Ive made an animation of the Republic LTL cannon shot from the trailer.
From what I see, in the first two frames the cannon is already starting to recoil even before the explosive effect from the barrel comes out. This to me confirms that their is an invisible c portion or "containment" beam.
As the bolt exits out watch closely as the cannon movemen follows perfectly with the path of the bolt further confirming the containment/invisible beam portion of the system.
Last edited by Icehawk on 2005-03-11 02:21am, edited 3 times in total.
"The Cosmos is expanding every second everyday, but their minds are slowly shrinking as they close their eyes and pray." - MC Hawking "It's like a kids game. A morbid, blood-soaked Tetris game..." - Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs)
I'm not 100% sure that the visible "bolt" is tracking with the barrel. Its kinda hard to tell from the angle, though. For one thing, it looks like the angle of the bolt looks like it shifts more sharply than it should if it were "tracking" with the barrel. In fact, it sort of looks like the bolt is "curving" to the side, which seems odd to me. But as I said, I'm not 100% sure yet either way.
The angle is kind of bad to tell whether or not the bolt appears "after" the recoil (not that the bolt really significes much in any event), because that weird gassy explosion thingy sortt of obscures things.
Amusingly enough, I believe when that same bolt hits the Separatist ship, one can make out what appear to be "ammunition belts" feeding into the guns.
Connor MacLeod wrote:I'm not 100% sure that the visible "bolt" is tracking with the barrel. Its kinda hard to tell from the angle, though. For one thing, it looks like the angle of the bolt looks like it shifts more sharply than it should if it were "tracking" with the barrel. In fact, it sort of looks like the bolt is "curving" to the side, which seems odd to me. But as I said, I'm not 100% sure yet either way.
Does not surprise me in the least. Observe.
Note how the turbolaser does not follow a straight line path. Here is the sequence in slow motion.
the TESB isnt as problematic IMHO for the simple reason we don't see the barrel of the gun tracking like we do here. So the TESB TL could very well be a beam weapon (esp since we have damage before contact examples to reinforce that from the same movie and same scene as well.)_
Thats the two frame shot just before the first frame of the blue explosive effect comes out of the barrel. Its pretty clear the recoil starts at this point as evidenced by those two thick cables jumping up off their resting spot on the gun and the movement of the control panel and the trooper.
"The Cosmos is expanding every second everyday, but their minds are slowly shrinking as they close their eyes and pray." - MC Hawking "It's like a kids game. A morbid, blood-soaked Tetris game..." - Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs)
And for that matter, in the ST-V-SW context, I guess warsies can stop saying that the federation's engineers suck because they use force fields a lot... Clearly not as much as the Republic.
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This animation starts on the first frame of the disappearence of the explosive effect. IMO it looks pretty clear that the movement of the gun and the bolt are in sync with eachother.
"The Cosmos is expanding every second everyday, but their minds are slowly shrinking as they close their eyes and pray." - MC Hawking "It's like a kids game. A morbid, blood-soaked Tetris game..." - Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs)
Wha?? Look at the dark grey line on the floor to the right of the trooper. The camera does move but the gun its self is clearly moving as well when you use that line as a reference point.
"The Cosmos is expanding every second everyday, but their minds are slowly shrinking as they close their eyes and pray." - MC Hawking "It's like a kids game. A morbid, blood-soaked Tetris game..." - Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs)
Seriously, that gunport design is asking for it. I wonder how many Venators are going to be destroyed by 200 gigaton internal explosions when some trooper tries to fire too far off axis with that rig.
And why is a clone manning the guns?
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NecronLord wrote:Seriously, that gunport design is asking for it. I wonder how many Venators are going to be destroyed by 200 gigaton internal explosions when some trooper tries to fire too far off axis with that rig.
I would be fairly certain that the guns are restricted from ever turning so as to hit the sides. Not to mention that those guns aren't the size of the quad turbolasers on the Acclamator. You've seen the main, ISD-style (in arrangement, not looks, they're twin barrel) batteries on the Venators, correct?
And why is a clone manning the guns?
Because George Lucas is crazy? We found this out on the spoiler thread ahile ago. Annoying.
Thats the two frame shot just before the first frame of the blue explosive effect comes out of the barrel. Its pretty clear the recoil starts at this point as evidenced by those two thick cables jumping up off their resting spot on the gun and the movement of the control panel and the trooper.
