Imperial Star Destroyer vs. Tree

[Yogi]

The Star Wars Empire, after the events of A New Hope

vs.

The Jurai Empire, after the events of the Tenchi Muyo OVA

The continuity that I am using (continuity is very important in discussing the specific Tenchi universe) includes

1) The first and second Tenchi Muyo-Ryo Ohki OVA series
2) The Tenchi Muyo Manga
3) The Tenchi GXP TV show
4) The True Tenchi Novels (they're set in the OVA timeline as well)
5) The Tenchi 101 questions guide book (much of this book was included as extras in the last DVD of the boxed OVA DVD set)

Tsunami will not intefere on behalf of the Jurai Empire unless the Star Wars Empire maneges to deploy another Death Star. Even if Tsunami inteferes, she is restricted to her Spaceship form, and not her Goddess form. If the War drags on for more than 700 years, the Sasami will mature and Tsunami can manifest her spaceship form at any time she wants to.

The Jurai Empire cannot call upon the Galaxy Police for help, nor can they solicit help from Washu. The only non-Jurais allowed to intefere is Mihoshi, Yukinojo, and Ryoko. Ryoko may not manifest her Goddess form if she gets all three gems, though she may deploy her Light Hawk Wings.

Who wins?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The manga goes off on its own tangent at the same time the second OVA occurs. I don't think it can be used, as it's classified under its own continuity.

[Mr Bean]

*Cue Imperal March

The Jurria ships have strong hulls but no shields and VERY Short Range though they are decently(But not spectarly) Fast


Sooo Turkey Shoot due to the Range and FTL issues

[Kuja]

From what I've seen and read, the Imps would blast the Jurai six ways from Sunday.

[Yogi]

The manga goes off on its own tangent at the same time the second OVA occurs. I don't think it can be used, as it's classified under its own continuity.

There isn't any conflict between the two OVA series and the Manga. Plus GXP is definetly in continuity with the manga, and it's also consistent with the three other sources I listed from what I've heard.

And those other sources give us a LOT of interesting information.

To summerise the main points (note, the continuity is listed for all of them in case you insist on making a certain continuity invalid).

1) Galaxy Police standard equipment, even for people like Mihoshi, involves cubes that can warp reality. (OVA)
2) A direct hit with all canons from the Yukinojo at a ship shielded with three Light Hawk Wings dealt no damage (Manga).
3) The Light Hawk Wings are the weapons of the godesses themselves (True Tenchi Novels, implied from OVA and Manga). They work by multiplying the enemy's attack power (while on defense) or the enemy's defense power (while on attack) by zero (True Tenchi Novels). The only known person to defens against a Light Hawk Wing's attack was Kagato (OVA). No one has ever overcome a LHW defense (all three LHWs were on "attack" in the OVA).
4) Ryoko with one Gem is at least as powerful as Ayeka (OVA, Manga)
5) A Jurai Ship is stronger than Ryoko with one Gem (OVA)
6) Aeka maneged to withstand the event horizen of a Black Hole for a fee minets (OVA).
7) Zero is identical in powers to Ryoko (OVA)
Ryoko flew from the ground into Orbit in around one second (OVA).
9) Tenchi and Ryoko with one gem deflected a planet-busting explosion (Manga).
10) Tenchi easily overpowers the event horizen of a black hole (OVA, Manga)
11) One Jurai ship can strike abject terror into a fleet of over two hundred assorted pirate vessles (GXP).
12) Washu was found on someone's doorstep one day as a baby. She had her three gems with her (True Tenchi Novels).
13) Behind Tokimi, one can see the shadows of Washu and Tsunami (OVA).
14) Goddess Tsunami dispelled a Galaxy-busting explosion very casually (Manga, and that's why we're not using Godess Tsunami)
15) A Third Generation Jurai Battleship has three Light Hawk Wings (Manga)
16) Tsunami has Ten Light Hawk Wings (OVA)
17) The Gems hold Washu's powers, and only Ryoko can fully unleash them (101 Questions)
18) Washu has 12 LHW (101 Questions, True Tenchi)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

You know that in GXP it was a specific ship, right?

And the Ryoko flying to space in 1 sec: are you refering to the part where Zero teleported into space?

[Yogi]

You know that in GXP it was a specific ship, right?

And the Ryoko flying to space in 1 sec: are you refering to the part where Zero teleported into space?

It wasn't the ship, so much as the (ruthless) commander.

As for Zero, it shows her being drawn upwards by a force. She flew, not teleported.

