LTL Cannon shot analysis (from ROTS trailer)

[Rogue 9]

So that nails the idea of those guns being light turbolasers then?

They may not even be turbolasers. Its not as if every single glowy pulse we see in Star Wars has to be a massless beam weapon (or a particle beam, or a missile, or whatnot.) Anyhow, the point is, we see alot of glowy pulse like things.

You know what I'm suddenly reminded of? Clicky 1. Clicky 2.

In that case, I'm going to have to mock the republic for making a gun on a starship with a 20 degree firing arc on the XY plane. No wonder the Empire changed this design by ANH.

Note that the Devastator had a similar weapon port on the gun station that tracked the droids' escape pod in the opening minutes of ANH.

I'll have to check ANH, but I was pretty certain that was an external gun.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm almost certain thats not the same as this gun in the trailer. For one thing if it were as close to the gunners (which we see in the screen talking) then thats a pretty fricking tiny gun. In other words, they're too far away from the "gun" for it to be inside.

Further, the novelization makes it clear that that gun had computerized fire control, which matches with it being an external gun being viewed from a fire control station some distance away (We might be looking at a viewport and/or a monitor. Kinda hard to say.)

Well, it was obviously a point defense cannon while this one is just as obviously not, so it could get away with being smaller. *Shrug*

[NecronLord]

The one that looks like this.

Apologies for not being able to find a proper screenshot.

[Connor MacLeod]

Any chance it's projectile based or particle? Is there reference to what type of gun this would be? It's blue and has smoke, not the same colour of the bolt smoke but smoke effect (DS TL have some greenish stuff vent around the barrels).

The smoke might be waste gasses (we've seen that with blasters and such as well) and unrelated to the weapon's nature (Same with the recoil)

It might be a projectile or a partticle beam though, since ion cannons and concussion missile/proton torpedoes all exhibit that 'glowy bolt' effect nonsense as well. Noone has to say that all glowy pulses have to mean the exact same weapon.

Plus, as noted, the Separatist guns appear to have ammo feeds, which would strongly hint at projectiles (esp with the rumors floating about IIRC.) And its possible that such weapons might be employed to overwhelm particle shielding under the right circumstances. The use of projectile weapons might also be a factor dictating such a close range, in fact. (since projectiles are easier to shoot down than a massless beam or a particle beam.)

[Connor MacLeod]

The one that looks like this.

Apologies for not being able to find a proper screenshot.

The Deaht STar has multiple kinds of weapons ya know (both from visuasl and from the novel and radio drama.) The DS, like this ship (and presumably the Death Stars) had multiple kinds of weapons, which might dictate different setups for one reason or another.

Anyhow, I'm not sure those internal small guns had any better fire arcs either (I dont recall seeing the windows, but they weren't that big.) And even if there were bigger "ports", that doesn't improve their visual arcs all that much (not enough to make them better than externally mounted light guns like we see on the Devastator.)

[Icehawk]

In fact, the apparent "curve" of the bolt looks even more pronounced to me when you watch it go bac k and forth like that.

Yes, and the curving of the bolt seems to match up pretty closely with the movement of the gun. I see know that its not *exactly* perfect inline with the main barrel, but its quite close and so it seems like there is some kind of tracking going on.

[NecronLord]

The Deaht STar has multiple kinds of weapons ya know (both from visuasl and from the novel and radio drama.) The DS, like this ship (and presumably the Death Stars) had multiple kinds of weapons, which might dictate different setups for one reason or another.

Yes. And thankfully, this type of mounting isn't one of them.

Anyhow, I'm not sure those internal small guns had any better fire arcs either (I dont recall seeing the windows, but they weren't that big.) And even if there were bigger "ports", that doesn't improve their visual arcs all that much (not enough to make them better than externally mounted light guns like we see on the Devastator.)

Of course not. Nor are they a match for the mountings seen on Trade Federation ships.

[Connor MacLeod]

You know what I'm suddenly reminded of? Clicky 1. Clicky 2.

Well we already know projectiles tend to look like blaster/laser/turbolaser bolts anyhow. And tehre is the bowcaster and Zam Wessel's rifle in AOTC (to say nothing of the "projectile" reference for blasters frfom the AOTC novelization.)