Okay, so there is apparently some sort of "recoil", but I don't see why this neccesarily proves we're dealing with a containment beam or "invisible" porttion (because of the rest of my post) For example, when Han fires on Vader in TESB, we see recoil before the visible bolt, but its not firing a beam weapon (mainly because of when the bolt appears, but also because the energy of a massless beam with any noticable recoil would easily be in the hundreds of megajoules range.. which is generally hard to reconcile with most blaster examples.)
Vympel wrote:I would be fairly certain that the guns are restricted from ever turning so as to hit the sides.
In that case, I'm going to have to mock the republic for making a gun on a starship with a 20 degree firing arc on the XY plane. No wonder the Empire changed this design by ANH.
Not to mention that those guns aren't the size of the quad turbolasers on the Acclamator.
So that nails the idea of those guns being light turbolasers then?
You've seen the main, ISD-style (in arrangement, not looks, they're twin barrel) batteries on the Venators, correct?
Those I would assume to be HTLs.
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Icehawk wrote:Ive made an animation of the Republic LTL cannon shot from the trailer.
Hey Icehawk, look at that animation closely. Notice that the tiny gun-barrel thing in front of the gunner follows the bolt EXACTLY, and almost looks like its steering it to a target of opportunity?
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Vympel wrote:I would be fairly certain that the guns are restricted from ever turning so as to hit the sides.
In that case, I'm going to have to mock the republic for making a gun on a starship with a 20 degree firing arc on the XY plane. No wonder the Empire changed this design by ANH.
Note that the Devastator had a similar weapon port on the gun station that tracked the droids' escape pod in the opening minutes of ANH.
Last edited by Rogue 9 on 2005-03-11 04:02am, edited 1 time in total.
This animation starts on the first frame of the disappearence of the explosive effect. IMO it looks pretty clear that the movement of the gun and the bolt are in sync with eachother.
Not really. The bolt is still clearly "off center" - you can see the angle of the bolt shifting rather easily, and its not shifting in the way one might expect it to if the "bolt" and barrel were "in line" as it were. Rather, the bolt is clearly off to one side (and not firing off axis - the "bolt" would still be moving at an angle if that were the case.)
In fact, the apparent "curve" of the bolt looks even more pronounced to me when you watch it go bac k and forth like that.
Icehawk wrote:Ive made an animation of the Republic LTL cannon shot from the trailer.
Hey Icehawk, look at that animation closely. Notice that the tiny gun-barrel thing in front of the gunner follows the bolt EXACTLY, and almost looks like its steering it to a target of opportunity?
NecronLord wrote:In that case, I'm going to have to mock the republic for making a gun on a starship with a 20 degree firing arc on the XY plane. No wonder the Empire changed this design by ANH.
Actually, going by the movie AND the novel/script, they still had guns like that on the Death STar
So that nails the idea of those guns being light turbolasers then?
They may not even be turbolasers. Its not as if every single glowy pulse we see in Star Wars has to be a massless beam weapon (or a particle beam, or a missile, or whatnot.) Anyhow, the point is, we see alot of glowy pulse like things.
Vympel wrote:I would be fairly certain that the guns are restricted from ever turning so as to hit the sides.
In that case, I'm going to have to mock the republic for making a gun on a starship with a 20 degree firing arc on the XY plane. No wonder the Empire changed this design by ANH.
Note that the Devastator had a similar weapon port on the gun station that tracked the droids' escape pod in the opening minutes of ANH.
I'll have to check ANH, but I was pretty certain that was an external gun.
EDIT: Yeah, I'm almost certain thats not the same as this gun in the trailer. For one thing if it were as close to the gunners (which we see in the screen talking) then thats a pretty fricking tiny gun. In other words, they're too far away from the "gun" for it to be inside.
Further, the novelization makes it clear that that gun had computerized fire control, which matches with it being an external gun being viewed from a fire control station some distance away (We might be looking at a viewport and/or a monitor. Kinda hard to say.)
Last edited by Connor MacLeod on 2005-03-11 04:09am, edited 1 time in total.
Rogue 9 wrote:Note that the Devastator had a similar weapon port on the gun station that tracked the droids' escape pod in the opening minutes of ANH.
It was external. Hence why I meant it had been changed.
Furthermore, the Death Star gun could traverse 90 degrees on the Z axis, and 360 on the XY plane, giving it a comparatively huge field of fire.
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NecronLord wrote:Furthermore, the Death Star gun could traverse 90 degrees on the Z axis, and 360 on the XY plane, giving it a comparatively huge field of fire.
Any chance it's projectile based or particle? Is there reference to what type of gun this would be? It's blue and has smoke, not the same colour of the bolt smoke but smoke effect (DS TL have some greenish stuff vent around the barrels).
