Could Mace Windu and Friends actually convict Palpatine?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:33am

Old Plympto wrote:
Crown wrote:There is only one thing missing from the trailer .... Dooku, Count.
He's there, you can see him duelling with Anakin somewhere on the trailer.

I know, but ther's no 'presense' of him, and if it is one thing that Christopher Lee has, it's presense.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:37am

What crime does Mace think he's going to arrest Palpatine for? Being a Sith Lord? I'm assuming he doesn't know about Palpatine being behind the seperatists, so, what crime has he committed?

To me it seems like the ones in need of arrest are the jedi in that scene. They've almost certainly broken into the residence of the Head of State and murdered his guards because he has a different religion. Seems like Palpatine has a perfectly good right to self defence there.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:40am

NecronLord wrote:What crime does Mace think he's going to arrest Palpatine for? Being a Sith Lord? I'm assuming he doesn't know about Palpatine being behind the seperatists, so, what crime has he committed?

To me it seems like the ones in need of arrest are the jedi in that scene. They've almost certainly broken into the residence of the Head of State and murdered his guards because he has a different religion. Seems like Palpatine has a perfectly good right to self defence there.

Spoiler;

Arresting him for being a traitor to the Republic, for being a Sith Lord, and for betraying Republic armies by also being in charge of the Sepratists and feeding them information.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:42am

How is being a Sith Lord a crime? Humm. Not much freedom of concience in the Republic clearly.

EDIT: And even should they know, I doubts any charges they could have against him would hold up in a court of law. They have a religion that has his side as the devil. All evidence from them would be thrown out by any reasonable judge. Given Mace's lack of telling Palpatine what he's charged with, one could easily make a damn good case for his fearing Jedi victimisation.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:46am

NecronLord wrote:How is being a Sith Lord a crime? Humm. Not much freedom of concience in the Republic clearly.

Spoiler.

Because he is the Sith Lord that is leading the Sepratists you dimwit. He is compromising the safety of the Republic by feeding the Sepratists Army with classified intel and is playing both sides agains the middle. He has started a false war to rest power away from the Senate, and he has no intention of giving it back.

NecronLord wrote:EDIT: And even so, I doubts any charges they could have against him would hold up in a court of law. They have a religion that has his side as the devil. All evidence from them would be thrown out by any reasonable judge.

Have you been keeping up with the spoilers? Fuck that, have you watched the fucking movies?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-11 11:48am

Did you forget that the Sith are evil? That they fought against the Republic and the Jedi several times in the past 25000 years, at times nearly exterminating both parties?

It'd be akin to discovering that Hitler had been serving public office in Argentina in the 1950s...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:50am

Crown wrote:Because he is the Sith Lord that is leading the Sepratists you dimwit. He is compromising the safety of the Republic by feeding the Sepratists Army with classified intel and is playing both sides agains the middle. He has started a false war to rest power away from the Senate, and he has no intention of giving it back.

Yes. How do they learn this?

Have you been keeping up with the spoilers? Fuck that, have you watched the fucking movies?

No. I haven't. The point is, what reasonable court would actually accept their evidence?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:50am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Did you forget that the Sith are evil? That they fought against the Republic and the Jedi several times in the past 25000 years, at times nearly exterminating both parties?

It'd be akin to discovering that Hitler had been serving public office in Argentina in the 1950s...

I'm talking about law, not how much it would do Palpatine's reputation.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:52am

NecronLord wrote:Yes. How do they learn this?

Do you want spoilers?

No. I haven't. The point is, what reasonable court would actually accept their evidence?

Funny you should ask, see above.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:53am

NecronLord wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Did you forget that the Sith are evil? That they fought against the Republic and the Jedi several times in the past 25000 years, at times nearly exterminating both parties?

It'd be akin to discovering that Hitler had been serving public office in Argentina in the 1950s...
I'm talking about law, not how much it would do Palpatine's reputation.

He's the head/leader of the Sepratist's, what more do you need?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:54am

Crown wrote:Do you want spoilers?

I don't much care either way. Do they have evidence that can be corroborated by a source other than the Jedi themselves?

Funny you should ask, see above.

It's rather akin to a bunch of christian bishops arresting a European Muslim leader for plotting against them, with the backup that, "of course they're our enemies," they tried to invade Europe a few centuries back

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 11:55am

Crown wrote:He's the head/leader of the Sepratist's, what more do you need?

Could they actually prove this in a fair trial, with witnesses who aren't jedi?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 11:57am

NecronLord wrote:
Crown wrote:He's the head/leader of the Sepratist's, what more do you need?
Could they actually prove this in a fair trial, with witnesses who aren't jedi?