Well, it was obviously a point defense cannon while this one is just as obviously not, so it could get away with being smaller. *Shrug*

Smaller than the primary turrets, yeah. But not that small if they were close up.

[Connor MacLeod]

In fact, the apparent "curve" of the bolt looks even more pronounced to me when you watch it go bac k and forth like that.

Yes, and the curving of the bolt seems to match up pretty closely with the movement of the gun. I see know that its not *exactly* perfect inline with the main barrel, but its quite close and so it seems like there is some kind of tracking going on.

"pretty close" isn't quite good enough for the "massless beam" argument (or the containment beam for that matter.. what would it be containing anyhow? And if it could contain it, why not just use that "beam" itself as a weapon.)

At best, it would probably be somethign along the lines of what I am guessing Wayne is hinting at.

[NecronLord]

Again, this gunport thing reminds me of a ship's cannon from the age of sail. Totally anacronistic. On the plus side, we can assume that the thing does have an actual door that closes over that force field gap.

[Rogue 9]

Again, this gunport thing reminds me of a ship's cannon from the age of sail. Totally anacronistic.

Yeah, that's kind of obvious.

[Icehawk]

"pretty close" isn't quite good enough for the "massless beam" argument (or the containment beam for that matter.. what would it be containing anyhow? And if it could contain it, why not just use that "beam" itself as a weapon.)

I see what you mean. Well the Covanent in the Halo novels use some kind of electromagnetic containment fields to guide there exotic plasma to target. It could be a similar type of system here.

Either that or its a physical projectile being guided by a small tractor beam.

[Connor MacLeod]

Yes. And thankfully, this type of mounting isn't one of them.

ACtually it is. Re-check ANH. The ports the DS1 guns fire out of in ANH are not much larger than the ones in the trailer. In fact, I believe the trailer "gun ports" are in fact larger. (of course, they're shaped differently, but still..)

Of course not. Nor are they a match for the mountings seen on Trade Federation ships.

Trade Federation (and the other separatist ships, judging by this and the other trailer, as well as spoiler pics) seem to mount quad turrets. The VEnators appear to mount dual turrets. Go figure.

[Connor MacLeod]

"pretty close" isn't quite good enough for the "massless beam" argument (or the containment beam for that matter.. what would it be containing anyhow? And if it could contain it, why not just use that "beam" itself as a weapon.)

I see what you mean. Well the Covanent in the Halo novels use some kind of electromagnetic containment fields to guide there exotic plasma to target. It could be a similar type of system here.

Either that or its a physical projectile being guided by a small tractor beam.

I'm betting more on the latter than the former, given the goofiness of most definitions of "plasma" weapons (and I'm not sure that Halo "covenant" plasma weapon idea is very sensible either.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Its also possible that instead of a tractor beam, the gun is transmitting "guidance" data to the projectile/bolt via some sort of signal.. something like a "wire guided" missile or torpedo, I think, or maybe laser guideance.. Maybe the guidance data fed to the projectile is linked to the tracking of the barrel.

[Tribun]

Furthermore, the Death Star gun could traverse 90 degrees on the Z axis, and 360 on the XY plane, giving it a comparatively huge field of fire.

Which gun?

You mean this one?

[Vympel]

I love those guns.

[Star-Blighter]

In fact, the apparent "curve" of the bolt looks even more pronounced to me when you watch it go bac k and forth like that.

Yes, and the curving of the bolt seems to match up pretty closely with the movement of the gun. I see know that its not *exactly* perfect inline with the main barrel, but its quite close and so it seems like there is some kind of tracking going on.

"pretty close" isn't quite good enough for the "massless beam" argument (or the containment beam for that matter.. what would it be containing anyhow? And if it could contain it, why not just use that "beam" itself as a weapon.)

At best, it would probably be somethign along the lines of what I am guessing Wayne is hinting at.

Thats also assuming these guns don't have some method of off-axis beam direction such as on smaller fightercraft (the weird EM strips on the TIE lasers). The ISD in particular has guns near the hangar that look almost like dishes in design (with the turbolaser in the center of the dish). These guns can fire off-axis of the barrel.