BTW, I almost forgot

19) The aforementioned galaxy-busting explosion would be if all the Jurai shipts from a small fleew self destructed, "small fleet" meaning "whatever they could scrape up in one day's notice at most" (Manga)

[XaLEv]

Juraian warships are made of wood, and will therefore be unable to do anything against the Empire. They probably won't even be able to accelerate without being crushed, due to their weak building materials. Their observed capabilities are obviously wrong, as they are made of wood, and cannot do what we see them do.

[/deimos]

[Mr Bean]

Their observed capabilities are obviously wrong, as they are made of wood, and cannot do what we see them do.

And yet we see them do it, Obvious its either superwood and/or an illusion to make it look like its MADE of Wood

[Kuja]

Obvious its either superwood and/or an illusion to make it look like its MADE of Wood

So that's who the Krypton logging companies sold it all to...

[Ghost Rider]

But did they bathe it in yellow sun beams?

[data_link]

As much as I would like to give victiory to the Empire on this one... I don't think that they have any means of penetrating LHW. Besides, are you honestly going to argue that the Empire is more advanced than an empire where UNIVERSE-altering equipment is readily available to any two-bit mad scientist on every backwater planet in the galaxy?

[Yogi]

Actually, it's not so much that Washu has acess to universe-altering equipment . . .

The thing is that MIHOSHI has acess to a device that warps reality!! Granted, she can't use it very well. However, Washu demonstrated the true power of that device. And it's standard Galaxy Police issue to people like MIHOSHI!!

BTW, a Galaxy Police cruiser would be raped by an Jurai Warship worse than an Orc vs a Ring Wraith. (GXP)

[Larz]

The Jurian ships are made of wood and are controled by trees that act as computers. Also, when they do take damage they splinter like wood. Thus they are wood, just a super form of wood (can withstand re-entry episode 2 I believe of Tenchi Muyo). Just to clarrify the whole arguement about whether the ships are wood or not...

[Mr Bean]

Since we don't know exaclty what can do what to which(Unless one wants to aurgue that one is invurable from the other) then the Empries Redicuilius range advantage comes into play

[Deimos Anomaly]

Two hundred billion tons of TNT vs some stupid wooden ship.

Winner: The TNT.

Actually the Star Destroyers could defeat the Jurian fleet by (quite literally) adopting ram them until they give up tactics.

[His Divine Shadow]

As much as I would like to give victiory to the Empire on this one... I don't think that they have any means of penetrating LHW. Besides, are you honestly going to argue that the Empire is more advanced than an empire where UNIVERSE-altering equipment is readily available to any two-bit mad scientist on every backwater planet in the galaxy?

How is it universe altering?
As of know that seems kinda like a style over substance argument.

[data_link]

Two hundred billion tons of TNT vs some stupid wooden ship.

Winner: The TNT.

Actually the Star Destroyers could defeat the Jurian fleet by (quite literally) adopting ram them until they give up tactics.

Remember, this is no ordinary wood. You don't build battleships out of ordinary wood. If you're going to use the argument that SW beats TM because SW looks higher tech, then you have just validated trekkies primary argument for Star Trek beating Star Wars.

[data_link]

As much as I would like to give victiory to the Empire on this one... I don't think that they have any means of penetrating LHW. Besides, are you honestly going to argue that the Empire is more advanced than an empire where UNIVERSE-altering equipment is readily available to any two-bit mad scientist on every backwater planet in the galaxy?

How is it universe altering?
As of know that seems kinda like a style over substance argument.

My memory of Tenchi Muyo is more than a little fuzzy, so I may be getting the timelines mixed up, but I definately remember Washuu regularly creating alternate dimensions, turning people into animals, and generally messing up reality using just her holographic laptop. As for why equipment like this would give Jurai an advantage, consider the following. You can, using portable devices, create an arbitrary reigon of space in which the laws of physics are pretty much whatever you like. Even if your ships are inherently inferior (Jurai ships are pretty damned tough, although probably not on par with SW vessels, unless we account for unkown effects of using magical weapons on non-magical targets), you can simply bend the battlefield so that the conditions are sufficiently to your advantage that you can win. In the case of SW vessels, simply making it impossible for them to track you would be sufficient, and we know that Jurai's reality-warping capabilites are at least that good. Interestingly, Star Trek vessels would have a better chance against Jurai ships, because their sensors are designed to account for possible alternate dimensions, whereas Star Wars sensors are not.

[Darth_Shinji]

I've heard that Ryo-oki could destroy a world... and that a juria ship is equal to her. Does anyone know if this is true?

Other than that, I"m going with Jurai, they seem rather powerful.... and people, yes they have wooden ships.... with sheilds, so why does wood matter? (Not to mention that this wood has survived unprotected by a shield in reentry as mentioned, and its basaicaly the children of a goddess).

