Could Mace Windu and Friends actually convict Palpatine?

[Steven Snyder]

What crime does Mace think he's going to arrest Palpatine for? Being a Sith Lord? I'm assuming he doesn't know about Palpatine being behind the seperatists, so, what crime has he committed?

To me it seems like the ones in need of arrest are the jedi in that scene. They've almost certainly broken into the residence of the Head of State and murdered his guards because he has a different religion. Seems like Palpatine has a perfectly good right to self defence there.

NecronLord and I really don't seem to agree on much, but I agree with this. The Jedi were way-the-hell out of line by trying to arrest the Supreme Chancellor.

[NecronLord]

Question: Could Palpatine be tried by ordinary citizens?

The Republic knows about Yalismiri. Hold the trial on the Yalismiri planet, and he's just a (probably) frightened old man, they could supress Luke Skywalker, the most powerful force user to ever live, they can supress him. And they could contract the jedi to bring him there.

The Jedi would be much better going public with what they have. Rather than charging in, without say, a warrant, or any form of judicial oversight, and arresting him, they could have preempted any effort he made to present their actions in a poor light.

You also have to remember that there's literally nothing to accuse him of.

....

The people will vote for perceived stability. Even if the Jedi said, "Hey, look, he's a Sith!" - Palpatine is the duly elected representative (hmm, this sounds oddly familiar) ... unless there's a law that says, "Sith may not hold public office."?

That's entirely the point. Their actions are just condensed arrogance.

And there might be such a law. "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party" - Sound familiar?

[Lord Woodlouse]

I'd be surprised if there was NOT a law forbidding the Sith from holding public office. There are times in history when they were effectively two nation-states at war, afterall.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The Sith aren't just a religion you fucking idiot. Neo-Nazis are banned in Germany. Same idea.

[Illuminatus Primus]

He's the head/leader of the Sepratist's, what more do you need?

Could they actually prove this in a fair trial, with witnesses who aren't jedi?

You are stupid. The goal of this religion is the destruction of the state in power. Do you think it would be legal to join a religion in the U.S. which had it stated as part of its central dogma to conspire to overthrow the federal government? The crime is treason, not theological impurity.

[NecronLord]

And do they have evidence of this treason? Other than that he owns a lightsabre? Which was basically the question.

And no, I'm fairly sure the aim of the Sith is power, not the destruction of the Republic. Note that Palpatine didn't destroy the Republic. At worst he renamed it and crushed civil rights.

[Illuminatus Primus]

The first question is beneath contempt because it demands a standard of evidence obviously unattainable right now.

And no, I'm fairly sure the aim of the Sith is power, not the destruction of the Republic.

Actually, every single war they had had the goal of destroying the Republic.

[NecronLord]

The first question is beneath contempt because it demands a standard of evidence obviously unattainable right now.

Half the people on this board have practically seen the film with the amount of spoilers they've gorged themselves on. Hell, even I've seen a plot summary with goddamn screencaps. The question about this being more foolish Jedi arrogance was directed at them. If you are not one of them, kindly shut your hole.

Actually, every single war they had had the goal of destroying the Republic.

1 - I am not an expert on the ultra-apocrythal constantly-changing sith wars of 1383 years BBY or any such thing. More to the point, given my limited knowledge, in at least one of these numerous Sith Wars the Sith were attacked by the Republic. Let's not mention that Palpatine did not destroy the republic, so, no, it was not his motive to do so. He took it over and installed himself as a dictator.

The Sith are about power, not "RAR! DESTOY TEH RUPUBLIC!"

[Illuminatus Primus]

Half the people on this board have practically seen half the film with the amount of spoilers out there. The question was directed at them. If you are not one of them, kindly shut your hole.

I have seen that much of the spoilers, which is why I affirmed that it was a stupid question that you shouldn't have asked.

1 - I am not an expert on the ultra-apocrythal constantly-changing sith wars of 1383 years BBY or any such thing.

I couldn't give a fuck what you do or do not know. They are canonical insofar that they do not directly and explicitly contradict George Lucas' saga of films and screenplays.

More to the point, given my limited knowledge, in at least one of these numerous Sith Wars the Sith were attacked by the Republic.

Great Hyperspace War - started by Sith

Great Sith War - started by Sith

Second Sith War - started by Sith

Third Sith War - resurgance of violence from previous war

Fourth Sith War - started by Sith

Let's not mention that Palpatine did not destroy the republic, so, no, it was not his motive to do so. He took it over and installed himself as a dictator.

He destroyed the state constitutionally defined as the Galactic Republic by superceding it with the Galactic Empire. And besides, since this is all about your "hypothetical court" thing, what he did later is fucking irrelevent. The status of the Sith religion was already established within the Republic. Certainly if the Germans use the exploitive tendencies of Scientology to ban it, one could maybe empathize with the Republic's ban on the Sith.

[VT-16]

And do they have evidence of this treason? Other than that he owns a lightsabre? Which was basically the question.

There is a witness to Palpatine openly saying he´s a Sith Lord, Anakin Skywalker. He runs off to contact the Jedi Order after hearing this and is told to stay in the Temple. I´m not sure if his testimony would be accepted as evidence, though.

