If they went in assuming everyone was valuable alive, WTF were they supposed to do?

Or maybe your interpretation of perfect Imperial aim in firefights is a little off the mark. As may be interpreted by later Stormtrooper scenes in ANH. They didn't come close to getting Han or Luke when the Falcon left Tatooine, now did they? Were they just "herding" them towards the Death Star then?

A sudden chaotic firefight where Han ducks behind a landing strut and Chewie starts blasting away with the antipersonnel cannon. Will you stand there and plink or dive the hell out of the way?

As for capturing Leia or Luke, the Stormtroopers didn't seem to come very close. If they are so accurate, why did it take 3 movies just to paralyze Leia (which was ridiculous female character stereotyping of the 70s, I think she wanted to be captured, just to face Vader)

Again: Ha ha ha, fuck off.

and then hit her in the arm and never hit another character?

Another chaotic battle where the dimunitve Ewoks can suddenly pop out of the nearest brush with a stolen rifle and blast you. Yes, you'd run around at full height and blast anyone you see, won't you? No, you'll drop to the ground and wait for someone to run in front of you, then blast them. This is exactly what the pair of 'snipers' did to R2 and Leia. By this time, very few of them were left nearby, the majority having moved out to fight the ewoks and commandoes.

[Failed Glory]

I have a very short fuse. Don't push me.

Why? You think by being pushy others will fall into your fold? Just relax and try and accept other people's ideas. Maybe they aren't right, but I have yet to see many people on a message board change their minds mid-thread.

Ha ha ha, fuck off.

Once again, leave the insults at home. Unless you want to get into that kind of kinky shit.

If they went in assuming everyone was valuable alive, WTF were they supposed to do?

They used stun on Leia, now didn't they? I'm not saying it would be as effective, but come on, Occam's razor here: which is more likely? That Stormtroopers have perfect aim (not yet seen in any movie) or that they just didn't shoot a droid (seen).

As for your Ewok argument, I've heard it before. Stromtroopers died left and right, pure and simple. They dealt quite well with chaos (albeit their own chaos) aboard the Tantive IV.

Once again, Stromtroopers: an effective fighting force all-around, but far from perfect and further from the invincible fable you are making them out to be.