[Mr Bean]

In the case of SW vessels, simply making it impossible for them to track you would be sufficient, and we know that Jurai's reality-warping capabilites are at least that good. Interestingly, Star Trek vessels would have a better chance against Jurai ships, because their sensors are designed to account for possible alternate dimensions, whereas Star Wars sensors are not.

Your kidding right? The contiditions to prevent the tracking of ships by SW Sensors would be the same to Destroy the avarage ship and heavly damage even the best shielded ones(SW have Sensors for every occsaions remeber? Radioincs, Blackmass, IR, Subspace, Hyperwave)

The problem is until we have Strength numbers on Juri Hull's we can't realy make up our mind, The Empire as I've said has a rediciously large Range Advantage(Try five to eighty free shots before Juri ships are in range and thats each gun emplacement)

[data_link]

In the case of SW vessels, simply making it impossible for them to track you would be sufficient, and we know that Jurai's reality-warping capabilites are at least that good. Interestingly, Star Trek vessels would have a better chance against Jurai ships, because their sensors are designed to account for possible alternate dimensions, whereas Star Wars sensors are not.

Your kidding right? The contiditions to prevent the tracking of ships by SW Sensors would be the same to Destroy the avarage ship and heavly damage even the best shielded ones(SW have Sensors for every occsaions remeber? Radioincs, Blackmass, IR, Subspace, Hyperwave)

The problem is until we have Strength numbers on Juri Hull's we can't realy make up our mind, The Empire as I've said has a rediciously large Range Advantage(Try five to eighty free shots before Juri ships are in range and thats each gun emplacement)

I have no doubt of Star Wars's superior sensor capabilities in ordinary space-time. I have no doubt that the amount of energy required to jam SW sensors is vastly greater than that required to jam ST sensors. But this is not a case of jamming. This is a case of altering reality itself. Alternate dimensions, warped realities, and spatial anomalies are encountered regularly by ST vessels, whereas not only do Star Wars ships not encounter them, but being Warships instead of armed science vessels, they wouldn't even have a department for dealing with that. SW sensors would not be able to deal with reality-warping technology not because of sensor inferiority, but because they simply weren't designed to deal with alternate dimensions where the normal laws of physics do not apply. It's the same reason why ISDs can't detect ships attached to their hull - not because of sensor inferiority, but because they weren't designed to do it. ST sensors are because their "warships" are in fact glorified armed science vessels - so even if their sensors are inferior (which they are), because they were designed to deal with the possibilty of reality itself changing, they will be able to deal with it while SW sensors will not. Now of course if you get an imperial science vessel in the area, then you would have a point.

[Mr Bean]

It's the same reason why ISDs can't detect ships attached to their hull - not because of sensor inferiority, but because they weren't designed to do it. ST sensors are because their "warships" are in fact glorified armed science vessels - so even if their sensors are inferior (which they are), because they were designed to deal with the possibilty of reality itself changing, they will be able to deal with it while SW sensors will not. Now of course if you get an imperial science vessel in the area, then you would have a point.

Noo your missing the point, That a Know Blindspot on the Hull, It has nothing to do with Detecting Ships at Light-Hour Ranges(Somthing Juri Ships lack, Half Light second is the greatest demostrated range for thier sensors) the point is Imperal Warships have all the Sensors of the Science Vessels but none of the "extras" that a science vessel would need like massive contatment fields and methods of contating and retriving samples

The Point is you have to demosrate how they could use Reality Warping to hide thier ships AND that they also know about Subspace and Hyperwave Sensos, niether of which they have ever encoutered before and leave no detectable traces unless you know what your looking for

[Yogi]

In the Tenchi Manga, Yukinojo was scanning ships at multiple light-years away and other ships were demonstrated to have similar abilities. Unless Jurai ships are suddenly inferior to GP vessles (they're not) Jurai has FTL sensors.

In any case, this is a bit of a moot point since the Jurai ships are armed with Light Hawk Wings, which are nothing short of the weapons the Goddesses use when they decide to manifest moral form. They are essencially defined as un-breachable by those who define reality.

The only thing that came close to stopping it was when the Souja, made by the universe's greatest scientist, piloted by the second greatest scientist after he had spent 5,000 years studying three gems that hold the secret to the Light Hawk Wings, and had maneged to build some imatations himself, deflected an attack by Light Hawk Wings by a heavily damaged Jurai ship being controled by a boy who had never done anything of the sort before. Unless you didn't catch it, this is not your standard performance for Light Hawk Wings.

Tenchi accidentaly slicing the aformentioned ship in half with ONE sweep of his sword (A manifestation of the LHW) is a better comparison.

The problem with Jurai is not that they'd loose in a fight, but that they simply don't have a lot of theit invincible LHW warships, especially after the fight with Ryoko. Hence, they'd be hard pressed to defend all their territory at once.