And the Sith would most definitely be outlawed in the Republic, even if the laws are ancient and near forgotten. This sect waged galactic scale wars and were the cause of the last war that saw the re-creation of the Republic. They´re responsible for the countless suffering endured by all the worlds touched by the various wars over the eons and are now accused of being the instigators of yet another galactic scale war.

The risk of having one of their members be the Chancellor himself should outway any legal problems, since the Jedi are indeed guardians of peace and justice and have fought the Sith on countless occations before, with support from the Republic citizenry.

You also seem to ignore the whole point that the Sith kept themselves secret. If their organization was legal in the Republic, they wouldn´t need to hide all this time.

[Lord Revan]

Great Hyperspace War - started by Sith

Great Sith War - started by Sith

Second Sith War - started by Sith

Third Sith War - resurgance of violence from previous war

Fourth Sith War - started by Sith

are second and third Sith wars the KOTOR era sith wars? I just want know.

[Nick Lancaster]

And there might be such a law. "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party" - Sound familiar?

Except it's a tomato surprise to pull that out of the hat now.

And how would the Jedi prove it?

"Isn't it true that you own a lightsaber?"
"Isn't it true that you have a high midichlorian count?"

And a little tap-dance by Palpatine could turn it right around at the Jedi again - surely, not everyone becomes a Jedi Knight, but do they all become support staff? Do they leave the Order (and the Order does not advertise its failures)?

Perhaps the Jedi are hiding something, like the fact they kill candidates who turn to the Dark Side ...

[Darth Wong]

This thread revolves around questions of the legal structure of the Republic and what the Sith knew about Palpatine's behaviour that may not be resolvable until we know more about this movie.

What if they discovered that Palpatine has been conspiring with Count Dooku since the beginning? That would make him an accomplice to the Separatist movement. It would be high treason.

[Tychu]

dosent the trailer show that scene were mace says to Palpatine
"Chancelor you are under arrest"

and Palpatine responds something of "of what grounds?"
im sure they can, i mean if the Chancelor couldnt be arrested in any time of the Republic i dont think there would have beena republic to long

[Lone_Prodigy]

and Palpatine responds something of "of what grounds?"

No, he says "Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?" and they with a flick of his wrist he sends a lightsaber down his sleeve into his hand and he lunges forward, saber ignited into the midst of the Jedi. Mace shifts into a defensive stance to face the Supreme Chancellor who is hunched over with his lightsaber pointing towards Kit Fisto.

[Stark]

Spoiler warning? You know, some people HATE shit like that.

It IS a silly question though. The Sith aren't a religion, they're an organisation. He wouldn't be arrested for knowing Sith-y shit, but for treason to the Republic.

[NecronLord]

What if they discovered that Palpatine has been conspiring with Count Dooku since the beginning? That would make him an accomplice to the Separatist movement. It would be high treason.

Of course he is. The question is whether they could get a conviction in 1- The useless Republic courts Answer being of course, no. or even 2- An impartial court, or whether they're just being arrogant and foolish as Yoda suggested in AotC, and charging in to arrest him without having a hope in hell of making it stick.

[NecronLord]

I have seen that much of the spoilers, which is why I affirmed that it was a stupid question that you shouldn't have asked.

Spoilers away Unfortunately, you are wrong. They are indeed acting without thinking it through, as they can't really arrest him, and manage to get themselves killed because of their terminal arrogance.

[Vympel]

Ok, spoiler time

According to spoilers, Anakin is the one who informs the Jedi of Palpatine's nature. Given that he is obviously the only Sith Lord, that makes him responsible for everything that happened since TPM. This also give the Jedi a witness.

[CJvR]

I think the question of evidence able to hold in court is irrelevant. The immediate threat is having Palpatine as boss of the Republic - as long as that situation isn't changed nothing else matters. Once he is removed from that position of power he can either be tried, if the evidence are strong enough, or quietly murdered if they aren't. The Jedi had little options other than attempting a coup.

[NecronLord]

Yep. Though why they bothered to stand there and let him arm himself, rather than just running through the door and attacking him is part of the point. The impracticality and arrogance of their pretention of being cops.

[Vympel]

Yep. Though why they bothered to stand there and let him arm himself, rather than just running through the door and attacking him is part of the point. The impracticality and arrogance of their pretention of being cops.

I don't see how they could really stop him arming himself. The lightsabre is up his sleeve, and he's a Sith Lord. They couldn't keep his weapon from him even if they tried. They knew what was going to go down, hence igniting their lightsabres.

[NecronLord]

I don't see how they could really stop him arming himself. The lightsabre is up his sleeve, and he's a Sith Lord. They couldn't keep his weapon from him even if they tried. They knew what was going to go down, hence igniting their lightsabres.

Allow me to rephrase.

Rush through the door and go for all out aggression on his evil sith ass instead of posing and telling he's under arrest.

[CJvR]

If you have spent a thousand generations as police officers I suspect it will ba a hard habit to overcome.

[NecronLord]

If you have spent a thousand generations as police officers I suspect it will ba a hard habit to overcome.

Yes.

Though they have been playing soldier for a few years too.