The bolt itself is so hard to fucking make out with all the recoil and shit , that I wouldn't wan't to try and Eye-ball it. Either it's another example of c propabating turbolasers (not a bad thing), or it's an example of making Ion cannons/railguns/missles have that bolt look (also not a bad thing, it supports aditional weapons on the Deathstar).

[Connor MacLeod]

Thats also assuming these guns don't have some method of off-axis beam direction such as on smaller fightercraft (the weird EM strips on the TIE lasers). The ISD in particular has guns near the hangar that look almost like dishes in design (with the turbolaser in the center of the dish). These guns can fire off-axis of the barrel.

I already covered the "off-axis" bit. It doesn't mesh with what can be seen in the clip (and the pictures provided.)

The bolt itself is so hard to fucking make out with all the recoil and shit , that I wouldn't wan't to try and Eye-ball it. Either it's another example of c propabating turbolasers (not a bad thing), or it's an example of making Ion cannons/railguns/missles have that bolt look (also not a bad thing, it supports aditional weapons on the Deathstar).

I believe thats what has already been suggested in this thread.

[Connor MacLeod]

Furthermore, the Death Star gun could traverse 90 degrees on the Z axis, and 360 on the XY plane, giving it a comparatively huge field of fire.

Which gun?

You mean this one?

yes.

[Darth Wong]

The guns on the DS were in rotating enclosures. The guns in the ROTS seem to be firing out the fixed sidewall of the ship, and they would have an extremely limited firing arc. They can't be the same as the ISD point-defense guns of the original trilogy.

It's also worth noting that one of the Hyperspace member-exclusive production notes specifically mentioned projectile weapons complete with shell casings. If this survives to the final cut, it will be quite clear that these are in fact projectile weapons. It may be that ships of this era rely entirely on ray shielding because projectile weapons had fallen out of use, and so somebody had the bright idea of using projectile weapons which would punch through the rayshield-only defenses of the era.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Conner, could you please stop quoting pictures?

[Tribun]

Btw. they still fire blue bolts, but I've also seen some green ones.

[Connor MacLeod]

The guns on the DS were in rotating enclosures.

REally? I must have missed that. Where was it from?

]
The guns in the ROTS seem to be firing out the fixed sidewall of the ship, and they would have an extremely limited firing arc. They can't be the same as the ISD point-defense guns of the original trilogy.

They might project out the sides some more in non-broadside confrontations. Up close like that, ,keeping them recessed seems like a good idea.

It's also worth noting that one of the Hyperspace member-exclusive production notes specifically mentioned projectile weapons complete with shell casings. If this survives to the final cut, it will be quite clear that these are in fact projectile weapons. It may be that ships of this era rely entirely on ray shielding because projectile weapons had fallen out of use, and so somebody had the bright idea of using projectile weapons which would punch through the rayshield-only defenses of the era.

That';s what I th ought of too. When that bolt hits the Separatist ship, you can apparently see what appear to be "shell casings" on some sort of ammo feed or rack near the guns.

[The Original Nex]

And why is a clone manning the guns?

Eh, I can believe that Imperial Gunners are clone too like Stormies. THey just changed outfits by ANH.

[Star-Blighter]

Thats also assuming these guns don't have some method of off-axis beam direction such as on smaller fightercraft (the weird EM strips on the TIE lasers). The ISD in particular has guns near the hangar that look almost like dishes in design (with the turbolaser in the center of the dish). These guns can fire off-axis of the barrel.

I already covered the "off-axis" bit. It doesn't mesh with what can be seen in the clip (and the pictures provided.)

The bolt itself is so hard to fucking make out with all the recoil and shit , that I wouldn't wan't to try and Eye-ball it. Either it's another example of c propabating turbolasers (not a bad thing), or it's an example of making Ion cannons/railguns/missles have that bolt look (also not a bad thing, it supports aditional weapons on the Deathstar).

I believe thats what has already been suggested in this thread.

Well, I'm not a physics expert, but its difficult to tell what angle the bolt is at relative to the gun barrel. But if your eagle eyes see something I don't, more power to yah.