Moderator: Vympel
The weird thing is, we know it's supposed to be Clone Wars. Meaning 'more than one'. So far the PT has clearly depicted just the one war.Crown wrote:Personally that's the image I had in my mind too from Obi-Wan's spiel in ANH about the Clone wars.
What's weird is that he keeps making claims such as this (from the ARC-170 thread):Vympel wrote:As for "the EU is ignored" ... the EU hardly deals with the PT era, and for good reason- George Lucas didn't want EU stories interfering with that part of the continuity. It's his story to tell and he has never and will never have his creativity restricted by the work of his licensees. So where does this claim come from?
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Dude, there was virtually nothing mentioned about the Clone Wars before the Prequel Trilogy came around because Lucasfilm had a bloody gag order concerning that era...Kartr_Kana wrote:I can by that, but it still does not make me happy that GL is really screwing with all previous mentions of the clone wars.
Sometimes, subtle propaganda is superior to blatant propaganda in that people are less likely to suspect it as such. If it turns out, as an example, that the OT was propaganda, it succeeded on you for one. You don't feel it is propaganda because it isn't blatant enough, so you ingest it as truth, and in doing so you ingested their bias. That's way better than them giving you a piece of stronger propaganda, but one that you won't ingest.EU novels hint at Imperial Propaganda - the Death Star was really a Rebel invention, and the Emperor himself gave his life to stop their diabolical plot. But again, if that's the baseline level of Imperial media, the OT is a crappy job of countering it.
If you are seriously using "It's propaganda because it worked on you" as proof that it is propaganda, I must say that it is possibly the most retarded argument I have heard thus far in my time on this board.Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Sometimes, subtle propaganda is superior to blatant propaganda in that people are less likely to suspect it as such. If it turns out, as an example, that the OT was propaganda, it succeeded on you for one. You don't feel it is propaganda because it isn't blatant enough, so you ingest it as truth, and in doing so you ingested their bias. That's way better than them giving you a piece of stronger propaganda, but one that you won't ingest.
And your point is? Yes, 2 is more plausible, but it's one that happened. You have yet to prove that what the movies show is actual propaganda.As an aside, The Emperor's story was actually quite unblatant. Compare the two versions of Endor:
1) An elite Imperial Fleet and an elite ground battalion with a substantial firepower superiority somehow fell to a bunch of teddy bears and a bunch of converted liners that is short of supplies (read: short on such niceties as live weapons training).
2) The traitorous Rebels create a threat to the Empire and set up a numerically superior fleet (numerical superiority - ever the stereotypical hallmark of the villain). Elite Imperial forces use their superior training to destroy the enemy, but Palpy gave his life somewhere in the process.
While 1 was the truth, really, as an Imperial citizen, I'd find 2 much more plausible than 1, all else being even.
I think he's talking about "what if..." situation.Captain Cyran wrote:snip
Lord Revan got it right, and you wrong. Another way of phrasing my point might be to say "If it was propaganda, it was darn skilful, because most people would not have suspected it was."Captain Cyran wrote:If you are seriously using "It's propaganda because it worked on you" as proof that it is propaganda, I must say that it is possibly the most retarded argument I have heard thus far in my time on this board.
Yes, if it was propaganda, for some insane pot smoking reason, yes, it would be good...Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:Lord Revan got it right, and you wrong. Another way of phrasing my point might be to say "If it was propaganda, it was darn skilful, because most people would not have suspected it was."Captain Cyran wrote:If you are seriously using "It's propaganda because it worked on you" as proof that it is propaganda, I must say that it is possibly the most retarded argument I have heard thus far in my time on this board.
At a guess he's refering to one line in the TTT where they mention 'clone masters' unleashing clones on the galaxy hence; The Clone War.
Same for me I just thought about it to much and it upset me.Personally that's the image I had in my mind too from Obi-Wan's spiel in ANH about the Clone wars.
Well we do not know how much (of very little we got) is Imperial misinformation and the Jedi while somewhat out touch with the common man are far from what true propaganga depic them to be they're Heroes they just need a kick in proverbial butt to do anything. And finally Darth Sidious is not a public figure (Palpatine has kept that connection secrect from everybody but his closest allies), if we use the SOD we should think that EU is incorrect (by intent or by accident) and the films correct in case ot a counterdiction (not the other way around).Kartr_Kana wrote:snip
assuming they don't lie intentionally, also unless very high up command chain of the Republic or CIS their POV isn't so good no matter how obsessed they're information. Also in PT EU there's mad Jedi (one being even a Jedi council member). If go by the SOD the movies are considered either something see with our own eyes or documentary "filmed" when happen (AKA truth and nothin but the truth but nessery the whole truth(for example if something isn't in the movies it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.)) so this couterdicted by the EU , the EU loses or must explained. So Talon Karrde either lied on purpose (what ever that purpose was is irrelevant) or was wrong (possible as he's only human).Kartr_Kana wrote:You forget that Talon Karrde inhereted his organization from Jorjj Car'das who survived the Clone Wars and a mad Jedi. The same Jorjj Car'das who is obssesed by information so I think that we can assume that what he and Karrde have to say is acurrate.
since only stuf that is directly counterdicked by higher canon is considered incorrect, the rest is is C-level canon. (think about it this way if you a non propaganga film about WWII filmed during that era and read about the same incident from a history book would conclude that the book was correct and the incorrect and if not so would conclude that whole book was full of shit or that description of that event was incorrect.)Kartr_Kana wrote:But could these eye-witnesses be correct and the PT propaganda? This is my whole point the PT is not maintaining continuity with the EU. Granted a lot of the EU sucks but the best stuff as in the TT is being ignored and called incorrect. Can these novels and the other good ones in the EU, novels/Comics/computer games/etc. that were approved by GL and his people info that has made its way into the Databank at Starwars.com, can this be discredited so quickly just because the movies contradict them?
BTW does any body know Obi-wans age in TPM and ANH?
I can say it finnish if you wantKartr_Kana wrote:Lord Revan I could not understand what you were saying.
, but for in english and some what shorter. If EU is counterdicted by higher canon, only those parts that counterdict (from the EU source) become N-level canon (AKA non canon) the rest is still C-level canon.
Yes. Them's the rules.Kartr_Kana wrote:Can these novels and the other good ones in the EU, novels/Comics/computer games/etc. that were approved by GL and his people info that has made its way into the Databank at Starwars.com, can this be discredited so quickly just because the movies contradict them?
Except you're using Yoda's grammer as a marker. On top of that the emphasis was "Begun this Clone War has."Kartr_Kana wrote:begun this clone war has. this implies more then one.
I don't see where you are getting that he is implying that there have been Clone Wars before this. I repeat, his emphasis was "Begun this Clone War has." Now I haven't read the novels which may say differently, but I definately do not see any extrapolation of that quote to mean that there have been multiple Clone Wars.Kartr_Kana wrote:Yes "begun this clone war has". Yoda knows it is a Clone War he implies that there has been others and it sounds to me like this is the first clone war the Republic has had to fight, but not the first that has been fought.