This is hilarious, do you want spoilers, yes or no?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2005-03-11 11:58am

Can this be split from this thread? It's really hardly about the trailer itself...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 12:01pm

Done and... Crap. One post too many.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 12:03pm

NecronLord wrote:Done and... Crap. One post too many.

YOU SON OF A BITCH YOU WILL PAY IN BLOOD FOR MISPLACING MY POST!!!!!!!!

hehe

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 12:04pm

Crown wrote:This is hilarious, do you want spoilers, yes or no?

Yes. Spoil away.

The question isn't whether or not he deserves imprisonment, it's whether or not they could actually make charges against him stick in a court that wasn't heavily slanted in their favour. Of course, given that according to C'Boath's clone, the Jedi are Police, Judge, Jury and Excecutioner, it might not be necessery.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 12:09pm

NecronLord wrote:
Crown wrote:This is hilarious, do you want spoilers, yes or no?
Yes. Spoil away.

The question isn't whether or not he deserves imprisonment, it's whether or not they could actually make charges against him stick in a court that wasn't heavily slanted in their favour.

***SPOILER WARNING***
Just in case people are wondering into this thread unprepared.

The answer is no. The spoiler is; Mace beats Palpy to the ground, and then realises that any trial would be a joke since Palpy controls all the courts and laws and then determines that he must kill Palpy. Only Anakin needs Palpy alive to learn how to stop Padme from dying, so he attacks Mace. Meanwhile Palpy staged the whole thing so that he could record it and then use it as evidence as the Jedi betraying the Republic. After all to the populous at large, it is a Jedi at the head of the Sepratist army, not a Sith.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 12:11pm

He broardcast himself vaulting over his desk and chopping Jedi Masters apart with a red lightsabre, and people still don't think he's a Sith Lord?

So no, they couldn't actually arrest him, and were just being foolish by even trying?

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 12:16pm

NecronLord wrote:He broardcast himself vaulting over his desk and chopping Jedi Masters apart with a red lightsabre, and people still don't think he's a Sith Lord?

He stops the recording at some point before that I think, but even if he doesn't a bit of creative editing and viola! Anakin rescues him

NecronLord wrote:So no, they couldn't actually arrest him, and were just being foolish by even trying?

I think they *could* arrest him if it is in their power, ANH: Jedi's were the guardians of peace and justice, but the trial would be a joke since Nute Gunray got off, what chances would they have agains the Chancellor? Hence why Mace just decides to kill him.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2005-03-11 12:19pm

I wasn't just talking about a Republic court mind. I meant do they have any evidence a hypothetical neutral one would accept.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2005-03-11 12:20pm

NecronLord wrote:I wasn't just talking about a Republic court mind. I meant do they have any evidence a hypothetical neutral one would accept.

Unknown at this point.

Fw 190 · Post by **Fw 190** » 2005-03-11 04:12pm

Question: Could Palpatine be tried by ordinary citizens? Could he mind trick them into believeing he is innocent? If the only persons who could withstand his mind trick were force users, it's a little one sided. No doubt a jury of Jedi would convict him.

If the spoilers are accurate, Mace did the only thing he could do. There would be no jury; one of the parties in that room would die that day.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2005-03-11 04:19pm

There's some incedent of Force user being convicted by the Jedi (since regular courts couldn't and/or wouldn't convict said person).

and isn't at least in US the jury members suppose to bee equal to defendent (so in this they would be Jedi).

Nick Lancaster · Post by **Nick Lancaster** » 2005-03-11 04:30pm

(I haven't seen the trailer yet.)

As for the populace going after Palpatine, not going to happen. What I gather from Obi-Wan's comments in AOTC, Palpatine is very savvy as far as PR and presenting a positive face to his actions. You also have to remember that there's literally nothing to accuse him of.

- Chancellor Finis Valorum failed a vote of confidence on his own merits. The people chose Palpatine to replace him.

- Even if Jar-Jar Binks was a simple-minded twat who got maneuvered into proposing emergency powers, the measure passed without much in the way of discussion.

- Communicating with the Separatists? Of course he has! "... my negotiations will not fail." He has every reason to communicate with them.

- Providing classified information to the Separatists? Prove it.

- Leading the Separatists? Based on what? Recorded meetings between Dooku and Palpatine? Or were those off-the-book negotiations?

The people will vote for perceived stability. Even if the Jedi said, "Hey, look, he's a Sith!" - Palpatine is the duly elected representative (hmm, this sounds oddly familiar) ... unless there's a law that says, "Sith may not hold public office."?

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Could Mace Windu and Friends actually convict Palpatine?

Could Mace Windu and Friends actually convict Palpatine?

People v. Palpatine